Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't agree with settlements building if that's what you mean. Totally condemn it and against it. But there is a ton of stuff I don't like in that region. I think you have to place it in the perspective of the violence and upheaval in the region. If Israel stopped building settlements the rockets from Gaza wouldn't just stop. I'd love to see my theory tested though, honestly. Most people just want peace.

Israel withdrew settlements from Gaza in 2005 - and rocket fire actually increased in the years to come.

I have no doubt that, if Israel were to do the same in the West Bank, we'd see the same outcome - just on a much larger scale.

namloc1980

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I take your point. But it doesn't look great.

Also like everything we don't know what happened before it started.

Absolutely but it was presented on the thread as anti-Jewish aggression which is not what is on the video we can see.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on now! That's two groups of people clearly agitated and up for a fight. There could have been a hundred punches thrown in either direction before your man holding the camera clicked the record button. The first punch "that you saw thrown" might be a very different thing.

But it was presented to the thread as anti-Jewish aggression when that is not at all what the video shows - why aren't you calling out the poster who linked to this video claiming anti-jewish aggression??

Edit: in fact at the end of the video the guy holding the Israel flag is the one who get arrested - because the threw the first punch and kicked it off.

tayto lover

biko wrote: »

Aggression is spreading

https://twitter.com/michaldivon/status/1395145296741650437?s=20

Thanks for that Biko.

Hardly a punch thrown but its the first time I actually saw Israelis retreating because the Palestinian protesters had more power than them. Kind of gave me a little thrill.

thomas 123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So two (presumably) Jewish guys are being threatened and harassed by a gang of 20-30 people who - without the police being present - would have perhaps been killed.

But all that matters is blaming the two guys being threatened and the gang of 20-30 are euphemistically referred to as "the other side".

What a malfunctioned moral compass.

A person who is Jew has been attacked - terrible

Palastinians bombed to bits, thrown out of their homes, attacked in prayer - “collateral damage”

Who are you to question anyone’s morals?

I condone no violence on any party.

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

Hate that phrase.

Anyone who deliberately kills/terrorizes civilians for wider political-ideological purposes is a terrorist or is, at the very least, committing a 'terrorist act'.

This idea that terrorism is somehow a subjective matter is bunkum.

In other words, you can be a terrorist but still be considered a fighter for freedom. The former is objective, the latter is subjective.

They are mutually exclusive descriptions.

Do you agree on that basis that Jewish militants operating in the Palestine Mandate in the 1940s were terrorists?

thomas 123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Israel withdrew settlements from Gaza in 2005 - and rocket fire actually increased in the years to come.

I have no doubt that, if Israel were to do the same in the West Bank, we'd see the same outcome - just on a much larger scale.

Israel knew it wouldn’t win in Gaza, it had 7000 settlers there. If they thought they could settle it they would have.

It has 700k in the West Bank, a much less densely populated place.

thomas 123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hate that phrase.

Anyone who deliberately kills/terrorizes civilians for wider political-ideological purposes is a terrorist or is, at the very least, committing a 'terrorist act'.

This idea that terrorism is somehow a subjective matter is bunkum.

In other words, you can be a terrorist but still be considered a fighter for freedom. The former is objective, the latter is subjective.

They are mutually exclusive descriptions.

Are the actions of the IDF in Gaza a terrorist act then?

What about what happened in the al asqa mosque? Terrorist also by your definition?

paulaa

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah ok, the 'middle east' doesn't exist then, it's just made up. Ok right.
Cyprus still isn't part of the made up middle East then.

Half of the island of Cyprus is Turkish

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Do you agree on that basis that Jewish militants operating in the Palestine Mandate in the 1940s were terrorists?

Both sides were engaged in war.

And both sides had auxiliary terrorist forces.

paulaa

paulaa wrote: »

Half of the island of Cyprus is Turkish

I'm well aware of that thanks.

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

Both sides were engaged in war.

And both sides had auxiliary terrorist forces.

Stop trying to deflect. Were Jewish militants such as the Haganah terrorist organisations? They targeted civilians and were the primary factor behind the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Were they terrorists or not?

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Stop trying to deflect. Were Jewish militants such as the Haganah terrorist organisations? They targeted civilians and were the primary factor behind the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Were they terrorists or not?

I've answered your question - but did so with balance, something which is lacking in your line of questioning.

paulaa

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't agree with settlements building if that's what you mean. Totally condemn it and against it. But there is a ton of stuff I don't like in that region. I think you have to place it in the perspective of the violence and upheaval in the region. If Israel stopped building settlements the rockets from Gaza wouldn't just stop. I'd love to see my theory tested though, honestly. Most people just want peace.

The rockets in Gaza are a result of the 14 year old siege on the enclave. 2 million people living in squalor, unable to leave because Israel has them as prisoners. A Warsaw ghetto in the ME. They are a cry for help so the rest of the world won't forget them and the appalling conditions they have to live under

Israel determines what they can eat and every facet of their lives. Israel decides who lives and dies when Palestinians are waiting at checkpoints to get out of the strip for medical attention. Many people have died at those checkpoints because Israel refused to let them out.

That is only a fraction of the atrocities Israel is daily committing against the Gazan people, not to mention the violence, theft and discrimination and death they heap on the people of the West Bank, Christian and Muslim Palestinians

Igotadose

paulaa wrote: »

The rockets in Gaza are a result of the 14 year old siege on the enclave. 2 million people living in squalor, unable to leave because Israel has them as prisoners. A Warsaw ghetto in the ME. They are a cry for help so the rest of the world won't forget them and the appalling conditions they have to live under

Israel determines what they can eat and every facet of their lives. Israel decides who lives and dies when Palestinians are waiting at checkpoints to get out of the strip for medical attention. Many people have died at those checkpoints because Israel refused to let them out.

That is only a fraction of the atrocities Israel is daily committing against the Gazan people, not to mention the violence, theft and discrimination and death they heap on the people of the West Bank.

O.K. so rockets forever right? Because when Israel withdrew in 2005 and let the Gazans decide their fate, they voted in Hamas and started launching rockets.

Which didn't happen in the West Bank, oddly enough.

paulaa

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm well aware of that thanks.

You're welcome. So you know then that Turkey, including half the island of Cyprus is in the Middle East .

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

I've answered your question - but did so with balance, something which is lacking in your line of questioning.

So you agree they were terrorists. And those terrorist organisations became the IDF when it was founded in 1948.

I must laugh at your claim of "balance". Hilarious in the contact of your posts on this thread which have been far far from balanced.

paulaa

Igotadose wrote: »

O.K. so rockets forever right? Because when Israel withdrew in 2005 and let the Gazans decide their fate, they voted in Hamas and started launching rockets.

Which didn't happen in the West Bank, oddly enough.

Rockets, bombs, white phosporous etc etc are not right no matter who uses them.

When the settlers were taken out of Gaza and given already stolen land and new properties in the West Bank, Israel shut the borders of Gaza and created the largest open air prison in the world. They frequently tested new weaponry on the captives in Gaza and later sold the weapons at Arms Fairs around the world with the advertising slogan "Field Tested". They made millions off the backs of men, women and children they had slaughtered in Gaza.

BluePlanet

Look the reason that Cyprus is "not in the Middle East" has nothing to do with culture or history nor proximity nor continental plates.

Its entirely because having Cyprus within the ME would contradict the a pro-Israel propaganda point about Israel being the 'most democracratic, best human rights, greatest acountability etc of anybody in the region'.

seamus

Imagine being so naive to think that Israel withdrew from Gaza and left the region free to decide its own fate.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Thanks for that Biko.

Hardly a punch thrown but its the first time I actually saw Israelis retreating because the Palestinian protesters had more power than them. Kind of gave me a little thrill.

I sometimes touch myself when I see a couple of Jews being attacked by a mob, even though those two Jews clearly provoked that large group of Palestinian supporters.

Igotadose

seamus wrote: »

Imagine being so naive to think that Israel withdrew from Gaza and left the region free to decide its own fate.

You can look it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

Israel withdrew from Gaza. Fact.

namloc1980

Igotadose wrote: »

You can look it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

Israel withdrew from Gaza. Fact.

We know it happened but your link outlines the reasons for it from an Israeli government point of view and it wasn't some grand peacuful gesture:

"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress. That is exactly what happened. You know, the term `peace process' is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it's the return of refugees, it's the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen.... what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did"

seamus

Igotadose wrote: »

You can look it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

Israel withdrew from Gaza. Fact.

So, you're saying that since 2005 the residents of Gaza have been free to leave and enter the country without interference from other countries, and the government have been free to import and export everything they need? Including but not limited to weapons and industrials chemicals?

You know, things that other free sovereign nations are able to do?

Timberrrrrrrr

seamus wrote: »

So, you're saying that since 2005 the residents of Gaza have been free to leave and enter the country without interference from other countries, and the government have been free to import and export everything they need? Including but not limited to weapons and industrials chemicals?

You know, things that other free sovereign nations are able to do?

They can't even fish off thier own coast....shìt kids playing football on a beach have been blown up but hey Israel is the bestest country in the region (just don't mention the murderers)

wes

Another settler terror attack:
Palestinian worker stabbed, critically wounded by settler fanatics in Holon


These attacks are very common in the West Bank, even when Palestinians aren't engaged in violence they will be attacked.

Timberrrrrrrr

wes wrote: »

Another settler terror attack:
Palestinian worker stabbed, critically wounded by settler fanatics in Holon


These attacks are very common in the West Bank, even when Palestinians aren't engaged in violence they will be attacked.

But but but a pro Palestinian allegedly attacked a Jewish person in New York and we know that's more shocking than this.

If it had been a Palestinian doing the stabbing they would be calling it a terrorist attack and posting "religion of peace strikes again"

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

Look the reason that Cyprus is "not in the Middle East" has nothing to do with culture or history nor proximity nor continental plates.

Its entirely because having Cyprus within the ME would contradict the a pro-Israel propaganda point about Israel being the 'most democracratic, best human rights, greatest acountability etc of anybody in the region'.

Cyprus is in the EU and uses the Euro as its currency. That's the reason people don't associate it with the Middle East.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

They can't even fish off thier own coast....shìt kids playing football on a beach have been blown up but hey Israel is the bestest country in the region (just don't mention the murderers)

Does Israel do bad things? Yes.

Is it still the best and most tolerant country in the region? Also - yes.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does Israel do bad things? Yes.

Is it still the best and most tolerant country in the region? Also - yes.

Unless you're Palestinian, then you're treated less than human.

Israel...is it the only country since WW2 to use forced eugenics on women? What a "tolerant country" they are.