Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

wes

Overheal wrote: »

Sure they're fiercely hypocritical about cancel culture, why not ruin a young woman's life, that's the whole brand.

One of the common victims of being cancelled are people who support Palestinians. Peoples jobs etc can be put in danger for speaking out. The free speech brigade oddly enough no where to be seen.

tayto lover

Has anyone an updated list of Israeli products that we could boycott?

Mad_maxx

kildare lad wrote: »

Why though , there must be a reason they back them so much and give them billions in military aid every year.

combination of reasons

very strong israeli lobby

a key part of the GOP ( evangelicals ) who believe Israel must be protected so as to be there when Jesus returns

jewish vote is very important to the Democrats , always has been , media is heavily populated by jews , as is Wall St , finance and media are both very influential in politics

final and probably the most important reason is it suits america to have a strategically located ally in the region

Ireland has a very strong lobby in the U.S but its in the happeny place compared to the Israeli lobby in terms of influence

Mad_maxx

Odhinn wrote: »

Why not? The US supported Apartheid South Africa for decades.








The world (mostly pro-palestinian) can be vetoed by the US, or any permanent member of the UNSC.








Fatah in the WestBank don't indulge in "ugly violence" yet are subjected to just that by Israel, with ongoing annexation of Arab East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

how do the other permanent U.N security council members fare when it comes to resolutions , suspect China and Russia often back resolutions ? and France but do the UK mostly row in with the U.S ?

wes

tayto lover wrote: »

Has anyone an updated list of Israeli products that we could boycott?

Try the buycott app.

end of the road

eskimohunt wrote: »

Precisely.

Of course, 200 civilian deaths is dreadful, and even worse when you consider that many of these deaths were preventable had Hamas not planted these military installations in these areas.

Conversely, Israel could have - if they wanted and desired mass casualties - killed tens of thousands of people. It would be possible in a heartbeat, never mind 10-days.

But Israel didn't. And you have to ask the question: why not?

And the only answer is that Israel TRIED to minimize civilian deaths. Whilst it may not always be possible, that was and is their intention.

That much is abundantly clear.

israel targets civilian areas where there are no military installations, in fact areas with no military installations have been the most targeted.
israel are playing the long game with their ethnic cleansing and genocide, they don't need to simply do a mass slaughter and get the job done and it wouldn't be in their interests anyway.

Deleted User wrote: »

What would you do if you were Hamas tonight?

If it would be me, I'd be looking back at the catastrophic failure of violence, and looking towards a path to peace. This would involve no rockets, no stone throwing etc.

They need to give up the violence because it will never win. On the contrary, any moves towards violence will only result in another bombardment in 6-7 years time. These things are almost like World Cup cycles at this stage.

If they truly cared about their people, they would be wise to try and lead with responsibility for Palestinian as well as Israeli lives.

the thing is, hamas violence actually is winning in a way.
as time goes by, more and more people are wising up to what israel really is about.
the only stumbling block to actually effectively dealing with israel is america, but i can see it losing patients itself down the line.
israel needs to stop engaging in the actions that instigate hamas violence.
stop stealing land, stop expanding it's borders at will, stop colonization, stop stealing people's homes, stop engaging in genocide and ethnic cleansing, stop engaging in apartheid.

Deleted User wrote: »

If they gave up their arms an committed to purely peaceful means, there's no way the US could veto them forever. The world would have no reason not to support them. As it stands now, the ugly violence they are involved with does damage to:
a) their own people/infrastructure, by inviting retribution from Israel
b) the public relations of their cause. Even if they feel they have a righteous cause, nobody neutral can support a group that fires rockets hoping for maximum civilian casualties

at the moment the US will never go against israel regardless of what hamas would do.
the only way the US would not vito israel is if israel really annoyed them and they lost patients.
hamas violence has nothing to do with israel's actions, which are not in retaliation but are in being the aggresser so as to take over the territory and expand it's borders.
nobody specifically supports firing rockets, rather we know why it is being done.

Deleted User wrote: »

Because if we are led to believe that Israel are racist nazi bullies who want perpetual war, then surely giving them a reason for it is not in the Palestinians best interests. Starve the beast. Show the world that you will not stoop to the level of a monster. Show that you are virtuous and peaceful. It's the only hope that I can see.

Continuing on the present path will only lead to more death and destruction. Time to try something new.

the something new you are seeking to be tried has and is already tried in the west bank to the result of land theft.

Odhinn

tayto lover wrote: »

Has anyone an updated list of Israeli products that we could boycott?

https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott

Odhinn

Mad_maxx wrote: »

how do the other permanent U.N security council members fare when it comes to resolutions , suspect China and Russia often back resolutions ? and France but do the UK mostly row in with the U.S ?

Generally, yes.

cnocbui

wes wrote: »

Looks like a ceasefire will commence in a couple of hours. Good news.

It should be noted that Gaza will still be under siege, the occupation will not have ended, ethnic cleansing will continue, and that apartheid in Israel is not finished.

In other news an AP reporter was fired:
...
for being in a Student for Justice in Palestine in college, before her employment. Supporting Palestinians human rights is a fireable offense for the cowardly and racist AP, whose offices were bombed by Israel mere days ago.

Note the AP manager's surname announcing the chop.

cnocbui

tayto lover wrote: »

Has anyone an updated list of Israeli products that we could boycott?

Apple is really fond of buying Israeli startups and companies.

wes

Armenian Patriarchate Jerusalem condemns Jewish settler attack against clergy


Settler terrorists more than happy to attack Christian clergy as well it seems.

paulaa

cnocbui wrote: »

Speaking of Israelis stealing from Palestinians, it's the very foundation and guiding principle behind the state of Israel: https://israelpalestinenews.org/even...ieves-haaretz/

I knew a Palestinian, a businessman. He was one of several children scattered throughout the world. His parents and family were wealthy and owned a large house, and farm in Palestine with extensive orchards. A multi-generational existence extending well back in time.

Then along came the unspeakable British and their Balfour declaration. Zionists arrived and drove his family out of their valuable property, seizing it without compensatory payment, though many ardent zionists believe that never happened and they always paid for what they stole, something historians have proven was often not the case.

Not only did the zionists steal everything his family owned in terms of property, they also took control of the banks and stole all of their savings as well. the entire family was forced to flee their ancestral homeland with little more than the shirts on their backs.

And you have certain posters here saying, just turn the other cheek, don't make waves, you deserve all you get for being so aggressive.

The double standards of the Israel fans is sickening. No one is fooled by mealy mouthed statements uttered while whole neighbourhoods are being flattened and whole families slaughtered.

On another note,Israel has started confiscating Palestinian churches and church lands .

AMMAN: Palestinian religious leaders have called on Israel to allow the Latin Catholic Church to reclaim lands confiscated by Israel in the Jordan Valley.

Hanna Issa, secretary-general of the Islamic-Christian Commission in Support of Jerusalem and the Holy Sites, told Arab News that the turning of church-owned property to a military compound is a “violation of the laws of war.”

The commission said 267 dunums of land in the villages of Bardala and Tayseer in the Jordan Valley, being used for military purposes, are totally owned by the church. Catholic officials in Jerusalem and Amman were unavailable for comment."

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1412211/middle-east

Overheal

cnocbui wrote: »

Note the AP manager's surname announcing the chop.

?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Of course.

But does that justify Israel's body count? Children and women? Targeting civilians and civilian property?

Who's justifying Israelis body count?

There's no justification for targeting civilians. There are no good guys/bad guys in this war.

Would you agree there's no justification for Hamas targeting civilians?

So if its accepted they could kill more, but haven't, it follows there must have been some degree of restraint (for whatever reason - moral, international opprobrium , ally alienation etc.)

However, there's no evidence of any similar restraint from Hamas I'm aware of, they tried to kill as many as they could, but with less success.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

Whats your opinion on Israels ongoing annexation of Palestinian land, building of settlements etc?

It's illegal, morally repugnant, and wrong.
They should stop. Peace is unlikely if they persist.

Whats your opinion on Hamas firing rockets at Israeli civilians, are they legitimate targets, or is it wrong to fire unguided rockets at civilians?

Timberrrrrrrr

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

It's illegal, morally repugnant, and wrong.
They should stop. Peace is unlikely if they persist.

Whats your opinion on Hamas firing rockets at Israeli civilians, are they legitimate targets, or is it wrong to fire unguided rockets at civilians?

Who says they are firing at civilians?

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Who says they are firing at civilians?

They were unguided rockets launched at populated areas.

Are you really going to suggest there was an active targeting system , or smart technology on board a 500 buck rocket capable of distinguishing military from civilian installations.

Are you going to be that guy?

tayto lover

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

They were unguided rockets launched at populated areas.

Are you really going to suggest there was an active targeting system , or smart technology on board a 500 buck rocket capable of distinguishing military from civilian installations.

Are you going to be that guy?

The IDF were hiding in those areas so they were targeting them.

Purple is a Fruit

Yeah I agree Israel has to defend itself from Hamas attacks but people who don't acknowledge that the attacks can be completely disproportionate and claim they back Israel 100% just seem like sad edgelords. It's sociopathic to be genuinely that lacking in empathy towards children.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

The IDF were hiding in those areas so they were targeting them.

So you're saying they launched an unguided, inaccurate rocket at a settlement where IDF were hiding among civilians, hoping to kill a few soldiers.

Do you think that's an acceptable tactic?

tayto lover

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

So you're saying they launched an unguided, inaccurate rocket at a settlement where IDF were hiding among civilians, hoping to kill a few soldiers.

Do you think that's an acceptable tactic?

It’s the same excuse the Israelis gave. Same tactic too.
I didn’t think theirs was acceptable when over 200 were killed including more than 60 children.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

It’s the same excuse the Israelis gave. Same tactic too.
I didn’t think theirs was acceptable when over 200 were killed including more than 60 children.

Can you bring yourself to condemn it?

Surely if you're outraged by the Israelis doing it, and assuming all lives are equal, you must be disgusted at the indiscriminate targeting of Israeli civilians?

Timberrrrrrrr

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

They were unguided rockets launched at populated areas.

Are you really going to suggest there was an active targeting system , or smart technology on board a 500 buck rocket capable of distinguishing military from civilian installations.

Are you going to be that guy?

Those populated areas house IDF members, going by the IDF excuse its ok to target civilian areas if enemy combatants are in the vicinity, one of your fellow pro Israeli posters even said that dead kids = collateral damage.

tayto lover

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Can you bring yourself to condemn it?

Surely if you're outraged by the Israelis doing it, and assuming all lives are equal, you must be disgusted at the indiscriminate targeting of Israeli civilians?

Of course I condemn it. Everyone has. No violence is acceptable.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Those populated areas house IDF members, going by the IDF excuse its ok to target civilian areas if enemy combatants are in the vicinity, one of your fellow pro Israeli posters even said that dead kids = collateral damage.

So you're walking back that comments about targeting civilian populations.

I'll help you out here, it's wrong to attack civilian areas in the hope of hitting a target.
Whether Israeli or Palestinian.

I think its reasonable to say, given the lack of sophistication of these rockets, they had no idea what they might hit. Fired in hope.


You might point out where I've said I'm pro israel. Just because I have a different view point, doesnt make me "pro Israel"
Very cheap, lazy and shoddy fare.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Of course I condemn it. Everyone has. No violence is acceptable.

Good man, we're agreed on something so!

wes

A brilliant refutation of the immoral opposition to Palestinian right to return by Peter Beinart. It is a long read btw.

A Jewish case for Palestinian refugee return

An excerpt from the article:

Why is dreaming of return laudable for Jews but pathological for Palestinians? Asking the question does not imply that the two dreams are symmetrical. The Palestinian families that mourn cities such as Jaffa or Safed lived there recently, and remember intimate details about their lost homes. They experienced dispossession from Israel-Palestine. The Jews who for centuries afflicted themselves on Tisha B’Av – and those who created the Zionist movement in the late 19th century, in response to rising nationalism and antisemitism in Europe – only imagined it.

“You never stopped dreaming,” the Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish once told an Israeli interviewer. “But your dream was farther away in time and place … I have been an exile for only 50 years. My dream is vivid, fresh.” Darwish noted another crucial difference between the Jewish and Palestinian dispersions: “You created our exile, we didn’t create your exile.”

Its worth a read and gives some details on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, which it seem a lot of people are either unaware or choose to deny.

MikeOxsgreen

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

So you're walking back that comments about targeting civilian populations.

I'll help you out here, it's wrong to attack civilian areas in the hope of hitting a target.
Whether Israeli or Palestinian.

I think its reasonable to say, given the lack of sophistication of these rockets, they had no idea what they might hit. Fired in hope.


You might point out where I've said I'm pro israel. Just because I have a different view point, doesnt make me "pro Israel"
Very cheap, lazy and shoddy fare.

If you won't agree that Israel has no right to exist, then you're in favour of bombing Palestinian babies. That's just how it be, apparently.

markodaly

igCorcaigh wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gaza_report/status/1395457238559608835

I guess Hamas are waving the white flag.

wes

wes wrote: »

A brilliant refutation of the immoral opposition to Palestinian right to return by Peter Beinart. It is a long read btw.

A Jewish case for Palestinian refugee return




Its worth a read and gives some details on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, which it seem a lot of people are either unaware or choose to deny.

Good read