What’s the best diet for weight loss ?

Alf Veedersane

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Any opinions on fasting? 16-8 and 5-2 seem popular for weight loss.

I've even seem people espouse the benefits of occasional 48 and even 72 hour fasts for weight loss and other health benefits. They talk a lot about insulin reduction and autophagy as benefits of fasting.

It also helps people cut out the grazing late in the day.

Alf Veedersane

LeakyLime wrote: »

Yes highly simplistic. Breakfast cereal is just an example of how carbohydrates led to the obesity crisis we have today.

The current guidelines (with recommended intake about 55 - 60%) don't seem to be helping the current obesity crisis - we're getting heavier by the year. Carbs , which break down to sugar in our system, are highly addictive.

Eating too much is probably a more significant problem because a lot of people aren't active enough and have no idea of portion control.

event

Bananahands wrote: »

Ditching the carbs is crucial for weight loss, you have to look at the spuds, bread, pasta, porridge etc as bowls of sugar. Do this alone and you won’t feel so hungry and naturally eat what you need. I used a continuous blood glucose monitor for a month(freestyle Libre2) to gauge the effects of different carbs. Even the so called healthy carbs cause big spikes. This feedback loop worked for me and helped dodge temptation to eat sh!te. Have also ditched the beer, only drink red wine and whiskey now, again low sugar.

Ditching carbs is not crucial for weight loss. Thats just plain wrong.

LeakyLime

event wrote: »

Ditching carbs is not crucial for weight loss. Thats just plain wrong.

For a lot of people (not all), it is crucial for weight loss.

bb1234567

LeakyLime wrote: »

Yes highly simplistic. Breakfast cereal is just an example of how carbohydrates led to the obesity crisis we have today.

The current guidelines (with recommended intake about 55 - 60%) don't seem to be helping the current obesity crisis - we're getting heavier by the year. Carbs , which break down to sugar in our system, are highly addictive.

Yes, so the issue is restraint. Not the fact that what they are eating are carbohydrates.

BabysCoffee

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Someone go tell the athletes who have carbs that they are doing it wrong

Professor Noakes did that
https://www.dietdoctor.com/professor-noakes-supported-high-carb-2

LeakyLime

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Eating too much is probably a more significant problem because a lot of people aren't active enough and have no idea of portion control.

Exercise is very important for overall health, but when it comes to weight loss, what you eat is what counts.

Portion control is difficult in a world filled with delicious carbs and sugars, that as the rush of glucose is addictive.

LeakyLime

bb1234567 wrote: »

Yes, so the issue is restraint. Not the fact that what they are eating are carbohydrates.

This issue is carbs are highly addictive, increase insulin, blood sugar levels, and prevent fat from being mobilised and used for energy.

bb1234567

LeakyLime wrote: »

This issue is carbs are highly addictive, increase insulin, blood sugar levels, and prevent fat from being mobilised and used for energy.

That's only an issue if you find carbs addictive.Which many of us do not, at all. It's a personal problem if you find carbs addictive. So therefore, carbs are not the inherent issue.And ,they don't prevent that, maybe they are less optimal, but they don't prevent it, otherwise there wouldn't be anyone on high carb diets with low body fat, which of course there are.

Alf Veedersane

LeakyLime wrote: »

Exercise is very important for overall health, but when it comes to weight loss, what you eat is what counts.

Portion control is difficult in a world filled with delicious carbs and sugars, that as the rush of glucose is addictive.

That doesn't mean carbs are the issue.

It means shítty, highly palatable food is the problem.

Alf Veedersane

BabysCoffee wrote: »

Professor Noakes did that
https://www.dietdoctor.com/professor-noakes-supported-high-carb-2

Paywall but I'm not necessarily talking about high carb.

Noakes also said, on Sigma Nutrition, that carbs are not fattening nor are they the primary driver of insulin resistance.

LeakyLime

bb1234567 wrote: »

That's only an issue if you find carbs addictive.Which many of us do not, at all. So therefore, carbs are not the inherent issue.And ,they don't prevent that, maybe they are less optimal, but they don't prevent it, otherwise there wouldn't be anyone on high carb diets with low body fat, which of course there are.

Yes I think it comes down to the person. The calories in, calories out really doesn't work for everyone, obviously people are on diets their whole lives and can't lose weight or if they do can't keep it off.

It can be an uphill battle with carbs, due to addiction essentially, and coming off them could be the simplest option for beating obesity for many.

bladespin

LeakyLime wrote: »

Yes I think it comes down to the person. The calories in, calories out really doesn't work for everyone, obviously people are on diets their whole lives and can't lose weight or if they do can't keep it off.

It can be an uphill battle with carbs, due to addiction essentially, and coming off them could be the simplest option for beating obesity for many.

Doesn’t cutting your card intake just reduce your calorie intake? Which would essentially equate to cals in vs out????

Carb control, I have found is the most effective way, for sure.

And, unfortunately you are absolutely right about beer Nothing frustrated weight loss more for me, though I do partake.

ILoveYourVibes

Bananahands wrote: »

Ditching the carbs is crucial for weight loss, you have to look at the spuds, bread, pasta, porridge etc as bowls of sugar. Do this alone and you won’t feel so hungry and naturally eat what you need. I used a continuous blood glucose monitor for a month(freestyle Libre2) to gauge the effects of different carbs. Even the so called healthy carbs cause big spikes. This feedback loop worked for me and helped dodge temptation to eat sh!te. Have also ditched the beer, only drink red wine and whiskey now, again low sugar.

That is YOU and YOUR body.

Obviously low carb is best for you specifically. That is definitely not the case for everyone.

I know people who have felt **** on low carb diets. I know people who have had really serious health issues from them.

I also know people who thrived on them. I even know people who can't eat vegetables because of stomach issues. They can literally only eat meat. I know people who can't eat any meat because they can't digest it or it gives them high iron.

Not everyone gets spikes from healthy carbs. I certainly don't. And this also has been measured for me IN A HOSPITAL.

Also not everyone is needing to lose weight .i dont...and if your diet works at one point you won't either. More people need to look at that. Some people have a mindset of perpetual weight loss. Which is impossible and they can't sustain ..so they fall off. Or they lose too much weight and become obsessive about diet.

What makes one person hungry ....doesn't do the same to another. Nothing in partic makes me hungry ....except being hungry. Not everyone has a big appetite either.

Everyone has to find a way of eating that works for them.

I am not saying you are wrong ..or your advice is not valuable. I am saying it's right in many cases but not all.

Also super low blood sugar is not healthy either. You should never have low blood sugar. You should have normal levels.

A diet that works fantastically for someone else may not work for you.


China consumes the most carbs per person in the world. Yet obesity in the west is worse.

Its because we eat junk that is processed calorie dense and have grown used to it and we move less. And we get bigger YOUNGER. Its harder to reset the body and habits.

El_Duderino 09

bladespin wrote: »

Doesn’t cutting your card intake just reduce your calorie intake? Which would essentially equate to cals in vs out????

Carb control, I have found is the most effective way, for sure.

And, unfortunately you are absolutely right about beer Nothing frustrated weight loss more for me, though I do partake.

You're not wrong but there's a bit more to it when you factor in how carbs affect your insulin. Sugar on its own spikes insulin. So refined carbs like white bread, can spike insulin. And spiked insulin causes you to feel hungry so you're more likely to snack or graze or generally increase you calories. Then it's about calories in vs calories out.

Second layer is that carbs mixed with fiber reduces insulin spikes. So something like porridge is better than white bread because porridge has about 8% fiber.

Third layer, carbs have different effects on different people. 2 people eat the same thing and they have different insulin responses because (no great surprise) people are different. Interesting show on BBC with this experiment recently.

So for some people, cutting out carbs is a great approach probably because carbs spike their insulin and makes them feel hungrier and more likely to eat more calories. Other people's insulin response isn't as sensitive to carbs and cutting out carbs had no real benefit to them.

Beechwoodspark

LeakyLime wrote: »

Thanks for sharing - that is very interesting.


I hope you have found a diet that works for you since.



Beer, unfortunately, has to go when you're doing keto. It's the worst alcoholic beverage carbs-wise. By continuing to drink it, you probably worsened the cravings.


Low-carb diets are used to treat more and more illnesses e.g. epilepsy, PCOS, diabetes, symptoms of menopause, etc, and they are effective.



And it's not just Taubes though, there are loads of doctors and scientists advocating for a low-carb diet.



I'm still eating most fruit (not the super sweet ones like banana and grapes) and veg so not strict keto myself - will see how it goes. I'm very open to it. It's not like the prevailing nutritional guidelines haven't been proven wrong in the past! (margarine, eggs?)

Yeah, as i said in my post, beer was the only “indulgence” I had on the diet.

had approx 1 can per evening and maybe 2 on a sat. Usually one of the lagers or sometimes Guinness.

Overall after the initial enthusiastic novelty phase

I found the diet quite restrictive to be honest and this was my only real “indulgence” on it

The keto diet experts would recommend giving up beer and going for vodka or whiskey etc but I was never a big spirits fan and it didn’t sit right with me.

I compromised a few weeks into the diet where I would have g and t with slimline tonic when out and not beer but I’d 100% prefer the cold pint over the g and t. Which I was doing just out of a sense of compromise.

Mellor

Bananahands wrote: »

Eat less move more is too simplistic and all calories are not equal.

No not all calories are equal. There
s more nutrition in 500 calories of fresh food than 500 cals of sugar.

However that has nothing to do with weight loss. In order to burn body fat, there must be a calories deficit.

Carbs are the only macro not essential to sustain humans. If you are addicted to sugar I get it may be hard to cut carbs out but if they make up a substantial portion of your diet you are on a road to nowhere. Evolutionarily we couldn’t have made it this far with such a reliance on carbs.
I’ve cut carbs drastically and train fasted every other morning at 6.30, don’t eat till 12.00. None of the sugar crash hunger pangs I used to get and no loss of energy, even slightly better tbh. I get back from a 40mile cycle and no longer feel like clearing the larder, and that was after coffee buns and jelly babies! nutritional science is not in agreement with the essential carbs theory, Google a few podcasts on the subject.

Just because carbs are not essential. They doesn't mean that cutting them out is essential for weight loss.

KEto suits me when cutting. But saying keto/low carb is required is simply wrong.

LeakyLime wrote: »

Actually the science is changing rapidly and more and more studies are leaning towards weight gain being hormonal, not calories in, calories out.

Can you give an example where a hormonal factors causes weight loss/gain in spite of calories in/calories out.

e.g. women when they hit menopause and undergo huge hormonal changes put on weight while eating the same amount of calories.

They may be eating the same calories. But menopause causes a drop in BMR and TDEE. The calories out are not equal.
Gaining weight while eating the same is exactly what caloiries in/out would predicts.

Not all calories are equal. Carbs do crazy things to insulin levels which in turn converts energy to fat more readily.

The energy must exist in the first place to be converted

Mellor

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're not wrong but there's a bit more to it when you factor in how carbs affect your insulin. Sugar on its own spikes insulin. So refined carbs like white bread, can spike insulin. And spiked insulin causes you to feel hungry so you're more likely to snack or graze or generally increase you calories. Then it's about calories in vs calories out.

Second layer is that carbs mixed with fiber reduces insulin spikes. So something like porridge is better than white bread because porridge has about 8% fiber.

Third layer, carbs have different effects on different people. 2 people eat the same thing and they have different insulin responses because (no great surprise) people are different. Interesting show on BBC with this experiment recently.

Forth layer people don't eat carbs on their own as single ingredients.
The GI of a meal is not the same as the GI of the carbs in it.

Two pieces of white bread may be high GI. But add butter, ham, cheese, lettuce and tomato. The the digestion is slower and the insulin spike less.

El_Duderino 09

Mellor wrote: »

Forth layer people don't eat carbs on their own as single ingredients.
The GI of a meal is not the same as the GI of the carbs in it.

Two pieces of white bread may be high GI. But add butter, ham, cheese, lettuce and tomato. The the digestion is slower and the insulin spike less.

Sure. As an extension to layer 2 about fiber. And if you're sensitive to carbs and cut them cut or greatly reduce them entirely, it can be a very good weight loss strategy.

Cill94

LeakyLime wrote: »

Yes highly simplistic. Breakfast cereal is just an example of how carbohydrates led to the obesity crisis we have today.

The current guidelines (with recommended intake about 55 - 60%) don't seem to be helping the current obesity crisis - we're getting heavier by the year. Carbs , which break down to sugar in our system, are highly addictive.

Most of the foods that people categorise as ‘carbs’ are actually also very high in fat. In fact it’s the combination of carbohydrate and fat which creates so many of the most palatable and calorie dense foods e.g. pizza, chips, chocolate, ice cream, pastries.

There are some people who have an issue with moderating purely carb-heavy foods like jellies, cereals, soft drinks - but I think there are many more in the former category.

That is to say, most people don’t have a ‘carbohydrate’ issue. They have an ‘I eat a ton of high calorie crap and probably don’t move enough’ issue.

Mellor

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. As an extension to layer 2 about fiber..

The point was its not just fiber, but even the addition of fat affects the GI.
ie Chips are lower GI than a carb equivalent amount of boiled potato.


Then you have there's another layer in the fact that a calorie equal portion is lower in carbs for the chips.

Cill94 wrote: »

Most of the foods that people categorise as ‘carbs’ are actually also very high in fat. In fact it’s the combination of carbohydrate and fat which creates so many of the most palatable and calorie dense foods e.g. pizza, chips, chocolate, ice cream, pastries.

There are some people who have an issue with moderating purely carb-heavy foods like jellies, cereals, soft drinks - but I think there are many more in the former category.

Bingo.

It's not difficult to eat 2000+ calories in one sitting of protein, carbs, fat in combination. A large burger meal, with an ice-cream would it.
But 0.6Kg of jellies would be a but tougher slog.


Also the idea that carbs rea a modern indulgence. Because people famously ate very few carbs prior to the 20th century.

BabysCoffee

Long time ketoer here (on and off since about 2014 when someone sent me a link to Cereal Killers doc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKN9PlXxmKc&t=21s )

Just to give a little perspective on why I follow a keto diet. Quite honestly it's not about weight loss (but I am at near my lowest weight point in my life - 5ft 6 and am about 133lbs consistently with very little effort) - I really do keto because it makes me feel so good. I am never hungry, I sleep great and am full of energy.

My husband joined me on keto back in about March and since then he has lost in the region of 16kg - and he also feels great! He dreaded giving up the beer but after a month or so of keto he has carefully added it back in to his diet and is still staying in ketosis and is still loosing a little weight (it's beginning to plateau off now as he is hitting his target weight).

Naturally I've begun to tend towards OMAD which is super convenient. I never used to eat things like breakfast cereal but always had eggs and bacon for breakfast instead - but I've now cut this out. If I'm hungry and need a snack I eat nuts or a few spoonfuls of butter & peanut butter combo (I find peanut butter too dry without the extra butter).

I hope I'm doing right by my future eating keto and I love the clear headed feeling it gives me, so for the moment I think I am doing the right thing. I watch this doctor on youtube a lot and think he makes a lot of sense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNz2gWqL0Ng

I should mention that I probably do a version of lazy/dirty keto and the main thing is that I eat real food and stay well away from processed food

Bananahands

Macy0161 wrote: »

Peer Reviewed science still says no. Not small sample studies, which may (or may not) be on actual humans.

You lost weight because you were in calorie deficit, not through ditching carbs or sugar, not through fasting. You found a method to achieve calorie deficit that was sustainable for you.

I've lost (and maintained) over 8 stone, while still consuming carbs and sugars. As have millions of other people. Because my method of calorie restriction and change in diet was sustainable for me.

Good for you, your calorie restriction must have been savage as is your will power. It’s hard to avoid all carbs and I don’t but if you are not happy trying at least to avoid them you have an element of addiction to sugar. For long term health you need to consider it as science is now starting to point the finger at sugar for dementia, even calling it type3 diabetes.

Macy0161

Every diet requires some willpower, as processed calorific foods are generally tasty as f*ck. But that's why it only works if it's sustainable, as then willpower is less than excluding really tasty foods and food groups from your diet.

Regarding sugar, science may be "beginning" to look at some evidence, but that is a long way from proving a link (or an addiction to sugar - the main evidence is from a study of rats, not humans). There's an awful lot of "evidence" that is correlation rather than causation.

Personally, I'll take the chance on sugar, as I really couldn't live without fruit and berries.

Cill94

Bananahands wrote: »

Good for you, your calorie restriction must have been savage as is your will power. It’s hard to avoid all carbs and I don’t but if you are not happy trying at least to avoid them you have an element of addiction to sugar. For long term health you need to consider it as science is now starting to point the finger at sugar for dementia, even calling it type3 diabetes.

I think it’s pretty reasonable to not want to eliminate an entire food group form your diet if 1) it’s not actually necessary, and 2) it’s not sustainable.

As for sugar’s ties to certain diseases, you’re using the extremes of consumption to prove your bias. I could do the same thing with fat. High levels of saturated fat intake is one of the strongest predictors we have for heart disease. Doesn’t mean you should never eat any, just moderate it. Sugar is also dangerous in very high doses, but there are also many benefits to health and performance from carbohydrates and the foods they are found in.

I just wish the people doing keto could say “this just works for me” and leave it at that. There’s no need to make up wild claims about carbs, unless you need to convince yourself to stay on keto..

Macy0161

Cill94 wrote: »

I just wish the people doing keto could say “this just works for me” and leave it at that. There’s no need to make up wild claims about carbs, unless you need to convince yourself to stay on keto..

This. (and IF advocates)

bb1234567

Cill94 wrote: »

I think it’s pretty reasonable to not want to eliminate an entire food group form your diet if 1) it’s not actually necessary, and 2) it’s not sustainable.

As for sugar’s ties to certain diseases, you’re using the extremes of consumption to prove your bias. I could do the same thing with fat. High levels of saturated fat intake is one of the strongest predictors we have for heart disease. Doesn’t mean you should never eat any, just moderate it. Sugar is also dangerous in very high doses, but there are also many benefits to health and performance from carbohydrates and the foods they are found in.

I just wish the people doing keto could say “this just works for me” and leave it at that. There’s no need to make up wild claims about carbs, unless you need to convince yourself to stay on keto..

I have to say this is what really bugs me about people on keto diet. I don't undetstand the arroagant know it all attitude at all that a lot of people on the diet go on with. There is plenty of people on high carbohydrate who are enjoying diverse, healthy, satiated dietary lifestyles, there is no two ways about that truth, they'll try to convince you're either unhappy or killing yourself though. Bizaree, the dogma is sometimes so strong and unsolicited I am left wondering if they are insecure or unsure of the actual benefits or sustainability of the diet they've chosen and are aggressuvely trying to suppress any other thoughts on diet in order to prove themselves right in their mind..

Macy0161

bb1234567 wrote: »

I have to say this is what really bugs me about people on keto diet. I don't undetstand the arroagant know it all attitude at all that a lot of people on the diet go on with.

In fairness, I don't think it's just keto. But would agree that people seem to aggressively support a diet. Now perhaps that's what helps them with motivation, and it's just they're so invested, but I don't think it really helps others. It just leaves them more confused, and no doubt makes people think it's too hard to bother dieting at all. I try to just say what worked for me, rather than be fundamentalist about it, in terms of method. But the science is the science in that it's calories in v calories out.

I think labeling foods and food groups as "bad" is a recipe for others to beat themselves up and even lead to disordered eating. Ben Carpenter (on facebook/ bdccarpenter on insta) and Greame Tomlinson (thefitnesschef) are very good at addressing this type of stuff. The info graphics by the fitness chef are particularly great!

Mellor

bb1234567 wrote: »

I have to say this is what really bugs me about people on keto diet. I don't undetstand the arroagant know it all attitude at all that a lot of people on the diet go on with. There is plenty of people on high carbohydrate who are enjoying diverse, healthy, satiated dietary lifestyles, there is no two ways about that truth, they'll try to convince you're either unhappy or killing yourself though. Bizaree, the dogma is sometimes so strong and unsolicited I am left wondering if they are insecure or unsure of the actual benefits or sustainability of the diet they've chosen and are aggressuvely trying to suppress any other thoughts on diet in order to prove themselves right in their mind..

I would imagine it's down to the fact it goes against the conventional approach, the food triangle. Which is much more accurately "dogma" of dietary advice.

Most things that go hard against the convention drum up the same zealotry

LeakyLime

The calories in / calories out crowd are also very dogmatic - "it's just that simple " they say!

Ignores the fact that people put on weight differently and two people may eat similar, relatively healthy diets, one will put on weight, the other will not. Hormones play a roll.

You won't know until you try cut out carbs, if it makes you feel better and lose weight eaiser.

And ultimately, the health benefits of that will out weigh and 'negative ' effects of eating more healthy fats.