What’s the best diet for weight loss ?

markmoto

bladespin wrote: »

Suck it up OR feed the craving but don’t over feed it, moderation and self control are the keys to any sustained weight loss.

Many obese & overweight can't moderate carbs.
Would you advice alcoholic to drink in moderation?
Simply doesn't work.

Alf Veedersane

markmoto wrote: »

Many obese & overweight can't moderate carbs.
Would you advice alcoholic to drink in moderation?
Simply doesn't work.

So you're saying if someone is on a diet with a lot of carbs and they switch to keto, they never have cravings for carbs and definitely won't fall off the wagon in a matter of days?

But if they were to reduce their carb intake or just simply make better choices as regards food quality and quantity, they definitely have carb cravings and off the wagon in a matter of days?

Because that seems at odds with when you said low carb isn't for everyone.

markmoto

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

So you're saying if someone is on a diet with a lot of carbs and they switch to keto, they never have cravings for carbs and definitely won't fall off the wagon in a matter of days?

But if they were to reduce their carb intake or just simply make better choices as regards food quality and quantity, they definitely have carb cravings and off the wagon in a matter of days?

Because that seems at odds with when you said low carb isn't for everyone.

I asked you question in previous post, do you have any solution for those with carbs cravings due to serotonin/dopamine withdrawal?
Anything valuable to say?

AllForIt

markmoto wrote: »

Well I asked you, do you have any solution for those who have carbs cravings due to serotonin/dopamine withdrawal?
In many cases stronger than opioid drugs.

In that case you don't go cold turkey on carbs. You reduce your intake of starchy carbs, then reduce again after a period of time (eg 2-3-4 weeks) as per how you feel, and repeat till your off them. It's a long game to change your diet from an anything goes one to a sensible one.

That's how I do it when I let my weight get out control. I've currenly got my starchy carbs down to as low as possible i.e none on a regular basis.

I have a bit of a tortilla wrap now and again and not because I crave them just when I've very little food in stock. I keep soda bread in the freezer for emergency. With the stage I'm at if I ate anything more than 2 slices of soda bread I'd feel physically ill. I mention this because that's how much you can change.

Alf Veedersane

markmoto wrote: »

I asked you question in previous post, do you have any solution for those with carbs cravings due to serotonin/dopamine withdrawal?
Anything valuable to say?

Have you read any of my posts? At all?

Because my thoughts are very clear.

You seem to think there is only one way. I have said there are lots of ways but what works for one person may not work for another.

You haven't answered any of my questions. At all.

So, as I asked above, does someone go from a high carb diet to keto and have zero cravings?

But well done on the valuable contributions to date. Science doesn't really rate them because of what you have done to scientific papers but I appreciate you *hugs*

Minime2.5

markmoto wrote: »

What is you thought on obesity ?
Let me guess calories control ?

Why do you keep dodging his question. You posted that graphic as back up to your own argument yet it seems to argue against it . Back up your reasoning for posting it or admit you were either wrong or that your a troll

Minime2.5

markmoto wrote: »

What about people with craving? They can only last few days on your advice and once willpower run out of fuel they are rolling backward.

yea they will be back on the porridge binges in no time

Minime2.5

markmoto wrote: »

Well I asked you, do you have any solution for those who have carbs cravings due to serotonin/dopamine withdrawal?
In many cases stronger than opioid drugs.

Dont cut carbs in the first place but replace the highly processed calorie toxic low nutrient food which is high in both carbs and fat and replace it with nutrient dense single ingredient foods through a healthy balanced combination of all 3 macro nutrients

markmoto

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Have you read any of my posts? At all?

Because my thoughts are very clear.

You seem to think there is only one way. I have said there are lots of ways but what works for one person may not work for another.

You haven't answered any of my questions. At all.

So, as I asked above, does someone go from a high carb diet to keto and have zero cravings?

But well done on the valuable contributions to date. Science doesn't really rate them because of what you have done to scientific papers but I appreciate you *hugs*

If you are overall healthy there is many ways to fix your self.

But I don't see how majority of obese people can control carbs in a same way alcoholic cant control drink portion.

Unless you know something that I don't ... food quality and calories count? Using what willpower, prison cell...

And apparently the brain can still function fine running on ketones. This thread would make you wonder.

Alf Veedersane

markmoto wrote: »

If you are overall healthy there is many ways to fix your self.

But I don't see how majority of obese people can control carbs in a same way alcoholic cant control drink portion.

Unless you know something that I don't ... food quality and calories count? Using what willpower, prison cell...

You still haven't answered any of the questions I asked.


You're also still saying that obesity is caused by carbs despite putting up a graph that shows it doesn't.


So if you'd like to answer the questions and make some sense, that'd be great.

bladespin

markmoto wrote: »

Many obese & overweight can't moderate carbs.
Would you advice alcoholic to drink in moderation?
Simply doesn't work.

Not sure what you're on about, you can either feed the craving a little and live with or just go cold turkey, or just accept they're overweight.

BTW comparing carb craving to alcoholism is the absolute height of karening, if it's that bad then seek professional help, don't be asking on a public forum.

markmoto

bladespin wrote: »

BTW comparing carb craving to alcoholism is the absolute height of karening, if it's that bad then seek professional help, don't be asking on a public forum.

Sure?
Perhaps both affects many of the same neural pathways in the brain or could be that alcohol even faster energy supplier?

Alf Veedersane

markmoto wrote: »

Sure?
Perhaps both affects many of the same neural pathways in the brain or could be that alcohol even faster energy supplier?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763414002140


Again.

bladespin

markmoto wrote: »

Sure?
Perhaps both affects many of the same neural pathways in the brain or could be that alcohol even faster energy supplier?

It's very possible, as a former smoker I know enough about addiction to understand it's better to 'avoid' altogether, that said I don't have to run and hide if someone around me lights up, I'm sure carb addiction is a thing, but I really doubt if there are many (if any really) afflicted with it to the point where they're unable to cope with basic dietary advice, as said already, if it is that bad then there are various therapies available to help you cope - calories, keto, if aren't going to cut if for them.

Minime2.5

markmoto wrote: »

If you are overall healthy there is many ways to fix your self.

But I don't see how majority of obese people can control carbs in a same way alcoholic cant control drink portion.

Unless you know something that I don't ... food quality and calories count? Using what willpower, prison cell...

Because your assumption that carbs can be lumped in with alcohol in terms of being on par in terms of an addictive substance is totally wrong . There is zero real world evidence that sugar in unison is addictive. Ill ask you to give me one example and what food specifically but tou wont youll just dodge my query

Greyfox

Minime2.5 wrote: »

There is zero real world evidence that sugar in unison is addictive.

Sugar is addictive, millions find sugary treats to be more addictive than alcohol.

Alf Veedersane

Greyfox wrote: »

Sugar is addictive, millions find sugary treats to be more addictive than alcohol.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763414002140

"There is currently insufficient scientific evidence to label any common food, ingredient, micronutrient, standard food additive or combination of ingredients as addicitive".

Worth a read. While sugary food may be highly palatable, its more the behaviour that's addictive than the food itself.

Minime2.5

Greyfox wrote: »

Sugar is addictive, millions find sugary treats to be more addictive than alcohol.

if sugar was addictive then youd see people eat bags of sugar with a spoon. Why dont you see this? Its because sugar as an independent ingredient isnt addictive however if you combine sugar with fat it becomes a different story

Greyfox

OmegaGene wrote: »

Sugar is not addictive, the reason people like the sugary treats is because if all the other ****e

Sugar on its own is not addictive but who eats sugar on its own? What i mean is sugary treats are addictive. Added sugar appears in loads of foods because it can be addictive, lots of low fat food had extra sugar because its addictive. Lots of research with mice have shown sugar addiction and cocaine addiction having similar efffects on the brain.

Greyfox

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

While sugary food may be highly palatable, its more the behaviour that's addictive than the food itself.

The end result is the same, eating too many sugary treats.

Minime2.5 wrote: »

Its because sugar as an independent ingredient isnt addictive however if you combine sugar with fat it becomes a different story

When i say sugar i mean food with a high sugar content.

c.p.w.g.w

The one thing with Low carb/keto that I find amazing is I'm never hungry anymore...

Never had keto flu, don't track my urine ketones as it's not accurate once your in ketosis...

I have found a number of improvements in my health...

Psoriasis cleared up
Lost 4st 7lbs
Unexplained chest pains gone(which dr's had zero idea what it was)
Blood sugars are normalized
No desire to consume alcohol or sweet foods(just done desire them)
Also some other health metrics have improved.

Being doing it for 10 months, I find it very easy to follow...it's obviously easier to follow once the hunger disappears...I had to pop over to help a family member last weekend, got up late so had no food eaten, didn't eat until 7 in the evening, had zero affect on me(once I'm properly hydrated)

markmoto

Well said lads

Short video how sugar effects brain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKJABZpPMI

Ravendale

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

The one thing with Low carb/keto that I find amazing is I'm never hungry anymore...

Never had keto flu, don't track my urine ketones as it's not accurate once your in ketosis...

I have found a number of improvements in my health...

Psoriasis cleared up
Lost 4st 7lbs
Unexplained chest pains gone(which dr's had zero idea what it was)
Blood sugars are normalized
No desire to consume alcohol or sweet foods(just done desire them)
Also some other health metrics have improved.

Being doing it for 10 months, I find it very easy to follow...it's obviously easier to follow once the hunger disappears...I had to pop over to help a family member last weekend, got up late so had no food eaten, didn't eat until 7 in the evening, had zero affect on me(once I'm properly hydrated)

I'm really considering low carb. Now even sure where to start

c.p.w.g.w

Ravendale wrote: »

I'm really considering low carb. Now even sure where to start

To be honest, I just looked at my usual food, and started removing the carbs...I have transitioned to one male a day(which if you told me 6 months ago I'd had looked at you as of you had 5 heads)

I try to include as many nutritional dense foods as possible, eggs, red meat & offal and if I can get locally caught fish.

Diet Dr is a good place to start...feel free to PM me if you have any questions

Minime2.5

Greyfox wrote: »

The end result is the same, eating too many sugary treats.



When i say sugar i mean food with a high sugar content.

yes but carbs like oatmeal fruit sweet potatoes and brown rice are being thrown into the sugar group and are being demonized against. I know all carbohydrates are sugar at a basic level but those healthy foods I listed are not addictive and are not the problem and should not be lambasted against. Its not too difficult to know what foods are junk foods and you dont need to avoid the list of foods i mentioned because you my crave the ****e foods . Plenty of people eat eggs and oatmeal for breakfast a chicken sandwich for lunch and a dinner of a potatos with a meat source and veg for dinner and are in great shape

Minime2.5

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

To be honest, I just looked at my usual food, and started removing the carbs...I have transitioned to one male a day(which if you told me 6 months ago I'd had looked at you as of you had 5 heads)

I try to include as many nutritional dense foods as possible, eggs, red meat & offal and if I can get locally caught fish.

Diet Dr is a good place to start...feel free to PM me if you have any questions

One male a day ? Are you sure your posting in the correct forum?

Minime2.5

markmoto wrote: »

Well said lads

Short video how sugar effects brain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKJABZpPMI

Are you going to continue to ignore the query put to you about the graph you posted?

c.p.w.g.w

Minime2.5 wrote: »

One male a day ? Are you sure your posting in the correct forum?

Darn autocorrect...one meal a day(OMAD)

markmoto

When I was on ketogenic diet for 7 month.
Most days no desires to eat more than once, some weekends I would go fasting for 24/45 hrs as routine.

My improvements:

1. Tremendous amount of power.
2. Memory focus, fast thinking.
3. Obviously lost weight and muscle growth was a bit faster.

c.p.w.g.w

Minime2.5 wrote: »

yes but carbs like oatmeal fruit sweet potatoes and brown rice are being thrown into the sugar group and are being demonized against. I know all carbohydrates are sugar at a basic level but those healthy foods I listed are not addictive and are not the problem and should not be lambasted against. Its not too difficult to know what foods are junk foods and you dont need to avoid the list of foods i mentioned because you my crave the ****e foods . Plenty of people eat eggs and oatmeal for breakfast a chicken sandwich for lunch and a dinner of a potatos with a meat source and veg for dinner and are in great shape

I certainly found issues with oats, I could have oats for breakfast cand be hungry with 2-3 hours...if I had eggs and bacon, was full till 2ish...that is when I ate carbs of course...my experience is indicative of a metabolic issues...

In the US, there are some estimates that only 20-30% of the adult population are metabolically healthy

Minime2.5

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rez8Ni9Umw

markmoto

Minime2.5 wrote: »

Are you going to continue to ignore the query put to you about the graph you posted?

I do not ignore genuine query but haven't got time to entertain trolls
google it, everything in public domain

markmoto

Minime2.5 wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rez8Ni9Umw

Forum topic "the best diet for weight loss"

Nevertheless do you aware of Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose 1985 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding had a section on ketosis as a weight loss method ?

Mellor

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Seems kind of obvious, I reckon.
Which brings us all back to the question of "what is a calorie" and how it's measure in a Laboratory compares to how energy from food translates in a body"?

It was obvious to everyone else all all along. Those stats rubbish your claims.

Not sure now it brings us back to what is a calories. Your errors were already pointed out, you disappeared for a while.
Back now to accept that you were wrong now? Not clear.

As above, 98 % modify food intake and 94% increase exercise.

By what unit was "food intake" measured? I'd be fairly confident that it was measure in calories or similar unit of energy.

Kinda pisses in the face of your notions that calories intake has no bearing on weight loss. In that is completely proved it wrong.

The 2% of people that didn't reduce intake, certainly were among the 94% who increased activity. And vice versa.

How many reduced calories in vrs calories out? Again, I'm confident that it's 100% (allowing for a margin of error)

Lucy8080 wrote: »

The scientific answer to the question " what is a calorie?" is what brings us back!

A calorie is 4.18 kilojoules.
That is not a question that "science is unsure about.

Mellor

markmoto wrote: »

What about people with craving? They can only last few days on your advice and once willpower run out of fuel they are rolling backward.

What happens to their calories in/out ratio when they lose the will power?
What does the impact on their weight loss/gain say about the accuracy of CICO?

markmoto wrote: »

In many cases stronger than opioid drugs.

:pac::pac::pac:

markmoto wrote: »

My improvements:

1. Tremendous amount of power.
3. Obviously lost weight and muscle growth was a bit faster.

What qualifies as tremendous power?

Didn't you also say in the other thread that you trained more while on keto.
Are you really saying that increases is strength/power was mainly down to diet and that a massive increase in training volume was not a factor. Odd conclusion imo.

markmoto wrote: »

Nevertheless do you aware of Arnold Schwarzenegger,

Do you even aware bro?

Mellor

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

The one thing with Low carb/keto that I find amazing is I'm never hungry anymore...

Never had keto flu, don't track my urine ketones as it's not accurate once your in ketosis...

I have found a number of improvements in my health...

Psoriasis cleared up
Lost 4st 7lbs
Unexplained chest pains gone(which dr's had zero idea what it was)
Blood sugars are normalized
No desire to consume alcohol or sweet foods(just done desire them)
Also some other health metrics have improved.

That's great going. Are you at target weight or still tracking towards it?

You points on the above in bold.
I agree that strips are unnecessary once you get going. But they are also perfectly accurate at what they do - the issue is that people sometimes misunderstand what they do. They only "confirm ketosis", strictly nothing else.

Unexplained pains disappearing makes sense to me. If you have to carry around nearly 30kg with you everywhere, most of it on your torso. You're going to pick up some pains on your chest, back, core.

Well done again.

Dtp1979

markmoto wrote: »

When I was on ketogenic diet for 7 month.
Most days no desires to eat more than once, some weekends I would go fasting for 24/45 hrs as routine.

My improvements:

1. Tremendous amount of power.
2. Memory focus, fast thinking.
3. Obviously lost weight and muscle growth was a bit faster.

Sounds kinda like a steroid, this keto craic. WADA should investigate.
If it was so good why didn’t you stick to it?

Alf Veedersane

Greyfox wrote: »

The end result is the same, eating too many sugary treats.

You did say sugar is addictive so I was addressing that point because there isn't the evidence to say it is.


People eat too many of a lot of things but we don't say they're addictive. Just that they're highly palatable. There's a difference.

Macy0161

Greyfox wrote: »

Lots of research with mice have shown sugar addiction and cocaine addiction having similar efffects on the brain.

I'll be sure to warn the next mice the cats bring in...

Notwithstanding that it's rodents, not humans, even that study was flawed/ set up to prove the link. They restricted access to other foods iirc, while giving sugar, then reintroduced other foods. There is no evidence that it is addictive to humans.

Western Society eats too big a portions, of readily available highly palatable foods. They are highly palatable because of sugar or fat or salt or any combination (or all) of them. That is not the same as addiction.

Dieting and changing diet is hard because of the palatable nature and ready availability of these foods, not because people are addicted. People fall off diets not because of addiction, but because they haven't found the sustainable method for them.

Greyfox wrote: »

lots of low fat food had extra sugar because its addictive

This is one of those lazy generalisations that really grinds my gears nearly as much as "sugar addiction". It's nowhere near as widespread as is made out in my experience of actually comparing labels!

c.p.w.g.w wrote:

I certainly found issues with oats, I could have oats for breakfast cand be hungry with 2-3 hours...if I had eggs and bacon, was full till 2ish...that is when I ate carbs of course...my experience is indicative of a metabolic issues...

I think that's definitely n=1 though. I'm fine with my porridge in the morning, albeit made with milk and mixed with protein. My wife and children generally have baked oats with yogurt, and again are grand until lunchtime.

c.p.w.g.w

Mellor wrote: »

That's great going. Are you at target weight or still tracking towards it?

Surpassed my initial target weight...so sticking with keto and just waiting for my vaccine and I'm hoping to get back into the gym and do a bit body recomp and get a bit of muscle packed on

Minime2.5

markmoto wrote: »

I do not ignore genuine query but haven't got time to entertain trolls
google it, everything in public domain

I think youve just proven that your the troll. Got caught out on something you thought would support your argument yet it back fired and now your too proud to admit it. Your going on the ignore list . I suggest every one else give this troll a wide berth too

markmoto

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Sounds kinda like a steroid, this keto craic. WADA should investigate.
If it was so good why didn’t you stick to it?

Good point, I wanted to get experience being on ketogenic diet, 0 carbs except from green vegetables, and afterwards to see what is like to switch back to carbs. Not a wise decision switching back tbh but very good experiment.

Greyfox

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

People eat too many of a lot of things but we don't say they're addictive. Just that they're highly palatable. There's a difference.

Actually every person I know in real life agrees that junk food can be addictive. Food like chips, crisps, chocolate, cakes etc can give people a dopamine hit. The words highly palatable is not used that ofren.

Greyfox

Greyfox wrote: »

Actually every person I know in real life agrees that junk food can be addictive. Food like chips, crisps, chocolate, cakes etc can give people a dopamine hit. The words highly palatable is not used that ofren.

How about the words tasty or delicious, or any other number of terms to say that something tastes good? :rolleyes:

Alf Veedersane

Greyfox wrote: »

Actually every person I know in real life agrees that junk food can be addictive. Food like chips, crisps, chocolate, cakes etc can give people a dopamine hit. The words highly palatable is not used that ofren.

That doesn't mean they're correct.

Petting a dog can also release dopamine and serotonin. Most people aren't addicted to petting dogs.

Anyway, I linked the study. It's not about my opinion.

markmoto

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

That doesn't mean they're correct.

Petting a dog can also release dopamine and serotonin. Most people aren't addicted to petting dogs.

Anyway, I linked the study. It's not about my opinion.

palatable?
Stay out of carbs for a week and see if you can make it.

Tobacco had studies that says is ok to smoke and 40 years later we all know causes variety of health problems.

markmoto

OmegaGene wrote: »

Alf that’s a good one, I’ve tears in my eyes

Are you teenager or your lacrimal glands not fully developed yet?

bladespin

This thread's hilarious, we're saying carbs are worse than cigs and alcohol now, what's next???? Heroin???

Alf Veedersane

markmoto wrote: »

Tobacco had studies that says is ok to smoke and 40 years later we all know causes variety of health problems.

Jesus wept.