The Irish protocol.

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138684#Comment_118138684

Indeed but a minority in Northern Ireland voted for Brexit. The majority voted against it.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118132187#Comment_118132187

Wow, just wow. You really really really need to revisit the history of this island. IRA onslaught? The fact you believe the violence was started by the IRA is actually jaw dropping.

Civil rights marches (required as a result of geerymandering and all the other nonsense that went on) were attacked by loyalists beginning in 1969 which would eventually lead to the battle of the bogside and it all spun out from there. The RUC played a massive role in causing all of this.

I assume you also know why the BA was actually sent to NI? - a mandate they failed miserably.

But given the way British history is taught in the UK should I really be surprised?

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138519#Comment_118138519

But it's not a matter of us simply interjecting and telling the unionists what to do or think. What's happened is that the DUP, a party for hardline unionists have pushed through Brexit against the will of the majority of Northern Irish people. Following Brexit the British government negotiated the Northern Irish protocol with the EU, agreed on a set of rules and then signed it. The British government then stated that they didn't agree with what they negotiated and signed and were tricked by the evil EU.

Some hardline unionists were frankly stupid enough to believe that a deal negotiated, signed and implemented by the British government was the fault of the Irish government. So to sum up Brexit is being pushed on NI against the will of the majority by the British government and hardline unionists, the protocol was negotiated on behalf of NI by the British government, who were held in power by hardline unionists and now some of those unionists believe that the Irish government are at fault. This view was expressed routinely by the DUP and the poster on this thread.

Well sorry but we're being blamed for something that's not our fault so it's perfectly valid to tell the delusional unionists to get real and sort their own problems out.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140115#Comment_118140115

Perhaps you should revisit the history of this island too? Nothing is ever B/W. There are contemporary accounts of the times you refer to, that show the early civil rights leaders were essentially peaceful and Marxist. That those who promoted violence as a tactic insinuated themselves into those movements and changed their direction. These latter have been a curse on this island for the past century, causing division and bitterness.

The day the Brexit vote was announced, it was clear it would have major implications for Northern Ireland and this island as a whole. That it would undermine the GFA which existed under the umbrella of the EU that facilitated closer ties between our islands.

We are but the smaller player in this game, we may deeply regret Brexit but there's SFA we can do about it. As such, if Northern Ireland is to be brought back into equilibrium with our Republic and if we are to reinstate some semblance of inclusion, then we need to contemplate Irexit. It's as simple as that, either we leave the EU and realign or the UK rejoins and we restore alignment. As it is, there is a clear fault line in our relationships.

Junkyard Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140227#Comment_118140227

We are but the smaller player in this game

We are the EU, Britain is the smaller player in this game

we need to contemplate Irexit

Lol, no.

BluePlanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139293#Comment_118139293

But downcow, that year 'without checks' while the trade agreement is suspended doesn't make NI an attractive place for business.

People, businesses don't invest where a cloud of uncertainty hangs over.

Kermit.de.frog

Looks like the acquiescence and weakness from Brussels is to continue according to the FT.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MehreenKhn/status/1458032883155800071

https://mobile.twitter.com/MehreenKhn/status/1458034039043002370

When are they going to grow a pair?

Grow a pair over what? They're paying the divorce bill and the NIP is still in place.

Let the UK make actual moves that hurt Ireland and the EU first.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140656#Comment_118140656

Would you stop with this? Do you expect the EU to react before the UK does anything?

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140692#Comment_118140692

If this were Germany or France this discussion wouldn't be happening.

It's playing out exactly as I have repeatedly warned it would.

If they invoke Article 16, I think the TCA should be walked away from with the nine or twelve months notice, and Calais customs moved onto ferries from Ireland to the EU mainland. The same timeframe should be given to revoking London's financial passporting.

Paperwork on the ferries would simply be EU citizen drivers declaring all goods are EU standard and a token effort made to make sure it is. The chaos in Calais along with other punitive tariffs would be a good reaction in my opinion. It wouldn't impact Ireland's place in the Single Market at all since it wouldn't impact trade. And the British media couldn't even have a go at France for going slow since customs would ostensibly be preparing for no TCA.

Their only real leverage is Ireland's place in the Single Market, so we should neuter it and only allow the TCA to come into force again when the NIP is properly implemented. The internal pressure in the UK would be so great, it could collapse into a black hole and kill us all.

Kermit.de.frog

How long are the EU going to wait before publicly acknowledging and acting on the fact that this corrupt cabal in London can not be trusted?

They've already broken their commitments and all we had from Brussels is some meek, since postponed, legal action that means the square root of nothing to the Tories.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140787#Comment_118140787

And in all of that, Ireland hasn't been negatively affected.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140795#Comment_118140795

That's going to end before the end of the month. We will be directly affected because there will be a hole in the single market.

I have zero doubt this has always been the plan of this Tory government.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140656#Comment_118140656

Why would they do a "pre-emptive strike" over a self-harming action that the UK are possibly going to inflict on themselves? Better off to take the higher ground and let them motor ahead and do whatever they want.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140816#Comment_118140816

Right, it'd technically be a hole. But the lack of divergence and limited cargo capacity through Ireland means the EU has a lot of room to manoeuvre without impacting Ireland's position in the Single Market.

If the EU were erecting barriers before the UK even did anything, you'd decry the impact on Ireland from EU action. You're hard to please.

irishgrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140115#Comment_118140115

"Wow, just Wow" me hole! Your own synopsis of Irish history and in particular the role of the IRA and the impact of their terrorist campaigns on the protestant community shows a level of nuance comparable to a 15 year old whose sole source of reference was a collection of wolf tone records.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140843#Comment_118140843

It's not "technically" a hole, it will be a hole.

According to the Torygraph the government in London will also, simultaneously to triggering Art 16, introduce their own legislation to make them the arbiters of what can go in to the single market.

You can count on one hand the number of months the French and Dutch will hold their nose before asking serious questions of our government and what we will do about it.

I think the most likely outcome right now is that Ireland finds itself 'acidentally' outside the single market because I don't see the EU taking the type of action needed to punish the Tories.

Now, I could be wrong, and maybe they'll come out all guns blazing but I see zero evidence that will actually happen.

The EU have been way too accommodating with these liars and charlatans since January.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140759#Comment_118140759

Would this include Eu placing border controls on the Uk / Eu land border. Just asking like!

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140843#Comment_118140843

There is a wee chink of truth peeping through. What you are saying applies equally now to the Larne Stranraer crossing

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140721#Comment_118140721

Yes, you are a true prophet.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140787#Comment_118140787

So you think that the EU (whom you dislike) should do something to harm the relationship (further than the Brits have done so far)? Why on earth would the EU give the UK the upper hand? Allegedly, Napoleon said "Never interfere with an enemy while he’s in the process of destroying himself." - why would (or should) the EU interfere as there would be no upside for them?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140816#Comment_118140816

And maybe once we actually know what the UK has done we can act but until then, any pre-emptive strike will be seen (kinda rightly so) as an act of hostility by the EU, again giving the UK the upper hand. If and when there is a hole in the SM, we can mitigate that. But attacking the UK in advance of this is not the appraoch to take.

What you are suggesting offers absolutely no benefits to the EU and would in fact give the upper hand to the UK but given your previous posts on the subject, I expect this might be what you are after.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140898#Comment_118140898

No. Ireland would be let do as it pleases for the duration of the action. A land border isn't possible for Ireland as it would lose all support of the EU and America, and would be wrong morally.

What I'm talking about is moving the pressure from Northern Ireland onto Great Britain.

downcow

I love the angle of lots of your posts now guys.

“we can mitigate against the hole in the SM”

”we can deal with it as the capacity is so small on iris routes to damage the SM”

etc etc. I like your thinking. One year of that and it will be hard for the Eu to maintain the lie that removing checks at Larne will flood the Eu with Chinese fireworks.

I see hope

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140908#Comment_118140908

Firstly you don't know what my position is on anything because you clearly haven't read any of my posts. If you did you would know I have a very nuanced position on the EU.

Secondly are you denying that the UK government has broken it's commitments, specifically on the protocol, in the WA since the TCA was signed?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140889#Comment_118140889

Well we can disagree. The EU risked the No Deal the UK were threatening, with no break in solidarity. They stuck with Ireland and I don't envision it changing.

Had the UK done its best for a credible amount of time, maybe. But that's not the case.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140933#Comment_118140933

This is great stuff. The Eu is going to demonstrate how to mitigate the hole in the single market without physical checks. I really hope you are correct.

we can then flip the arrangements or share them once we see them working and everyone is happy.

don’t let it be lost on you guys that exports from Eu to Uk are greater than the other way around. Or at least that’s what I read.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140950#Comment_118140950

Demonstrating a way around it would be detrimental in normal times, but not as a temporary measure as part of a trade war.

What you're missing here is that the UK wouldn't be able to trade freely during this time. Car factories closing etc. The British government is willing to take such risks with NI but not Sunderland.

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140937#Comment_118140937

Why would the EU have to lie to implement a protocol negotiated and signed by the British government?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140950#Comment_118140950

Reading the last line it seems you think the UK market is more important to the EU than the EU market is for the UK?

Or what was the point of the last line?

ambro25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140656#Comment_118140656

You are misreading the Commission’s signalling. Read it again.

”Commission officials and EU diplomats roundly dismissing the idea that there is a "package" of retaliation measures being prepared by Brussels against UK - particularly a pre-emptivre strike over A16. No plan will be presented to EU envoys tomorrow or by Sefocvic to Frost on Fri” = means that the EU will not threaten the UK first, whether on Fri or at any other time.

Doesn’t mean that the EU has not, and is not still, doing its homework, nor that it hasn’t got a ready response to the UK triggering Art.16.

The pattern of the last 5 years is that the Commission does its homework well in advance wherein, every time the British headbangers have another go, they get owned quick sharp, only to crawl back under their bridge while the last-agreed measures continue on. Which, broadly speaking, are measures weighed in the EU’s favour, correctly reflecting its economic size relative the UK and in the common -and individual- interests of its member states, including inter alia Ireland.

Like the WA before, like the TCA currently, with all the divorce payment and assorted other bells on.

As a keen Brexit observer on this thread, you should have got used to the principle of the thing by now, surely?