The Irish protocol.

BonnieSituation

CelticRambler wrote: »

Only because they're doing their damnedest to make it happen. Their fundamental problem is that they will not accept the reality of their own history and tradition, nor the fact that the world changes. Their deepest roots lie in Scotland, not England, yet they place all their hopes on an English parliament. They supposedly pledge allegiance to the English monarch, yet their hallmark event of the year is a celebration of their loyalty to the Dutch monarchy. They claim to be British, yet the vast majority of Britain regards them as Irish living on the island of Ireland.

They could have their Anglo-Dutch-Celtic cake and eat it if they'd stop always trying to be something they're not, and accept that life - on balance - would be a hell of a lot better for them as an "ethnic" community living in a United Ireland.

There's a town not far from where I live in France that identified as Scottish and was ruled by the House of Stuart and others for 400 years, until it willingly opted to blend with the surrounding French territories in 1840. If you go there today, you can still see and feel straight away that you're amongst Scots. If those Scots could do it and be happy with the arrangement, then the Scots that now call themselves Ulster Protestants could just as easily do the same.

Aubigny?

CelticRambler

That's the one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjJFCGlh-Ro

hometruths

Why is it that a Scottish marching band looks like a celebration of their culture, history and identity which is inviting to all to admire and respect?

Whereas an Orange Order marching band just looks like a crew of thugs looking for a fight?

briany

schmittel wrote: »

Why is it that a Scottish marching band looks like a celebration of their culture, history and identity which is inviting to all to admire and respect?

Whereas an Orange Order marching band just looks like a crew of thugs looking for a fight?

That is more true in areas where OO marches are contentious things such as Ardoyne and so on. It's not so much true of the OO marches that happen in Rossnowlagh, Donegal.

downcow

CelticRambler wrote: »

Only because they're doing their damnedest to make it happen. Their fundamental problem is that they will not accept the reality of their own history and tradition, nor the fact that the world changes. Their deepest roots lie in Scotland, not England, yet they place all their hopes on an English parliament. They supposedly pledge allegiance to the English monarch, yet their hallmark event of the year is a celebration of their loyalty to the Dutch monarchy. They claim to be British, yet the vast majority of Britain regards them as Irish living on the island of Ireland.

They could have their Anglo-Dutch-Celtic cake and eat it if they'd stop always trying to be something they're not, and accept that life - on balance - would be a hell of a lot better for them as an "ethnic" community living in a United Ireland.

There's a town not far from where I live in France that identified as Scottish and was ruled by the House of Stuart and others for 400 years, until it willingly opted to blend with the surrounding French territories in 1840. If you go there today, you can still see and feel straight away that you're amongst Scots. If those Scots could do it and be happy with the arrangement, then the Scots that now call themselves Ulster Protestants could just as easily do the same.

I am pretty sure you have edited a post of mine. Can you show me where I said what you are quoting as mine.
Please retract or correct

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

I am pretty sure you have edited a post of mine. Can you show me where I said what you are quoting as mine.
Please retract or correct

I quoted Sunny Disposition; boards.ie did some weirdness to it and attributed it to one of your posts instead, while retaining SD's text ... Fixed now.

downcow

CelticRambler wrote: »

I quoted Sunny Disposition; boards.ie did some weirdness to it and attributed it to one of your posts instead, while retaining SD's text ... Fixed now.

Thanks. Honest mistake

Lol I thought I had lost my marbles and was talking absolute nonsense. But that explains it

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

talking absolute nonsense. But that explains it

The unionism of dominance is being nudged out of existence. Unionism was never about being 'British' it was about dominance of Ireland and when the 'natives' said 'no more' unionism retreated into the northeast to try to preserve their rotten rule.

One way or another unionists live in Ireland amongst the Irish and they'd better get used to it.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The unionism of dominance is being nudged out of existence. Unionism was never about being 'British' it was about dominance of Ireland and when the 'natives' said 'no more' unionism retreated into the northeast to try to preserve their rotten rule.

One way or another unionists live in Ireland amongst the Irish and they'd better get used to it.

And vice versa

salonfire

downcow wrote: »

And vice versa

You're getting out-numbered, out-educated and out-earned by nationalists in the North. Your "wee country" is getting wee-r and wee-r. I don't think nationalists need worry too much.

FrancieBrady

As an excerise in exceptionalism the British Ambassador's performance in his RTE interview this morning was exemplary. Shockingly so.

downcow

salonfire wrote: »

You're getting out-numbered, out-educated and out-earned by nationalists in the North. Your "wee country" is getting wee-r and wee-r. I don't think nationalists need worry too much.

Your problem is that fewer and fewer nationalist refer to ‘the north’. More and more are buying into ‘northern Ireland’ as their home.

Yous waited a 100 years to get a catholic majority and now those pesky Catholics have just gone and decided they don’t want a UI lol

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Your problem is that fewer and fewer nationalist refer to ‘the north’. More and more are buying into ‘northern Ireland’ as their home.

Yous waited a 100 years to get a catholic majority and now those pesky Catholics have just gone and decided they don’t want a UI lol

Far more former Unionists are moving to the Alliance and the 'Northern Irish' designation.

You'll probably ignore that reality until it is too late too. DUP certainly are.

Seth Brundle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As an excerise in exceptionalism the British Ambassador's performance in his RTE interview this morning was exemplary. Shockingly so.

Tell us more please

downcow wrote: »

Your problem is that fewer and fewer nationalist refer to ‘the north’. More and more are buying into ‘northern Ireland’ as their home.

Yous waited a 100 years to get a catholic majority and now those pesky Catholics have just gone and decided they don’t want a UI lol

The results of an opinion poll isn't the same as a properly conceived and organised border poll

FrancieBrady

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Tell us more please

Worth a listen on playback Seth. Boucher Hayes dissected his nonsense perfectly.

Brendan O'Connor show. Can't remember what part of it.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Far more former Unionists are moving to the Alliance and the 'Northern Irish' designation.

You'll probably ignore that reality until it is too late too. DUP certainly are.

It’s great. I am happy for 100% to move to northern Irish. That would be my dream situation

downcow

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Tell us more please

The results of an opinion poll isn't the same as a properly conceived and organised border poll

I didn’t mention an opinion poll so I don’t know why you are quoting me ?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s great. I am happy for 100% to move to northern Irish. That would be my dream situation

So you are Irish now. Good stuff.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I didn’t mention an opinion poll so I don’t know why you are quoting me ?

The current size of the Northern Irish identity is only known from polls.

CelticRambler

downcow wrote: »

It’s great. I am happy for 100% to move to northern Irish. That would be my dream situation

Does that mean you finally accept that Northern Irish tradition and identity is separate and distinct from being British. Kinda like it says on title page of every UK passport?

jamule

CelticRambler wrote: »

Does that mean you finally accept that Northern Irish tradition and identity is separate and distinct from being British. Kinda like it says on title page of every UK passport?

I'm still amazed at the amount Brits and Norn Irish that don't know the name of the country.

Hamsterchops

Scottish & British, Welsh & British, English & British, Northern Irish & British, Pakistani & British, Afro Carribbean & British, Manx & British, Channel Islander & British ...

British, a cultural identity, a sense of being, ones Nationality, holding a Passport, belonging to, being part of, feeling a kinship with the British people living on these islands, so why should we tell them they ain't British anymore?

NI is connected to GB for many reasons, most of which I've mentioned above, and from (their perspective) the NI protocol cuts them off from their cultural & commercial Mothership (GB).

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Scottish & British, Welsh & British, English & British, Northern Irish & British, Pakistani & British, Afro Carribbean & British, Manx & British, Channel Islander & British ...

British, a cultural identity, a sense of being, ones Nationality, holding a Passport, belonging to, being part of, feeling a kinship with the British people living on these islands, so why should we tell them they ain't British anymore?

NI is connected to GB for many reasons, most of which I've mentioned above, and from (their perspective) the NI protocol cuts them off from their cultural & commercial Mothership (GB).

You can be Irish, German, Polish, Jamaican, and live in Britain. You can be British, German, Polish and Jamaican and live in Ireland.

What's your point?

Junkyard Tom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

why should we tell them they ain't British anymore?

Fewer and fewer Scots, Welsh, and people from the north of Ireland are self-identifying as 'British'. I think it's down to around 50% in Scotland and about 30% in the north of Ireland.

Hamsterchops

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Fewer and fewer Scots, Welsh, and people from the north of Ireland are self-identifying as 'British'. I think it's down to around 50% in Scotland and about 30% in the north of Ireland.

Those stats may or may not be correct, not that it matters anyway, because the point I was making is that if they see themselves as British & claim to be British, then presumably they are. I don't deny that the British identify ebbs & flows over time ...

The NI protocol wrecks their heads, + its doing much commercial damage to the connections (commercial & otherwise) between NI and GB.

Junkyard Tom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The NI protocol wrecks their heads, + its doing much commercial damage to the connections (commercial & otherwise) between NI and GB.

Give it a few months, when the impact of Brexit begins to bite in Britain then we'll see where the real commercial damage is.

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1411337448706260995?s=20

I suspect unionists will pipe-down when they realise the privileges the north has been gifted and the damage they've helped the Tories inflict on GB.

Hamsterchops

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Give it a few months, when the impact of Brexit begins to bite in Britain then we'll see where the real commercial damage is.

Damage to us too, have you tried ordering anything online recently from GB, it's s bloody nightmare, what with customs charges, extra VAT, delays etc :mad:

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

+UPDATE+

UK govt looking at proposals to bring in the British army & militairy logistics to prevent the collapse of supermarket supply chains.

Well that's the last thing they need, military logistics vehicles supplying Sainsbury, Waitrose, Morrisons etc. Any military involvement is asking for trouble.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I suspect unionists will pipe-down when they realise the privileges the north has been gifted and the damage they've helped the Tories inflict on GB.

I don't know what way the land will lie after this latest three month extension-grace period ... that's when the real Brexit damage will kick in up North, when the supermarkets really get cut off from GB, presumably resulting in most stuff being sourced from Europe via Dublin & Rosslare, therefore bypassing GB altogether.

They'll go crackers!

Ironically they could/should have the best of both worlds up there, with one foot in camp GB & the other in the EU single market, but it doesn't seem to be working out like that for them.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you are Irish now. Good stuff.

I have said all along that I am first and foremost northern Irish. I am just glad you are confirming it is a fast growing identity.
Onwards and upwards

I am not Irish
…and if you are struggling to understand - I am no more Irish than a South American is American

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The current size of the Northern Irish identity is only known from polls.

The current size of any identity is only an estimate.
…or maybe you can tell me what size the Irish identity is??

downcow

CelticRambler wrote: »

Does that mean you finally accept that Northern Irish tradition and identity is separate and distinct from being British. Kinda like it says on title page of every UK passport?

Quite the contrary.
The BRITISH passport emphasises our Britishness by specifically naming it.
I love the way OWC gets special mention on the front of all British passports