The Irish protocol.

Seth Brundle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649297#Comment_117649297

I'm not going searching but my memory is fairly clear of you claiming to back the DUP!

Seth Brundle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649301#Comment_117649301

Behind paywall so no idea what it says.

downcow

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649390#Comment_117649390

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649269#Comment_117649269

basically 2000 Uk medicines will not be available in this part of the Uk

Seth Brundle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649417#Comment_117649417

Were those medicines available there pre-Brexit?

Can you provide an example of a medication that will no longer be available in NI and why it won't be available there in a few months?

As you were oigninally against Brexit, you will accept that this situation has been created completely by the UK government. Have you asked your MP to explain why they have allowed this to happen?

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649417#Comment_117649417

As I understand abortion pills were illegal in NI before Brexit and continue to be, but are legal in GB.

What is the difference between this and the above?

Not all drugs in GB are available in NI.

FrancieBrady

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649417#Comment_117649417

Drugs coming into the EU will have to be regulated. Which bit of this were you not aware of when Brexit happened? And guess what? There's flexibilities and workarounds built into the Protocol to get around this if only a certain government were honest and implemented it

Under the protocol, which sets out trading arrangements for Northern Ireland, the region will be treated as part of the EU regulatory system for medicines following a grace period that expires in December.

Drugs made in Great Britain for use in Northern Ireland will have to be licensed separately as well as undergo safety inspections and other checks.

Mark Samuels, chief executive of the British Generic Manufacturers Association, said that as a result, extra warehousing, laboratory testing and technical specialists would be needed. “This duplication could make supplying Northern Ireland in many cases unviable in the longer term,” he added.

With every week that went by, more companies were deciding to remove medicines, said Samuels. “I’m not aware we’ve ever had this scale of withdrawal in one go before.”

The system through which UK health department officials identified replacements for any withdrawn medicines would come under strain, he added.

Samuels said he hoped the British government would “provide additional resources to help handle this situation so we can avoid a crisis”.

The health department did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Peregrinus

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649417#Comment_117649417

What you omit to mention in your summary of the article - and I can't think why you leave this out - is that this is coming from the British Generic Manufacturers Association. These are generic drugs, not subject to patent protection, which can be and are freely manufactured by any producer without paying patent or licence fees to anyone.

Obviously, they're cheap and, obviously, profit margins are not high. What's going on here is that the British Generic Manufacturers are manufacturing for the home market. They don't export at all, because th cost of complying with Brexit red tape would make the exported product uncompetitive in foreign markets, as against generics produced in those markets which don't face Brexit red tape. And, if it's not economic for them to comply with Brexit red tape to supply the vast EU/EEA market, then it certainly won't be economic to comply with the tiny NI market. So they won't supply it.

But this doesn't mean that NI won't be able to get generic drugs. They can get them freely from the very large number of generic manufacturers in the EU, who don't have to comply with Brexit red tape to supply NI. Hell, NI shares a lengthy land border with the third largest exporter of pharmaceuticals in the world. It was probably only ever inertia that led them to get their generics from far-away GB.

So, is this sustainable? Yes, easily. It will hardly affect NI at all; they can still import generic drugs without being burdened by Brexit red tape - just not from GB, but GB is not a very big producer; they'll have to switch suppliers, is all. The loss of the NI market will affect GB generic manufacturers a little bit but - no offence - it's trivial to them compared with the loss of the EU/EEA market that is the consequence of Brexit.

Peregrinus

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649227#Comment_117649227

The notion that NI's problems are inflicted on it by the EU is bizarre; they are plainly the result of a series of choices made by the UK. But, given that notion, then your latest notion that the publication of the British government's command paper on Wednesday signals a change of course by the EU is just as bizarre. The British government's paper might - or might not - tell us something about what the UK will do, but it can't tell us what the EU will do. It makes no sense at all to welcome the British government's command paper as heralding the end of a problem that you believe is caused by the policies of the EU.

Your position is completely incoherent, downcow. You're desperately trying to maintain the belief that NI's Brexit-related woes are inflicted by "the eu, USA and roi" because admitting the truth - that they are inflicted by Westminster, and intentionally so - must shake the whole basis of your unionism, and that's profoundly psychologically challenging. But in your heart you know the truth. You look to the command paper for a solution because you know that in reality only a change of course by the British government can alleviate the problems that NI suffers because of the choices made by the British government.

"I can’t believe that the eu, USA and roi will continue with this nonsense while conflict breaks out in Ireland."

Downcow, if you specify ROI in a post, why be so vague with "Ireland" later in the same post?

This is what you meant to say:

"I can’t believe that the eu, USA and roi will continue with this nonsense while conflict breaks out in the UK."

Why it is up to the EU, the USA and ROI to bend over backwards to stop an internal UK conflict in NI, I don't know. The UK can end almost all checks immediately at any time but doesn't want to as that would mean GB signing up to some standards. Geniuses like yourself think the EU should actually suffer and harm its market rather than GB simply align with NI a bit.

It blows my mind that London has convinced you the EU is the problem so that GB can benefit. That's what it all comes down to. Benefits for England.

Fionn1952

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649248#Comment_117649248

Clarification appreciated, Downcow.

To repeat my earlier question

"Can you tell us anything of substance that has actually changed to create your new found confidence, Downcow?

Apart from a pretty meaningless statement from the UK government and your British courts finding against the legal challenge you put so much faith in as a potential gamechanger, I don't see much. If we follow the trend back, bloviating statements for UK public consumption by your government have tended to be followed by meekly putting the tail between the legs when they've got enough Daily Express headlines out of it.

Nothing has changed; the NI Protocol was always a fantastic opportunity for Unionism to set back Unification by huge strides......as usual though, Unionist insecurity meant ignoring that and rabbiting on about something symbolic while running the pitch in the wrong direction for another own goal."

CaoimhinCong

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649297#Comment_117649297

Uup took in Julie Ann Corr that was a huge scalp for them to claim in North Belfast. She's possibly one of the only progressive loyalists I know of.

donspeekinglesh

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649227#Comment_117649227

M&S? It was the M&S Chairman, former Chief Executive of the Conservative Party, and Shadow Cabinet member. He might have a bit of an agenda here..

Anyway the poor logistics choices made by M&S are their own problem.

Yellow_Fern

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649076#Comment_117649076

Id imagine most of moved on from that. Just like Republicans tend not to endorse political violence now

Seth Brundle

The DUP are still not seeing the wood for the trees bigotry. It is rather unfortunate that they are not reflecting the wishes of the people of NI: it's like they don't care about them.

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1418495155863175170

downcow

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649819#Comment_117649819

You make no sense. Uk voted for Brexit and you want them to abide by eu rules

Seth Brundle

@downcow any chance of listing some of those medications that will no longer be permitted for sale in NI because of the NIP as per my questions to you yesterday?

BluePlanet

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652814#Comment_117652814

The UK voted, signed and ratified a treaty that includes specific provisions for NI to abide by EU rules.

briany

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652958#Comment_117652958

Yes, but when the UK signed that deal, they had their fingers crossed behind their backs and were muttering, "Jinx, jinx, jinx!", sooo checkmate, EU.

fash

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652814#Comment_117652814

If the UK voted for brexit AND its government decided to be outside the SM/CU afterwards, then it is for them to decide where the border goes - either in the sea and a deal with the EU - or a land border and a trade war with the world (and it would be with the world given the knock on repercussions for WTO MFN provisions and the necessary waivers that would need to be implemented on GB borders.

Cabaal

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117269720#Comment_117269720

There's bigger problems if the protocol is removed,

At the end of the day BoJo agreed to this protocol saying he got a great deal, if he didn't read or more worryingly understand what he was agreeing to thats not the EU's fault. The protocol represents what BoJo wanted at the time.

Cabaal

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649449#Comment_117649449

Indeed, not all products and services are available in NI, this is very common.

Lots of adverts on the telly state not available in Northern Ireland.

This really is no different and again its what BoJo agreed to. It's funny how NI wants to claim its part of the UK but yet it refuses to align laws on lots of things (abortion is just one example). It's almost as if its uk when it suits....

Cabaal

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653096#Comment_117653096

Except its not, the UK can't just throw out parts of the good friday agreement as they see fit. As such they cannot decide the hard border (because thats what it would have to be) can be between Republic and N.Ireland.

Don't you think the uk not breaking an international peace agreement is more important than anything else?

I would pay little attention to the likes of the DUP who want the above to happen, because ultimately they were the ONLY major politcal part on the whole Ireland who were against the good friday agreement. Imagine that for a second, against peace...it boggles the mind.

BonnieSituation

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649227#Comment_117649227

Is this another one of those fabled loyalist threats of violence?

Keep going to the well I guess.

downcow

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649388#Comment_117649388

Absolutely not. Can’t stand the arrogance and sectarianism of either dup or shin Fein

downcow

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649841#Comment_117649841

I think you’ll find it’s not new found confidence. I have always been confident that we will keep the best bits of the arrangements and get rid of the vast majority of Irish Sea checks. I have no problem with sensible checks eg to maintain bio security of animals on the island, but that is both directions across the Irish Sea and always has been

downcow

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652841#Comment_117652841

I’ll check for you but I know there are significant cancer drugs falling into this category and there would be an issue getting COVID vaccines if COVID had struck a couple of years later

downcow

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653161#Comment_117653161

You are struggling to understand how the Uk works

hardly that surprising when you live in a country that thinks it’s ok for the national broadcaster to play the angelus every night. But then sure your great leader said it was a catholic country for a catholic people so I suppose they did warn us all

Seth Brundle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653436#Comment_117653436

I look forward to seeing some examples soon.

What makes you think that covid meds would not be allowed in the future?

PCeeeee

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649174#Comment_117649174

Unfortunately Downcow, Spain is no longer comparable to Ireland. Down here you enjoy the freedom of the FTA. As indeed I would should I visit the UK. As a UK citizen Europe no longer as open to you as it once was.

fash

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653176#Comment_117653176

Well they can throw out parts of the GFA if they want - the issue is what Ireland will do about it. Of course I doubt Ireland would accept that or that the UK would be able to withstand the international pressure for long - but those are separate questions.