The Irish protocol.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117667911#Comment_117667911

I think you have done that much spinning and pivoting that you have confused yourself.

You are not alone, political Unionism in it's entirety seems to be in terminal confusion.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117667141#Comment_117667141

No idea what you are on about. You are getting like Francis who believes he should follow EU blindly.

I absolutely withhold the right to challenge my government when it gets it wrong.

mad for the court case it is at a very early stage and there will be several turns along this road.

I wonder if it goes the other direction on appeal will you be asking for the government to scrap the protocol?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117667963#Comment_117667963

Why would we in Ireland ask your government to scrap the Protocol.

The 'court' cases are an internal UK matter.

We in the EU can but sit and watch and IF your courts decide the Protocol is unlawful then it is UP TO your government to offer an alternative proposal to deal with the same issue the Protocol did.

In effect, you will force the rest of the UK back into No Deal territory. Good luck, if you achieve that foot shooting feat.

Seth Brundle

just to add to what Francie wrote above: "We in the EU can but sit and watch and IF your courts decide the Protocol is unlawful then it is UP TO your government to offer an alternative proposal to deal with the same issue the Protocol did."

Whatever the UK were to propose would also need to be accepted by each of the EU27 so the UK can think up what it thinks is acceptable but the EU have no need to change from the currently legally binding arrangements (regardless of the UK courts) if they deem its alternative to be below par.

BluePlanet

So much of Article 16 places the onus on changes that cause the least disturbance to the functioning of the NIP. So the NIP is going nowhere.

Article 16 Safeguards

1. If the application of this Protocol leads to serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade, the Union or the United Kingdom may unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures. Such safeguard measures shall be restricted with regard to their scope and duration to what is strictly necessary in order to remedy the situation. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.

2. If a safeguard measure taken by the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, in accordance with paragraph 1 creates an imbalance between the rights and obligations under this Protocol, the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, may take such proportionate rebalancing measures as are strictly necessary to remedy the imbalance. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.

3. Safeguard and rebalancing measures taken in accordance with paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be governed by the procedures set out in Annex 7 to this Protocol.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668119#Comment_117668119

A section of belligerent Unionists are being led up constitutional and legal blind alley's by the likes of Sammy Wilson and Jamie Bryson spouting cod legal speak.

Sammy nor Jamie will be nowhere to be seen when the **** hits the fan though and will just pivot again and blame somebody else. Rinse and repeat.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668119#Comment_117668119

Agreed. I say again, a protocol is not only required but it is gold to ni. We just have to get rid of the crap bits and I am confident that will happen before there is any violent conflict on this island. It’s a no-brainier

swampgas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668240#Comment_117668240

GB could try some basic alignment on food standards, that would eliminate a lot of the checks. If the Westminster government refuses to do that, then of course we need to keep checking everything passing between GB and NI. Maybe ask your MP about it?

Seth Brundle

The "crap bits" are there to protect the integrity of the SM and to ensure that the lowering of food quality standards by the UK does not affect the EU.

Were the EU to agree to the potential solutions you put forward e.g. trusted trader etc, do you think Johnson will be happy to see his Brexit further humiliated given that England won't have those benefits?

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668302#Comment_117668302

Indeed, one has to seriously consider if the UK government's reluctance to implement measures, entirely within its own sovereign jurisdiction, which would enable the free flow of goods and smooth operation of the NI Protocol is part of a longer term political aim to increasingly move NI to the political and economic periphery of the UK with the ultimate aim of divesting itself of NI entirely while hiding behind the plausible deniability of  it all being the EU's fault. Damned foreigners, a shifty lot you know, just can't be trusted! 😏

BluePlanet

It's a good point. Why doesn't Britain simply align with the EU on things like sanitary and phytosanitary standards, (standards Britain has been compliant with since what, 1975?) as this would probably reduce the bulk of the trade friction.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668580#Comment_117668580

England apparently would rather be able to lower its standards which would allow it to import from far-off countries with less than ideal food production standards. Hormone beef or chlorinated chicken for anyone? Plus, if Britain were to align itself now, it would be a massive embarrasing admittance that Brexit is as was predicted - a total failure of British governance by a cohort of incompetent and/or self-serving politicians along with a corrupt media

BluePlanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669014#Comment_117669014

But it doesn't have to mean that. They can still sell it as a gain of independence, successfully withdrawing from the EU while maintaining frictionless trade with the bloc.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669075#Comment_117669075

They would be reminded that they've left the EU but still have to follow its rules. The media would crucify them.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117666870#Comment_117666870

Interesting that you take the view that business groups being happy with the Protocol is a good thing. It is the first time I have heard from you that business should be looked after (other than opening the pubs during Covid). Normally, there is a non-stop complaint about Apple or the FG government being too close to business.

The problem with the Protocol is one I identified months ago - the sandwich issue I called it, but it applies to sausages and other food as well. The punters don't like change in their supermarkets, they want the brands and tastes that they are familiar with. Yet, you and other posters ridiculed my point, but it is coming home to roost. At the end of the day, the Protocol won't succeed if it becomes identified with punishing the ordinary guy in the street. There is a lesson there for the Little Irelanders as well who don't realise that they need to ensure losses are eliminated in any move towards a united Ireland.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669195#Comment_117669195

You were called out for this nonsense months ago and ran away.

Why return to peddle this nonsense again?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669195#Comment_117669195

Oh lord no...not the 'Unionists won't vote for a UI because their sandwich tastes funny' stuff again?

😁😁

The Protocol a few months ago, when you were at this nonsense, and now, is going nowhere.

The will be easements and adjustments though.

blanch152

The adjustments will be to take account of the very points that I have made, once again showing I had a better idea of the way the wind was blowing. To help you understand the issue, here is a crash course:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/give-me-a-crash-course-in-the-latest-in-the-eu-uk-sausage-war-1.4608836

"Shortages of British products in Northern Ireland’s supermarkets have angered some in the Unionist-Loyalist community "

I said it would happen, you said it was nonsense, then it happened, and yet you still claim it is nonsense. You might want to put away the shovels. Food on the supermarket shelves is a real issue.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669282#Comment_117669282

Bullshit, that wasn't what you were referring to when you went on your sandwich fantasy. You were saying it would influence their choice in a UI referendum. You are some chancer, I'll give you that.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669282#Comment_117669282

Let's be very clear, Blanch. Unrest is being fomented by those who are being inconvenienced in their attempts to bring certain other products into NI, which increased checks are making problematic.

I'd imagine the vast majority of sausages sold and consumed in NI are made by Cookstown, Dennys and Galtee. Having a look for British sausage brands online, I don't recall seeing any in the NI supermarkets apart from the supermarket own brands.

Nobody is concerned about the Protocol because they're afraid of an Irish versus an English pork sausage, or how a cheap prepacked BLT sandwich might taste so dramatically different.

Most moderate Unionists don't give a toss if the product in their Breakfast roll comes from Ireland or Britain (indeed nor do moderate Nationalists). Essentially a couple of jumped up drug dealers are experiencing supply chain difficulties and a very loud group of their usual mouthpieces have pretty much invented the concern about supermarket produce. It's C grade propaganda at best, further seized on by those who wish to increase the divide between NI and Ireland in NI, and those in Britain who are upset they didn't get the Hard Brexit they wanted.

Worst of all, it is completely at odds with the reality of the situation; NI has full shelves, Britain is experiencing a number of shortages and we're supposed to believe that anyone reasonably believes NI got the sh*tty end of the stick?!

Most importantly this is precisely the square root of F all to do with the nonsense you were peddling about Sainsburys a while ago.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669429#Comment_117669429

Most importantly this is precisely the square root of F all to do with the nonsense you were peddling about Sainsburys a while ago.

Trying to turn his Sainsbury faux pas into something relevant really is the height of mis-representation. Of himself this time.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669373#Comment_117669373

And you don't think it will? Come on Francie, you don't think that people are going to vote for some random fantasy of a united Ireland without knowing how it will affect the goods in the shops, the tax they pay, the social welfare they receive, the job in the hospital they have, their children's schooling etc. etc. etc.

Of course these things will affect their decisions. If you have shopped in Sainsbury's for 40 years, you won't want to change just so that there can be a united Ireland. Your continued underestimation of this demographic is entertaining though.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669549#Comment_117669549

What harm. If the choice of supermarket influences your vote in a UI then I say more fool you. Probably best to take that strawman to the appropriate thread though.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669571#Comment_117669571

Not a strawman, it is influencing discussions on the Protocol, but you think it won't influence the wider issue with wider implications of a united Ireland. Fair enough, unfortunately I don't think I will ever be able to say I told you so, but if the incredible happens and we get a border poll, I will be back to remind you.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669429#Comment_117669429

Let me see, I have the choice of believing an anonymous internet poster or the chief executives of companies including Sainsbury’s, Marks and Spencer and Tesco, tough one that.

https://www.newfoodmagazine.com/news/134195/northern-ireland-shortages/

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-supermarkets-warn-of-cliff-edge-for-northern-ireland-supplies-12186740

"UK supermarket chains have demanded government intervention to prevent "unworkable" new Brexit regulations causing disruption to food supplies to Northern Ireland."

I don't know, maybe you are right, and all those supermarket chief executives are wrong.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669549#Comment_117669549

Delusional stuff.

But thanks for owning up to it not having anything to do with the Protocol when you first spouted it.

BTW I am sure there will be a demographic who won't vote for a UI because the colour green gives them the yips too. Of course there will be a demographic who will decide on the availability of a pickle sandwich too. How fecking ironic would it be that they cause the demise of Sainsbury's and M&S in NI by voting for Brexit. 😁

I'm sure you'll be on taking their side too and blaming the dastardly Irish nationalists.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669640#Comment_117669640

Christ almighty, if I say that ordinary everyday issues will be a problem in a united Ireland context, then it goes without saying that they will be a problem in a more minor issue such as the Protocol. That doesn't need to be spelled out each and every time. Pedantic analysis is desperation.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669669#Comment_117669669

So what the f* are you saying? That the EU should roll over because somebody cannot get their pickled onion sarny?

There is no public vote on the Protocol BTW.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669615#Comment_117669615

You'll note the date on that article, Blanch.....

Absolutely disingenuous as usual. The article (posted in January) involved those chief executives complaining about the 31st March 'cliff edge' ending of the Grace Period not giving them sufficient time to adjust.

To quote from the article;

"We recognise the European Commission needs to see increased compliance to support the concessions it granted through the Northern Ireland protocol but the current proposals, increased bureaucracy and certification in such a short timescale, are unworkable."

You'll note that it is now JULY and (despite the initial refusal on the British side), the Grace Period has been extended to allow them more time to adapt. Their concern is clearly with regards to how quickly they were expected to adapt, not with the content of the NI Protocol itself.

Care to point out what in the name of Christ that article about the timescales to adjust supply chains has to do with your assertion that Unionists are afraid of Irish sausages and sandwiches?

As usual, you throw in complete non-sequiturs that in no way support your nonsensical argument, continue to demonstrate all the understanding of NI of someone who read about it once in a newspaper and I suspect you'll finish off with your usual run away and refuse to acknowledge how blatantly wrong you are when shown as demonstrably thus.

We'll add it to the list along with your assertions around Alliance Party supporting NI Independence, people not voting for Unification because they will only shop in Sainsburys, accusing me of whataboutery for directly responding to a subject you introduced to a thread and now apparently chief executives concerns about timelines somehow demonstrating that NI Unionists are afraid of Irish sausages (despite the fact that they primarily eat Cookstown, Galtee and Dennys).

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669695#Comment_117669695

Never said that Unionists were afraid of Irish sausages and sandwiches, that is a completely disingenuous twisting of my posts. A complete misrepresentation designed to cover your blushes.

How you fail to see that the extension of the grace period once again last month vindicates the point of the sandwiches and sausages being of importance is beyond me. If it was so easy and the Protocol is so good and the people aren't bothered by the empty shelves, then why the hell did the EU agree to extend the grace period? Furthermore, that wasn't the only letter, the supermarkets wrote again last month:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-57879007

""If no action is taken, then it will be the people the Northern Ireland, with half of the discretionary income of Great Britain households, who bear the brunt of this stalemate - meaning less choice and higher costs for essential food purchases.""

Remember, this is the solution that was trumpeted on here by SF supporters as their one, one that is going to force more people in Northern Ireland into poverty, according to that article.

"The letter from the six supermarkets was sent to the UK's Brexit Minister Lord Frost, and Maroš Šefčovič, vice-president of the European Commission.

"Our members made significant investments in the last few months to avoid disruption, yet disruption will become inevitable if the regime that will come into force in October is unrealistic and disproportionately onerous," Ms Dickinson said.

"Retailers have shown their compliance; the government and EU must now help us by removing the barriers to GB-NI supply chains.""

I am confident that in the end a solution will be found, and it will be a solution that ensures that the supermarkets get their way. What you don't get and you continually fail to realise is that Northern Ireland is a different place.

Put away the shovel on this one.