Things self builders fail to take into consideration/underestimate

newhouse87

sydthebeat wrote: »

youll always here the (embellished) successful self build stories of great savings etc...

but you hardly ever hear the disaster stories of the stress, mistakes, long build time, poor workmanship etc stories... because people never want to admit they were wrong.

successful self builds are all dependent on planning. everything must be planned for, every decision made and fixed before sod is turned, and every nail priced for.

I agree good planing is essential, have been planning a year in advance of turning sod. All them problems can arise with contractors too, the problems maybe even worse as if you are not keeping an eye on each trade the contractor can hide mistakes easier.

the_pen_turner

newhouse87 wrote: »

I have prices agreed, they are not getting anymore, its that simple, alot of them taking bits of cash too. i know this wont all run smoothly, but im not getting stressed over delays, im not in any mad rush or deadline to meet.

you would want to check your fine print.
the price is dependant on you keeping your endd of the deal

newhouse87

the_pen_turner wrote: »

you would want to check your fine print.
the price is dependant on you keeping your endd of the deal

Haven't even got fine print, you will think its mad but these all verbal agreements as all are taking cash. Local lads know if they screw local person, word of mouth will ruin their reps.

the_pen_turner

newhouse87 wrote: »

Haven't even got fine print, you will think its mad but these all verbal agreements as all are taking cash. Local lads know if they screw local person, word of mouth will ruin their reps.

but its you that would be screwing them

newhouse87

the_pen_turner wrote: »

but its you that would be screwing them

look obviously thats not my intention and so far things have gone smooth but that will change im sure, i just dont think its worth the money paying a contractor, they are charging exorbitant figures at the moment, if mine takes longer so be it.

awec

newhouse87 wrote: »

I have prices agreed, they are not getting anymore, its that simple, alot of them taking bits of cash too. i know this wont all run smoothly, but im not getting stressed over delays, im not in any mad rush or deadline to meet.

I know very little about building houses but even I know this is not how it works.

newhouse87

awec wrote: »

I know very little about building houses but even I know this is not how it works.

it is when you are paying cash and know the tradesmen.

ec18

newhouse87 wrote: »

look obviously thats not my intention and so far things have gone smooth but that will change im sure, i just dont think its worth the money paying a contractor, they are charging exorbitant figures at the moment, if mine takes longer so be it.

If you have a retired builder relative that's willing to do it for free it's definitely not worth the money paying a contractor.....

If you don't have access to said relative then whether to pay the contractor or not has vastly different pros and cons

newhouse87

ec18 wrote: »

If you have a retired builder relative that's willing to do it for free it's definitely not worth the money paying a contractor.....

If you don't have access to said relative then whether to pay the contractor or not has vastly different pros and cons

3 of my friends recently done it with no retired builder to oversee, i can see the pros of a contractor but contractors also have you over barrel if they want more money, as they can stop all the trades. If you are not rushing a self build is the only way imo. You save money everywhere compared to a contractor. I do agree its good to have knowledgeable person overseeing things but it would be worth paying 1 retired guy cash to keep eye on workmanship rather then a contractor who will add money to everything single thing he does.

Wildly Boaring

BTW i note your 50k saving is for trades working for cash.

You say 300k plus 50k site vs 400k quote from contractor.

If reality to compare like with like it's 300k + 13.5% + 50k
So 340.5 plus 50 equals a 9500 saving.

So the question is actually is a contractor build or an illegal build cheaper??

ec18

newhouse87 wrote: »

3 of my friends recently done it with no retired builder to oversee, i can see the pros of a contractor but contractors also have you over barrel if they want more money, as they can stop all the trades. If you are not rushing a self build is the only way imo. You save money everywhere compared to a contractor. I do agree its good to have knowledgeable person overseeing things but it would be worth paying 1 retired guy cash to keep eye on workmanship rather then a contractor who will add money to everything single thing he does.

Look fair play to you for saving a bit of cash. But it's disingenuous to be on a public forum saying self builds are the best way to do it and all a contractor will do is try and rip you off. When on your build you're availing of a free PM/contractor.

Are your friends total newbies with no connection to the industries? and they all worked full time jobs while doing it? From lurking on this forum most of the questions come from people who have heard of the mad savings you can make self building. Most likely from someone like yourself, who left at all the little details like having a family member PM and knowing all the trades.

It's unfair to them to make the general statement that all contractors rip you off and that self build is the only way to go when you aren't being up front on how yours was really built.

newhouse87

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

BTW i note your 50k saving is for trades working for cash.

You say 300k plus 50k site vs 400k quote from contractor.

If reality to compare like with like it's 300k + 13.5% + 50k
So 340.5 plus 50 equals a 9500 saving.

So the question is actually is a contractor build or an illegal build cheaper??

no you misunderstood its 300k including 50k site. I reckon 50k is the minimum saving for a 600sq foot house bigger, btw nothing llegall in what im doing paying cash as far as i can tell, its not up to me to make tradesmen pay tax. you seem to have problem with me trying to do this cheaper, don't understand why.

Friend 260k 2000 sq foot house, he then has to furnish and pay site 55K and on tip of that, i reckon i will be done all in for 300k for 2600sq ft, its massive difference and i have much bigger house at the end of it.

newhouse87

ec18 wrote: »

Look fair play to you for saving a bit of cash. But it's disingenuous to be on a public forum saying self builds are the best way to do it and all a contractor will do is try and rip you off. When on your build you're availing of a free PM/contractor.

Are your friends total newbies with no connection to the industries? and they all worked full time jobs while doing it? From lurking on this forum most of the questions come from people who have heard of the mad savings you can make self building. Most likely from someone like yourself, who left at all the little details like having a family member PM and knowing all the trades.

It's unfair to them to make the general statement that all contractors rip you off and that self build is the only way to go when you aren't being up front on how yours was really built.

Yes my friends have no relation to the industry and yes of course all help down jobs, talk to most rural people they do the same . contractors are more expensive i dont think that is up for the debate, people seem to think if they hired a contractor thats what everybody should do and begrudge others saving money by putting in more effort themselves. BTW i have been totally upfront about how mine is being built, hence these arguments.

ec18

newhouse87 wrote: »

Yes my friends have no relation to the industry and yes of course all help down jobs, talk to most rural people they do the same . contractors are more expensive i dont think that is up for the debate, people seem to think if they hired a contractor thats what everybody should do and begrudge others saving money by putting in more effort themselves.

The point you seem to be continually missing is that you have a free contractor/foreman/supervisor. Where as someone who doesn't have that will have to take time off work to do it (which would cost them in salary/time spent etc) or pay someone. Also you aren't putting in more work your relative is.

That's what the point myself and others are trying to make is that the 50K saving you keep referencing is not available to all self builders who don't have access to the knowledge and trades that you have via family links.

And therefore shouldn't be generalised to 'everyone' can make the same savings.

newhouse87

ec18 wrote: »

The point you seem to be continually missing is that you have a free contractor/foreman/supervisor. Where as someone who doesn't have that will have to take time off work to do it (which would cost them in salary/time spent etc) or pay someone. Also you aren't putting in more work your relative is.

That's what the point myself and others are trying to make is that the 50K saving you keep referencing is not available to all self builders who don't have access to the knowledge and trades that you have via family links.

And therefore shouldn't be generalised to 'everyone' can make the same savings.

I have repeatedly said my friends have recently done it working away with no relative to oversee things. Have you done a self build? 100% everybody can make savings by self building.

ec18

newhouse87 wrote: »

I have repeatedly said my friends have recently done it working away with no relative to oversee things. Have you done a self build? 100% everybody can make savings by self building.

did they all save 50K? and the build was perfect? no issues ?

enricoh

sydthebeat wrote: »

youll always here the (embellished) successful self build stories of great savings etc...

but you hardly ever hear the disaster stories of the stress, mistakes, long build time, poor workmanship etc stories... because people never want to admit they were wrong.

successful self builds are all dependent on planning. everything must be planned for, every decision made and fixed before sod is turned, and every nail priced for.

Getting a builder isn't the be all and end all either. My cousin got a top dollar builder to do hers and house had to be pulled apart after a few years.
I self built mine, had a mate that was a bricky n just used lads he knew over the years. Wasn't major hassle but took longer than a builder would, had a mobile home on site so not renting. That was 4 years ago materials and labour have gone up a lot since!
If you have to go googling for trades forget it, yer a lamb to the slaughter!

newhouse87

ec18 wrote: »

did they all save 50K? and the build was perfect? no issues ?

You seem passive aggressive, they all done it for cheaper than a contractor would, contractors never have issues and always perfect builds? Priory hall just of the top of me head, if you have a dodgy contractor all the trades working for him will probably be dodgy and half arssd too.

newhouse87

enricoh wrote: »

Getting a builder isn't the be all and end all either. My cousin got a top dollar builder to do hers and house had to be pulled apart after a few years.
I self built mine, had a mate that was a bricky n just used lads he knew over the years. Wasn't major hassle but took longer than a builder would, had a mobile home on site so not renting. That was 4 years ago materials and labour have gone up a lot since!
If you have to go googling for trades forget it, yer a lamb to the slaughter!

That's the point im getting at, if you know the local tradesman like most rural people do, its as safe if not safer than a contractor for quality work as they don't want their rep to be bad if they do shoddy work.

ec18

newhouse87 wrote: »

You seem passive aggressive, they all done it for cheaper than a contractor would, contractors never have issues and always perfect builds?

I'm not passive aggressive, and I'm not saying that contractors are perfect. Just trying to point out that making a blanket statement that you can save 50K self building when,

• You have a free PM
• Have mates doing it cash in hand
• Have all the costs fixed (whether you do it not by the end)

Is a bit misleading

BryanF

newhouse87 wrote: »

nope but have my prices got, my friend got quote for 260k for 2000 sq ft house, thats no interior furnishings or kitchen, im estimating i will have 2600sq ft house done all in 300k including 50k site and all fees etc. His will be near 400k all in.

Newhouse, we’ll leave it there thanks. You’ve confirmed, that you have not completed your build, and OP looks for advice from those who have self built

Separately, note we obey the law in this forum, so please refrain from discussing the black economy.

newhouse87

ec18 wrote: »

I'm not passive aggressive, and I'm not saying that contractors are perfect. Just trying to point out that making a blanket statement that you can save 50K self building when,

• You have a free PM
• Have mates doing it cash in hand
• Have all the costs fixed (whether you do it not by the end)

Is a bit misleading

Ok but in rural Ireland the last 2 points are available to everybody. I was pm for initial start of the house and didnt find it too taxing, i just think people here are exaggerating how difficult self builds are.

newhouse87

BryanF wrote: »

Newhouse, we’ll leave it there thanks. You’ve confirmed, that you have not completed your build, and OP looks for advice from those who have self built

Separately, note we obey the law in this forum, so please refrain from discussing the black economy.

Thought being in the middle of it, i would be ok to give my experience so far.

Wildly Boaring

newhouse87 wrote: »

no you misunderstood its 300k including 50k site. I reckon 50k is the minimum saving for a 600sq foot house bigger, btw nothing llegall in what im doing paying cash as far as i can tell, its not up to me to make tradesmen pay tax. you seem to have problem with me trying to do this cheaper, don't understand why.

Friend 260k 2000 sq foot house, he then has to furnish and pay site 55K and on tip of that, i reckon i will be done all in for 300k for 2600sq ft, its massive difference and i have much bigger house at the end of it.

I have no problem with you doing it cheaper
I have helped out several self-builders to get them over the line
I've seen the stress it's caused the most able of people
I've seen the effort put in by savage workers (farmers/trades/engineers)
And yes all of this happened "Down the country"

You are doing a self build for 50k cheaper.
I agreed self build is at 50k cheaper but there are pitfalls for the uninitiated.

Backtrack - Oh actually I have my father to PM
Backtrack - Oh all the trades are cash, sure tax is up to them wink wink
Oh and you foresaw the increase in material costs like a savant.
I suppose if the cost of a material falls you've that covered too.

Sure every construction project ever planned was going to be on time and on budget. And every PM ever has covered off scope creep, managed out decision making and tied suppliers to current material costs.........




Edit: Apologies BryanF was writing when you posted

newhouse87

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I have no problem with you doing it cheaper
I have helped out several self-builders to get them over the line
I've seen the stress it's caused the most able of people
I've seen the effort put in by savage workers (farmers/trades/engineers)
And yes all of this happened "Down the country"

You are doing a self build for 50k cheaper.
I agreed self build is at 50k cheaper but there are pitfalls for the uninitiated.

Backtrack - Oh actually I have my father to PM
Backtrack - Oh all the trades are cash, sure tax is up to them wink wink
Oh and you foresaw the increase in material costs like a savant.
I suppose if the cost of a material falls you've that covered too.

Sure every construction project ever planned was going to be on time and on budget. And every PM ever has covered off scope creep, managed out decision making and tied suppliers to current material costs.........

Again with the aggressive posting, anybody doing a self build will pay some cash, i didn't backtrack,in my second post here i think i said my father was overseeing it. Yes look at my posts about insulation months back on here, i was told by the local rep in chadwicks about materials going up so i had to buy insulation and timber, even stored the roof timber at my home house. Im trying to give alternative opinion to the op rather then the doom and glook of self build here. I reckon some of ye are contractors or something or regret not doing self builds.

"yeah will do, would just like to know has anybody got any companies in Europe that they have used before. Insulation costs are going up again in January i hear.". Posted on another thread by me on 21dec20

sydthebeat

You don't make savings by going self build.

You earn the money by doing the work yourself

newhouse87

sydthebeat wrote: »

You don't make savings by going self build.

You earn the money by doing the work yourself

No getting individual tradesmen is simply cheaper then a contractor hiring them all in and he adding euros onto each one of them. This is fact.

sydthebeat

newhouse87 wrote: »

No getting individual tradesmen is simply cheaper then a contractor hiring them all in and he adding euros onto each one of them. This is fact.

nope.
youre getting them cheaper cos your paying cash on the black market.

a contractor can get trades cheaper by either employing full time or by offering repeat employment.

this is fact

newhouse87

sydthebeat wrote: »

nope.
youre getting them cheaper cos your paying cash on the black market.

a contractor can get trades cheaper by either employing full time or by offering repeat employment.

this is fact

Contractor's take cash too so your point is moot, i guarantee its cheaper to hire them individually rather then having a contractor get them in. The contractor is getting paid to hire them so its impossible for a contractor to be cheaper then hiring them yourself.

riewomann

newhouse87 wrote: »

i reckon i will be done all in for 300k for 2600sq ft, its massive difference and i have much bigger house at the end of it.

That's a lot of house for 300k.

Good contractors are expensive. Quality tradesmen are expensive. Nice finishes are expensive.

Would be very interested in how your dream house turns out at just over 1k per s/m. Any project I currently have on the books are running significantly higher and elsewhere in the industry it is similar. Of course paying tax may increase it a bit, oh and certificates of compliance.

A set of tender documents can be most helpful to deal with claims, and I've yet to see a job where there wasn't one.