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Giro D'Italia Stage 6: Grotte di Frasassi to Ascoli Piceno (San Giacomo) (160km)

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    #92
    G1032
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭G1032


    at1withmyself wrote: »
    Whole team should be removed for that, that type of behaviour should not be tolerated!

    Is there something we're missing here? What kind of behaviour?


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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bike exchange DS kicked out of the race, I wasn't aware riders are no longer allowed to leave jackets with their own team car under the new rules.

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-bikeexchange-ds-booted-from-giro-ditalia-after-running-team-car-into-serry/


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    #94
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,170 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Bike exchange DS kicked out of the race, I wasn't aware riders are no longer allowed to leave jackets with their own team car under the new rules.

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-bikeexchange-ds-booted-from-giro-ditalia-after-running-team-car-into-serry/


    I dont see were it says they cant I assume maybe there was no BE car nearby at the time so the commissaire was just doing a favour


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    #95
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    I dont see were it says they cant I assume maybe there was no BE car nearby at the time so the commissaire was just doing a favour

    It was something they mentioned on the breakaway after the stage.


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    #96
    at1withmyself
    Registered Users Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭at1withmyself


    G1032 wrote: »
    Is there something we're missing here? What kind of behaviour?

    Eh, car running over a rider I think is worthy of a punishment. That's ridiculous behaviour, the driver should be watching the road at all times, really not complicated.


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    #97
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    at1withmyself wrote: »
    Eh, car running over a rider I think is worthy of a punishment. That's ridiculous behaviour, the driver should be watching the road at all times, really not complicated.

    Shouldn't have happened. Totally unforgivable, and they should be sanctioned.

    But driving in the cavalcade is a massive skill. I haven't done it (I never will!) but I have been the passenger in the head comm car in a stage race and it's extremely tricky. Riders everywhere, riders on the bumper, riders getting dropped, literally everywhere. It's not like driving down the road with a club spin in front of you. I do not have the nerve for it at all. Or the beeping skills! You definitely have to have raced to do it.


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    #98
    G1032
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭G1032


    at1withmyself wrote: »
    Eh, car running over a rider I think is worthy of a punishment. That's ridiculous behaviour, the driver should be watching the road at all times, really not complicated.

    Am, it was crazy. Ridiculous. But it was an accident and not really a behavioural issue...... It's not like the driver goes around doing this all the time. He made a mistake. He's been punished. Behaviour - nah, sorry, not the right word to describe what happened


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    #99
    MangleBadger
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    I'm not 100% but from what I've read it was the DS who was driving. Which I think is stupid. They are constantly on the radio and distracted. In such a hectic scenario the driver should be 100% only focussing on driving.


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    #100
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I don't know if it was the Movistar documentary or the Mitchelton-Scott one where they did some focus on the drivers and that most of them are actually ex pros.


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    #101
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,449 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    In most cases it's going to be team staff of some description. I'm not sure if there's a way around - independent drivers from a pool? But that'd cripple some races.

    You can see from the Flanders documentaries how many near misses there are.

    In a wider context, shows the dangers of distracted driving. This was people in a bike race who care about people on bikes. Not all the gobshítes using their phones on open roads who couldn't give a feck about vulnerable road users....


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    #102
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Spot on. I’m sure the DS is absolutely gutted he hit Serry. He made a mistake and got (correctly) punished for it

    The fact this is such a one off shows they don’t really need to change much here.


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    #103
    Mefistofelino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    G1032 wrote: »
    Am, it was crazy. Ridiculous. But it was an accident and not really a behavioural issue...... It's not like the driver goes around doing this all the time. He made a mistake. He's been punished. Behaviour - nah, sorry, not the right word to describe what happened

    I'm going to disagree a little.

    it may be the BEX drivers first incident but it the interaction of cavalcade vehicles and riders is a serious issue. We've had the likes Hoogerland knocked into a fence, the neutral service cars pushing riders off the road, Antoine Demoitié killed by being struck by a race motorbike. Look at the state of any team or neutral service car after a season - the corners are rounded off from hitting stuff.

    IMO, the situation is getting worse because there is even a greater number of distractions in the car. It used to be 2 way radio, then a few got very basic TVS. Now its ipads on the dash showing live coverage and mobile phones into the mix. The very excellent "behind the scenes" videos on the Flanders Classics Youtube channel give a very good flavour of the level of distraction. Add to that that that its very easy to get swept up in the excitement of the race - I've been in the cavalcade as both a driver and passenger and some drivers behave as if they are on a qualifying lap.


    The fact that the DS is a former racer doesn't quite wash, for me. We wouldn't tolerate close, fast passes on out commute just because the drive was Lewis Hamilton - especially if he was on the phone, watching Eurosport and handing out a sticky bottle at the time. The race collisions are not intentional - just generally due to inattention - but the same could be said about many of the day-to-day cycling close passes and collisions we all see. I'm not sure why we tolerate certain actions because "cycling".

    Look, I don't know what the answer is. Perhaps the cars undergo pre-race scrutineering to ensure the driver cannot see or access anything except "driving stuff". Or incidents attract an equivalent punishment to what would occur in the "outside world" - run a rider off? Completely banned from races for the next 3-6 months. But it would be nice to address it before the next Pieter Serry falls right instead of left and disappears under the chief commissaires car. Or the car takes out a spectator. Apart from the tragedy of the accident, if that happens here you can probably kiss goodbye to Cycling Ireland getting insurance cover.


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    #104
    wpd
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭wpd


    I see Nico is saying the bike exchange team car ran into the back of their team car during the stage as well
    not a good day out if the same driver


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    #105
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,449 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Mefistofelino wrote: »
    it may be the BEX drivers first incident but it the interaction of cavalcade vehicles and riders is a serious issue. We've had the likes Hoogerland knocked into a fence, the neutral service cars pushing riders off the road, Antoine Demoitié killed by being struck by a race motorbike. Look at the state of any team or neutral service car after a season - the corners are rounded off from hitting stuff.
    I don't disagree about the removal of distractions from the drivers, or downplay the incidents, but I guess there has to be some context in the number of incidents v the number of races (pro and amateur). I'm not sure they'd be much support for a constant barrage with the cars always kept behind the last riders/ group?

    Also, Antoine was hit after crashing and the following motorbike not having time to stop/ avoid. I accept that's an issue in of itself as to how close they get, but possibly slightly different.


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    #106
    MangleBadger
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    I think it is just a matter of separation of duties. If you are the DS you should be the passenger. If you are the driver your job should be to drive and let the DS do his job in the passenger seat.


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    #107
    RunDMC
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭RunDMC


    Among the new safety measures announced at the beginning of the year were new requirements for driver and moto pilots including training and certification requirements and a penalty points system. I'm not sure that these have been implemented yet, but it seems like a good idea. I think that thus would actually benefits rider safety.

    Meanwhile the worlds press were focused on the super-tuck ban.

    Lots of good details here:

    https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/publications/2021/2021-uci-road-guidelines-for-circulation-eng.pdf

    More details of the safety measures implemented:

    https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2021-uci-guide-safety-en.pdf

    But I do beleive that more interaction between riders and team-cars is a "bad thing".

    R


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    #108
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    MangleBadger wrote: »
    I think it is just a matter of separation of duties. If you are the DS you should be the passenger. If you are the driver your job should be to drive and let the DS do his job in the passenger seat.

    They don’t have the staff to do it. The passenger is the one who checks all the stats, monitors everything etc. The DS drives because he’s only needed occasionally.

    They can’t afford someone just to be a driver


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    #109
    Mefistofelino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Dodge wrote: »
    They don’t have the staff to do it. The passenger is the one who checks all the stats, monitors everything etc. The DS drives because he’s only needed occasionally.

    They can’t afford someone just to be a driver

    In the Quickstep and Lotto cars, Wilfried Peeters and Herman Frison are doing everything from the drivers seat. The assistant DS role seems mainly to be to feed the DS and mop his fevered brow.


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    #110
    Large bottle small glass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    @mefistofelino should really add in his experience as a rally co pilot along with his cycle racing experience. He's not exactly Mr Woodhouse.

    But ban him when he starts getting excited when describing the gearbox in Austin McCrae's Cosworth or whatever


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    #111
    Mefistofelino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Large bottle small glass wrote: »
    @mefistofelino should really add in his experience as a rally co pilot along with his cycle racing experience. He's not exactly Mr Woodhouse.

    But ban him when he starts getting excited when describing the gearbox in Austin McCrae's Cosworth or whatever

    The technical term is "sack of spuds"


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