Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

Benicetomonty

First over simplification is to equate a choke with losing a tournament. In every event, there are wins and losses that go way beyond who takes the trophy at the end of the week. Trying to make a cut, a top 25, a top 10…. guys choke in ways that we never hear about. However, given that Rory was obviously in it for one thing only:

On 14, he missed a fairway. With a driver. With 180mph clubhead speed. At a US Open where fairways tend to be narrower than usual. It happens. Still made par.

Agree totally about 15. Great shot, wrong club. Selecting the wrong club doesnt constitute a choke for me. Name 1 other example in pro golf where a wrong club (a minor misclub; Im not accepting Van de Velde here) could be equated to a choke. Monty at Winged Foot was a mishit, not a misclub. Mickelson off 18 was the wrong club. Not a misclub. Big difference.

16. First putt was the issue. Have already explained why.

17. He made par. Wouldve taken it on the tee.

18. Not his best drive. Unpredictable 2nd, wasnt his best. Brilliant chip. Regardless, left himself with a 4 footer every bit as nasty as Dennis Wise and slightly pushed it.

Just dont see where the choke was. The only really questionable, nervy, needlessly overzealous shot he hit was his 1st putt on 16. Tee shots on 17 and 18 were slight pulls but hardly chokeworthy.

I mean, why limit ourselves to the last 5 holes if you want to equate minor errors with chokes? He scrambled like crazy through 2- 8 to avoid bogeys after his birdie on 1. And the 5th hole was a calamity even though most would agree his 2nd shot, while not perfectly struck, did not deserve to wind up where it did. Again, I just cant accept his performance over the final 4 holes as a choke. Couple of misjudgements, couple of v missable short putts and 1 bad misclub. All regrettably condensed within those aforementioned 4 holes.

For me, it doesnt compare with the 4 proper chokes I can recall in recent memory, which would be Goosen at Pinehurst in 05, Baddely at Oakmont in 07, Rory at Augusta in 2011 and Scott at Lytham in 2012. And Il give Badds a bit of credence because of his relative inexperience in the position, the difficulty of the course and his playing partner that Sunday (Tiger).

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289382#Comment_122289382

Your definition was:

For me a choke is a sustained sequence of bad shots that are completely out of character for an elite golfer.

He made a mistake on every hole. Every hole.

In relation to 14, go back and watch that drive. It wasn't anything to do with tight fairways, it was a horrible pull hook. He'd been driving it so well until the point he saw his name at the top of the leaderboard.

He missed the green on 17. You're completely ignoring the tee shot. He missed the green…

From taking the lead, he didn't give himself a single chance to extend it after playing world class golf all day.

If that's not a choke, i dunno what is. Call it what you want, bottle, collapse etc. He had a two shot lead and played the final 5 holes in +3 to not even make a playoff. That's choking

You're saying:

• Missed fairway
• Missed green
• Missed putt
• Missed green
• Missed fairway and putt

Isn't a sustained sequence of bad shots?

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289457#Comment_122289457

Ive already told you my understanding of what a choke is and given you clear examples. Mcilroy's doesnt fit my definition. He did not hit truly bad shots over and over again.

14 was a bad drive. But left was no worse than right. Would have been different if there was water or OB left but there wasnt. Not his best swing but he made sure to hit it in a place he knew he could recover from. And he did.

Lots of players missed the green on 17. I get the feeling you think it's a given that a pro will hit a turtle back green from 190 yards without breaking a sweat, even before you take into account the fact that its the US Open. Golf is hard.

I'd argue he had a decent chance for birdie on 16 after his drive. Half a chance after his 2nd even. Just hit a v poor first putt and made bogey.

And again, I hate to be pedantic but at that level, barely a hole goes by that a pro doesnt make a mistake. Ben Hogan said if he plays a round where he hits 3 perfect shots, hed be satisfied. The game is about misses. Rory hit a bad drive on 10. He also overhit the putt for birdie. But he made a 4. Was that hole a choke?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289580#Comment_122289580

Do you think the pressure got to Rory with 5 holes to go?

CalamariFritti

Jesus are you all still at this? 😂

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289600#Comment_122289600

Pressure gets to all of them. Rory is no different. For me though, the only real manifestation of that pressure was his 1st putt on 16. Just a needless, over excitable pop at the birdie try. Catastrophic in hindsight.

kyleman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289654#Comment_122289654

Pressure got to Bryson. He barely hit a decent drive all day but got lucky so many times.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289654#Comment_122289654

None of this was in hindsight, everyone I know said it while it was happening.

the only real manifestation of that pressure was his 1st putt on 16

He shot +3 with 5 to play after playing the first 14 holes in -4. How is that not the pressure getting to him???

I guess well agree to disagree. I think it's stunning you don't think the pressure got to him on any of the other shots

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289675#Comment_122289675

+3 with 4 to play. Dont know why you regard his par or any par on the 14th as some kind of underachievement.

Nobody said he wasnt under pressure and that he didnt feel it. Wouldnt be human if he didnt. Regardless, based on my observations of his golf coming in and in comparison with sequences of performances in the past which I and others have regarded as legitimate 'chokes', subjective though that term may be, I cannot classify McIlroy's loss by that term.

Agree to disagree sounds good. As a final thought, I really do hope the '24 US Open is not the defining moment in the majors post 2014 for Rory. A generational talent, and well capable of winning more majors, allbeit this is going to be very difficult to absorb.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289760#Comment_122289760

He felt the pressure but it only manifested in one of his shots when he shot +3 in 5 holes...? That makes zero sense but sure, we'll go round in circles.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289783#Comment_122289783

Again with the +3 the last 5! He was +2 the last 6. He was +1 the last 7. He was E par the last 9. On 10, he hit a bad drive, an average 3rd and bashed the putt. But because it went in, youre happy just to say he made 4 birdie, ergo played the hole perfectly.

Writing off his play over the last 4 as a choke displays no appreciation for the nuances of this game, particularly on a US Open layout and most particularly on this US Open layout.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289833#Comment_122289833

Again with the +3 the last 5!

Because that's where he choked. That's when he took the lead. It's whataboutery on the other holes.

Writing off his play over the last 4 as a choke displays no appreciation for the nuances of this game

Bryson +1, Cantlay +1, Finau -1, Pavon -1, Hideki 0, Henley 0, Xander -1, Burns-1, Conners +1, Thompson 0. That's how the rest of the top 10 played the final 5. Why did Rory, who was playing fantastic golf, suddenly stop playing fantastic golf? Pressure

You're completely ignoring that 4 pars wins him the tournament, 3 pars and he's in a playoff. You'd back him to get that done 100% of the time, he didn't. Why? Pressure.

It's an absolutely ridiculous position to take that the pressure only manifested itself in one shot. It's stupid. He went from playing brilliant golf to bad golf, why? Pressure. It's the simple.

Good luck.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289861#Comment_122289861

Again, a choke is not something that happens exclusively in the last 3, 4, or 9 holes of a tournament. His 1st round at Portrush in 2019 was Rory's biggest choke since 2011 in my opinion. Rattling off the scores of 7 or certainly 6 guys who had no chance to win last Sunday by the time they hit the back 9 is hardly relevant as to what constitutes a choke.

Rory did not play fantastic or brilliant golf. A US Open does not allow you to play fantastic golf. He hit the odd brilliant shot certainly. He was, however, extremely defensive between holes 2 to 8 and bogied 5 in the middle of that stretch. He was blessed on 10 that his putt hit the hole but wasnt as fortunate on 16 and 18.

Saying that 4 pars wins him the tournament is reductive to say the least. He had no way of knowing that and even if he did, its like saying to Monty in 2006 in Winged Foot on the Friday, hey, just make 54 pars and you'll win by 6. Your notion that the world's best can just par or birdie a stretch of holes on command is flattering to them (Im sure), but also ridiculous. Stupid even, as you might say yourself.

But hey, agree to disagree.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289903#Comment_122289903

 A US Open does not allow you to play fantastic golf. 

This is nonsense. Of course it does.

a choke is not something that happens exclusively in the last 3, 4, or 9 holes of a tournament.

Where did I state it's exclusive to the end? It's not. He choked at Portrush. Ludwig choked at the start of the final round.

Choking can happen in the back 9 on a Sunday. You can be brilliant for 17 holes and choke on 18.

Saying that 4 pars wins him the tournament is reductive to say the least. He had no way of knowing that and even if he did, its like saying to Monty in 2006

Are you trying to say Monty wasn't a choker? Man is the personification of choking in majors.

He was 2 shots clear with 5 to play. It's a US Open, a tough US Open. There's nothing reductive about it.

Your notion that the world's best can just par or birdie a stretch of holes on command is flattering to them (Im sure), but also ridiculous.

Rory doesn't hit +3 on those 5 holes playing a casual round. It's ridiculous to say he shouldn't close out the tournament 2 clear with 5 to play.

It's ridiculous to say missing 2/3 par 3 greens and both fairway badly wasn't pressure. It's idiotic.

It's crazy you don't think pressure was a factor.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122288883#Comment_122288883

Well three in a union, it's made up of States. It's not the same but it's like the EU in ways with a population of over 300m people.

Only the Masters is less than 100 years old and it's played on the same course every year so it'll never move.

So it's down to the US Open and PGA championships.

The US Open is run by the USGA so it's unlikely to ever move outside the USA.

The PGA championship is run by the PGA of America. It's professional golfers who run it, not the PGA tour. It's the only one that could move.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122289933#Comment_122289933

I think you just like saying the word choke to be honest. If Rory had played fantastic golf, hed have won by 8, like hes done in the past. And like Kaymer did in 2014. He didnt.

Monty made a mess of the 72nd at Winged Foot. Did he choke the US Open in 92? The PGA in 95,where he birdied the last 4 holes?

Again, never said pressure wasnt a factor. I just dont think his finish was poor enough to be considered a choke. Unless you consider every loss in a big event to be one. As you seem to do.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290109#Comment_122290109

Again, never said pressure wasnt a factor.

You said it only manifested itself in one shot, the putt. Which means it wasn't a significant factor in any of his other poor shots.

Your point is inconsistent and makes no sense. It's illogical.

I just dont think his finish was poor enough to be considered a choke.

+3 in 5 holes pal is awful. Around 60 golfers did better than +3 in the closing stretch that day. How's is that not a poor enough finish considering the other 14 holes?

It's such a ridiculous take.

Musicrules

Rory played some great stuff at the Open. He was patient, he had some bad breaks and putts didn't drop all the time but he kept his head, didn't get frustrated and put himself in a great position. He put himself in the winning position. He had all the hard work done. But then the pressure got to him. There's no way around that. Use choke or whatever word you want to but that's what happened. You could see it with how he approached shots even, nevermind the putts. I don't know if he uses a psychologist, I presume he does but the mind is what has stopped him from winning a major in the last 10 years. If he can work with a professional to try to focus on the golf he played for 68 holes and to work on the anxiety of seeing the finish line, I think he can get over the line sooner rather than later. It's a tough ask though. It's not easy winning these majors. Let's hope he gets one soon.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290206#Comment_122290206

I never said it wasnt a poor finish. Dont know why youre so eager to put words in my mouth. Poor does not equal choke. Furthermore, since youve now written off a 7 time European number 1 and hall of famer a choker because of one bad finish in a major, Im more convinced than ever that you dont fully understand the concept. A few poor shots do not constitute a choke. If you can concede (and thats a big if!) that his loss in the 2011 Masters was worse than the way he lost the US Open than you can see there are differing levels of disappointing finishes. The former was a choke. The latter wasnt.

Ive been entirely consistent but can go over it again for your benefit: the first putt on 16 was by far the most inexplicably bad shot he hit, with the only feasible reasoning being that the pressure got to him. All of the other poor shots he hit can be explained either through respective shot difficulty or circumstance, without resorting to your favourite word, whether you like it or not.

By your logic, every golfer in the world is a choker because anybody who has played the game has lost a competition at some point in their life. Monty is a choker. Rory choker. Phil choker. Tiger (75 last round in 2009 USPGA) choker. Choke choke choke choke choke choke choke choke ad nauseum.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290638#Comment_122290638

Furthermore, since youve now written off a 7 time European number 1 and hall of famer a choker because of one bad finish in a major

You don't think Monty was a choker in majors. That says it all.

You don't think making a mistake off the tee in 4 of the final 5 holes when you take the lead is choking. (Plus two bad putts, that's 6 mistakes at least in 5 holes)

There's one person here who doesn't understand what choking is and it aint me. Pressure got to Rory and he couldnt handle it, that's choking

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290805#Comment_122290805

Yeah, Monty's 4 birdies in the last 4 holes at Riviera in the 1995 USPGA to make the playoff was a choke alright. By your 'logic'.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290812#Comment_122290812

Now who's putting words in whos mouth?

A choke is when you can't handle the pressure and make bad shots or bad decisions. That's exactly what happened to Rory. The pressure got to him.

You're saying the pressure only got to Rory on one shot, the first putt. That's ridiculous.

Monty in 06 is widely reported as his biggest choke in the US Open. But if you want to argue by analogy, all that happens is we argue about the analogy, Monty isn't relevant as to what happened on Sunday.

Benicetomonty

Oh, Im sorry, did you not refer to Monty as a 'choker in majors'? Oh, wait yes you did. And then you were presented with a clear example where Monty did, in fact, not choke at a major where he had a chance to win, thereby ridiculing your specific stance on that issue. But sure yeah, I put words in your mouth :D

The Monty example is perfectly relevant to Sunday's events and came about quite organically. Dont backtrack now just because he actually lost a major that he didnt throw away!

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290911#Comment_122290911

Monty choked in 06. Monty never won a major because he couldn't handle the pressure. He's the greatest player to never win one.

Monty was a choker in majors doesn't mean he choked every single time.

This thread is about Rory. When he took the lead he made 4 mistakes off the tee in the next 5 holes. How was that not the pressure getting to him?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290911#Comment_122290911

I don’t think there is as much pressure on a player who behind with 4 holes to go and makes 4 birdies, I really am not going to look up the 1995 PGA, but being beaten by someone who made 4 birdies in the last 4 holes, is very different from being beaten by someone who played them in 1 over, after the runner up was 2 ahead with 5 to go.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290638#Comment_122290638

By your logic, every golfer in the world is a choker because anybody who has played the game has lost a competition at some point in their life. Monty is a choker. Rory choker. Phil choker. Tiger (75 last round in 2009 USPGA) choker. Choke choke choke choke choke choke choke choke ad nauseum.

If you honestly think that's what I'm saying, you're arguing in bad faith.

Losing doesn't make you a choker. Just because you win in one tournament doesnt mean you can't choke in another. Equally, saying someone was a choker doesn't apply to every tournament they ever played.

Letting the pressure get to you and because of that you lose the tournament is what I think everyone would define as choking. That happened to Rory. You say it only manifested in one shot, the putt. That's crazy

There are other definitions of choking e.g. Rory Portrush but in the context of Sunday, that's what the general term would mean, in my opinion.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290944#Comment_122290944

'Monty was a choker in majors' but not in all of them is not a coherent point of view. By definition, if he performed exceptionally well, even once, under the gun (and he did), then he was not a 'major choker'. For sure, his most disappointing loss was in a major, and I can understand why people refer to that double on 18 as a choke, certainly moreso than I can understand the same terminology being applied to Rory's finish. No shortage of relevant comparisons between both scenarios, whatever way you look at it. But when you label a player like Montgomerie a choker (before redefining him a major choker) then I think youve lost all degrees of perception. In a game where the very best lose nearly all the time, his win rate in world golf must be in the top 10pc of elite tour pros. Do you label all players a choker based on a bad finish to a tournament? Or even 2 or 3 bad finishes? Is Tiger a choker because he blew the 09 PGA? Or because he shot 81 at Muirfield in 2002? Or course not. Ridiculous logic.

Rory felt pressure, as all of them do. He had the winning of the event in his hands. It took a fantastic shot by BDC to beat him. I just dont see it as a choke. A poor finish yes, just not a choke.

The Big Easy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290638#Comment_122290638

While I agree with the vast majority of your take, I can't quite get my head around why you think the first putt on 16 was the shocker?

It was a 25 foot birdie putt that he hit 2 foot 6 inches beyond the hole. If we say 18 inches beyond the cup is perfect pace, it was hardly a terrible putt. I'll concede nearly every putt is missable at that stage, but he really should be handling the come backer. That was tension/anxiety/pressure that caused that miss, not the first putt imo.

He hit a truly awful putt on Friday or Saturday where he a 30 foot birdie putt that he hit 10 foot long and made bogey. That was a concentration lapse more than anything, but I can't agree that giving yourself 2'6" after a birdie putt is an inexplicable error.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290999#Comment_122290999

I don't care about Monty. He is a choker or he's not a choker, I didn't follow his career closely enough. I'm going off everything I heard and read

Rory felt pressure, as all of them do.

But that only led to one bad shot, the putt according to you. Correct?

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290961#Comment_122290961

Dont entirely disagree. He may not have felt too much pressure when he birdied 15 and 16. He certainly did by the time he got to 18. And then again in the playoff, where he hit two quality shots into 15ft only for Elkington to hole it from 25ft in front of him. No rational person could accuse him of choking that event or that there was no pressure over the final few holes.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291003#Comment_122291003

I understand your point. In most circumstances, the 1st putt wouldnt have been regarded as a lapse but I think in this instance, it was. It called for lag and he gave it a run. He was ahead, playing great golf.. there was simply no need to do anything other than cosying it up and if it got sick in the front of the hole then happy days. Again, I understand your perspective but believe the circumstances made that 1st effort inexcusable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291023#Comment_122291023

I’m not sure hat you can hold that one tournament up as proof hat Monty never choked, any more that you could hold up last Sunday as proof that McIlroy has not choked.

Look, we all saw what happened, it was very unfortunate, very tough to watch on both a sporting, and human level. But it happened, he figuratively, dropped the ball. So let’s look forward to The Open in the hope that the mental effect will have passed.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291058#Comment_122291058

Monty's finish in 2006 was a choke. But people are too quick to focus on just the 2nd shot. That was a mishit for sure, maybe a misclub too. Didnt help that Vijay was arseing around in the left rough for 10mins looking for a ruling and 171 yards into a US Open green is no piece of cake but theres no doubt that in that instance, the pressure got to him. But that was just the beginning. He had no 3rd shot but allowed himself to be frazzled and panicked, thinking he had to hole the 45ftr for par instead of resetting as Harrington did so well in the 2007 Open and realising that a bogey was in all likelihood going to get him in a playoff. The pressure not only contributed to a poor swing, astonishingly poor given his rep as an iron player, but also a meltdown psychologically. I just dont see Rory's last few holes in the same degree of 'collapse': therefore if Monty choked, I have to find some other terminology to describe Rory's loss. Again, for me, one was way worse than the other.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291019#Comment_122291019

Correct. That putt was the only stroke where the result was so inexplicable, a toxic mix of lack of awareness and/or appreciation as to where he stood and poor execution, that it could only have come from pressure. Every other shot he hit down the stretch was explainable, there was a logic to them whether they were good or bad. The putts were poor but missable. 17 was 220 yards, allbeit downhill and he missed the green, as many others did that day. 14 and 18 are two par 4s that are 450 plus with narrow firm fairways. Which other shot did he 'choke' on?

tayto lover

I believe that if Rory had sank the putt on 16 he would have done the same on 18. The first bad putt was the cause of the second because it put the doubts in his mind.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291217#Comment_122291217

Do you not think that you can make excuses for missing one green or missing one fairway but missing 2 of the 3 remaining par 3 greens and both of the next 2 fairways was an example of how the pressure got to him?

He was excellent off the tee all day until the 15th. (And before you say what about the 10th, that doesn't mean he was 100% OTT) He hit one good shot off the tee from there. What changed? He went 2 shots clear is one thing. How can that reasonably be explained except for pressure getting to him?

It's not any one given shot. It's all 6 mistakes that demonstrate how he didn't handle the pressure.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122291341#Comment_122291341

Safe to say neither of us are for turning on this one. Understanding of the word choke is all semantics and subjectivity anyway; Ive taken up enough space in the thread trying to explain my interpretation.

I hope the next time McIlroy is in the mix on a major Sunday, hes leading by 10 or 11 and isnt in any danger of losing so we can avoid such pointless post mortems in the future.

Good golfing, y'all.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292006#Comment_122292006

Thats why I didn't use the word choke in my questions which you conveniently avoided answering.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292011#Comment_122292011

Yes, in your 2nd redefinition today, youve used the word 'mistake' instead. Good to see you can get through a paragraph without using the 'C' word. Kudos.

Ive answered all your questions. Because you dont like or agree with these answers, you keep asking the same questions. As is your right, I suppose.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292042#Comment_122292042

I have not redefined anything. I tried to get your opinion on whether you believe the pressure got to him. But I think comments like this show the kinda person you are and shows how you argue in bad faith.

I still think he choked. As do most people.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292058#Comment_122292058

'Are you trying to say Monty wasn't a choker'

'Monty was a choker in majors'

'Monty was a choker in majors doesn't mean he choked every single time.'

'Losing doesn't make you a choker. Just because you win in one tournament doesnt mean you can't choke in another. Equally, saying someone was a choker doesn't apply to every tournament they ever played.

Yeah, your definitions have been crystal clear and unwavering. You cant lie repeatedly and then accuse me of arguing in 'bad faith', whatever that means.

Im aware you think he choked. I have offered a different opinion and explained clearly and repeatedly why I have that opinion. Not sure what else I can do tbh.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292205#Comment_122292205

Monty was a choker. I assumed I was talking to a regular person who understands context and saying someone is a choker and that they choked in the majors doesn't mean literally every single one. It appears on each and every occasion you took the most extreme interpretation of a statement in an attempt to discredit it. I tried not to do that to you.

I think Philly McMahon was a dirty player. Was he dirty every game? Of course not. I think Nicolas Cage is a hammy actor. Is every performance hammy? No. I read that Greg Norman choked in the majors….man has 2 majors and the word choke in golf is associated with himself quite a bit….

What did I lie about?

Everything above is a perfect example of bad faith arguing.

I have offered a different opinion and explained clearly and repeatedly why I have that opinion.

Yes, he felt the pressure like all golfer do but that only cost him one shot despite a clear drop in performance after taking the solo lead and shooting +3 over 5 holes on a golf course around 60 golfers shot better than.

You've explained very little as to how Rory went from making birdies to missing greens and fairways if it wasn't the most blindly obvious answer….pressure

I thought you were leaving?

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292253#Comment_122292253

An 'attempt' to discredit? :D

You lied when you said you hadnt redefined what it was to be a choker with regards to Colin Montgomerie. Trying to play the poor mouth by accusing me of being pedantic is pretty pathetic. If you say something overtly contradictory in a debate, youre going to get called out on it. Sorry.

Ive explained my opinion on every shot Rory hit coming in during this thread. Go back through and let me know where Ive not been clear enough.

I was going to leave but having too much fun to now. I expect a mod will end our nonsense soon enough (or you could simply be content to agree to disagree as you mooted several posts ago) but until then, I suppose Il carry on.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292332#Comment_122292332

i didn't lie, I didn't redefine anything. It's trying to having a conversation and move something off an argument about semantics. To move past choke and discuss did pressure get to him.

I don't think you called me out on anything. I made a general comment and expected someone to interpret it in a normal manner. But you want to use words like pathetic and then say you're arguing in good faith?

Yes, you explained each shot but not the cumulation of shots. How did he make so many mistakes? Nobodies arguing choking in this instance is a single moment.

Ah, so you lied about leaving? See how easy it is to act in bad faith?

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292350#Comment_122292350

Your denial is beneath you. Probably.

Golf is hard. I dont have any other explanation. I dont need any other explanation. Players make mistakes all the time. Unfortunately, his happened at a particularly inopportune moment.

Yeah, we're both liars it seems. Now that we've established some common ground, you wanna call it a day?

kyleman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292369#Comment_122292369

A lot of my friends don't like Rory for whatever reason but they never played golf in their lives.

Most of my golf buddies have nothing but admiration for him and recognise his amazing talent at the very top level. They also know how easy it is to miss a downhill putt with plenty of break.

I'm wondering are either of ye a golfer of any note.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292369#Comment_122292369

i don't think you're a liar, i think you argue in bad faith.

Players make mistakes all the time.

No doubt. Why did he go from making ve y few mistakes to at least one mistake on every hole when he took the lead? Surely any reasonable person would say it's pressure.

You can stop replying whenever you want.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292396#Comment_122292396

Are you saying the better the golfer, the more credible the opinion? Your friends may know how easy it is to miss a short down hill putt, I’d hazard a guess none of them are elite professional golfers though.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292396#Comment_122292396

Scratch golfer. Have played and followed the game closely since 1997 and have a fairly good knowledge of major venues, winners and losers encompassing the decades since and well before that year. But I am also a despicable liar.

Huge McIlroy fan. But not to the point where I think I cant call him out for a bad shot or take on life and the world. In my opinion at least. Others are entitled to theirs of course.

kyleman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122292419#Comment_122292419

I'd hazard a guess no one on here plays golf with elite professional golfers.