UFC 262: Oliveira vs. Chandler

MidlanderMan

eagle eye wrote: »

You are way overrating Dariush. He's not that good, he's facing an old man here who's done.

You're under rating him.

But you're consistantly wrong so whatever.

eagle eye

MidlanderMan wrote:

You're under rating him.

But you're consistantly wrong so whatever.

Can you back that comment up?

Look on the betting thread and you'll see I picked Dariush to win in round 1. That's because Tony is done. I predicted an easy win for Dariush before the fight.

I got it wrong in that it went the distance but it was pure dominance. And I'm here telling you that Dariush is not that good.

I haven't seen you post anything special in here.

wilkie2006

When Dariush had Tony with that heal hook, Tony was kicking at him: that's not allowed in the rules, right? Technically, Dariush was grounded?

MidlanderMan

wilkie2006 wrote: »

When Dariush had Tony with that heal hook, Tony was kicking at him: that's not allowed in the rules, right? Technically, Dariush was grounded?

You can kick grounded fighters, just not in the head.

MidlanderMan

Do Bronx by flying triangle in round 1.

RulesOfNature

I put 5 grand on ferguson. He's made me more than twenty times that in the past. But its time he hung his gloves. Its over. He's too weak, too slow, too old.

Mellor

Charlie by sub
Head and heart combo

MidlanderMan

Chandler should ahve finished that tbh.


Oliveira should have also finished from the back.


Could still go either way.

FileNotFound

Great first round, chances for both.

MidlanderMan

DO BRONX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RulesOfNature

HOLY F*CKING ****.

FileNotFound

Wow did not see that end coming.

eagle eye

Wow, well that was five minutes if lightning in a bottle.

I want a rematch.

Axwell

Great first round, Oliveira did well do weather those punches towards the end and then come out and finish it so early in the second.

MidlanderMan

that left check hook was ****ing beautiful.

RulesOfNature

Good on Oliviera. Chandler is the real deal. No one can dispute Oliviera now. I wish he'd fought Khabib, however.

Zero-Cool

Just shows Chandler can be a real problem and still in the mix, beautiful by Charles!!

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

It's very sad to see Tony like this, he's a shadow of the fighter he was before covid.

And lots of people are going to overrate Dariush after this, just like they have Oliveira.

eagle eye wrote: »

You are way overrating Dariush. He's not that good, he's facing an old man here who's done..

I think you're trying way to hard to undermine Dariush's win by crapping on Tony. And yes I'm aware you picked Dariush in betting. That just means you thought he'd win, as most of us did.

What's this pre-covid Tony all about? When exactly was this prime Tony?
He fought exactly like he's always fought imo. Which is to say sloppy, unorthodox, and making a few errors. He's always got away with it against lesser opponents and scrapped a win. He's ability hasn't disappeared by a massive degree. He's simply fighting in the top 5 recently, and getting punished for those mistakes.

I've said he's overrated for years. People remembered the win streak. and forget the times he was nearly finished in the first.

Mellor

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Good on Oliviera. Chandler is the real deal.

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Just shows Chandler can be a real problem and still in the mix, beautiful by Charles!!

after the Hooker fight we all knew Chandler was dangerous, especially in rd 1 with his explosive power.
But I think this fight confirmed that he simple succeeds by being a wrestler throwing powerful overhands and lacks a lot of MMA fundamentals.

He turned the wrong way and gave up his back very easily in round one. That's a real early 2000s wrestler mistake. Obviously it happens when guys are rocked, or misdirected into it. But that seamed unforced.

And the finish sequence. When Charles stepped in with the knee feint. He dropped his hands. And they weren't very high to begin with. You need to be a very technically skilled striker to pull that guard off. That's not Chandler.

derfderf

Great fight, and delighted for Olivera. Seems to be a super nice person.
Does anyone really think these are the best two in the division fighting for top spot though?

Tazzimus

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Good on Oliviera. Chandler is the real deal. No one can dispute Oliviera now. I wish he'd fought Khabib, however.

Khabib would have murdered him.

mailburner

Chandler handled the loss well but he has to be raging with himself

A few shots possibly from finishing charles and had that last minute of so of
round one been standing I think he'd have got the finish

mailburner

derfderf wrote: »

Great fight, and delighted for Olivera. Seems to be a super nice person.
Does anyone really think these are the best two in the division fighting for top spot though?

I fancy Dustin or Justin against against either of those guys

derfderf

mailburner wrote: »

I fancy Dustin or Justin against against either of those guys

That's what I was thinking. At the least.
I know it's rare to have two guys fighting for an unclaimed belt, but it's even rarer to say neither are the best. I would say Olivera deserved the fight though, he handled everything put in front of him.

Mellor

derfderf wrote: »

Does anyone really think these are the best two in the division fighting for top spot though?

I don't think anyone thinks that. But they are in the top 6, and they were the only 2 in the top 6 coming off a win other than Dustin.

It would have been Dustin v Oliveira. Which would have been the best two guys on wins imo.

mailburner wrote: »

I fancy Dustin or Justin against either of those guys

I'd fancy Dustin against both.
I fancy Justin against Chandler. I think that's the fight to make next at the top of the division.

akelly02

RulesOfNature wrote: »

I put 5 grand on ferguson. He's made me more than twenty times that in the past. But its time he hung his gloves. Its over. He's too weak, too slow, too old.

Just had the 20grand on dariush myself

Brussels Sprout

Outstanding main event. That first round was possibly the craziest single round of a title fight that I can remember.

That finishing sequence starting from the point at which Chandler was rocked and with his back to the cage was so reminiscent of McGregor-Mendes at UFC 189. Just the way that Chandler was trying to get away, moving backwards along the fence with a pained expression and Oliviera landed flush to knock him down again before finishing him with a flurry of punches.

DmanDmythDledge

Agree with a few of the posts above that these aren't the two best guys in the division. Justin, Gaethje and Mcgregor would beat them all comfortably. Entertaining fight but very lacking in quality considering it was a title fight

mailburner

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

Agree with a few of the posts above that these aren't the two best guys in the division. Justin, Gaethje and Mcgregor would beat them all comfortably. Entertaining fight but very lacking in quality considering it was a title fight

Not sure this version of him would beat anyone of them right now unless he
shows significant improvement in the rematch.

DmanDmythDledge

Remains to be seen how good he is going to be but what he showed against Poirier would have been sufficient to be either of those two I thought

eagle eye

Mellor wrote:

I think you're trying way to hard to undermine Dariush's win by crapping on Tony. And yes I'm aware you picked Dariush in betting. That just means you thought he'd win, as most of us did.

What's this pre-covid Tony all about? When exactly was this prime Tony? He fought exactly like he's always fought imo. Which is to say sloppy, unorthodox, and making a few errors. He's always got away with it against lesser opponents and scrapped a win. He's ability hasn't disappeared by a massive degree. He's simply fighting in the top 5 recently, and getting punished for those mistakes.


I've said he's overrated for years. People remembered the win streak. and forget the times he was nearly finished in the first.

Ferguson was immense and yes you can question just how good those he fought were to a certain extent but that's not his fault.

As regards Dariush who you seem to like. Whose the best he's fought? Would it be Barboza who knocked him out or Chiesa who subbed him? Has he fought anybody better than those two?

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

Ferguson was immense...

When was this? What fight are you talking about?

His streak was impressive, but he scrap through a lot of them fights. I think he created a myth about him. People talk about his elite 10th planet BJJ. When he was a brownbelt who did some crazy **** in lieu of fundamentals.

and yes you can question just how good those he fought were to a certain extent but that's not his fault.

I'm not questioning how good those guys are.
I'm questioning Tony's performances in those fights. Which is his fault.

As regards Dariush who you seem to like. Whose the best he's fought? Would it be Barboza who knocked him out or Chiesa who subbed him? Has he fought anybody better than those two?

You are talking about fights there were 4 and 5 years ago.

But I supposed the best guy he has fought is the Tony Ferguson. He mauled him for 3 rounds, and wrecked his knee with a heel hook. I expect to see Dariush in the top 5 during the week when the rankings are next updated.

Dariush's grappling credentials are far far better than Tony's. He would have outgrappled him at any point of the last decade.

Porthallian

eagle eye wrote: »

And lots of people are going to overrate Dariush after this, just like they have Oliveira.

So not only is Dariush overrated, but so is Oliveira? As in, the new UFC Lightweight Champion? Okay.

eagle eye

Mellor wrote:

But I supposed the best guy he has fought is the Tony Ferguson. He mauled him for 3 rounds, and wrecked his knee with a heel hook. I expect to see Dariush in the top 5 during the week when the rankings are next updated.

Tony is done, that's been clear since the Gaethje fight.
He's not close to the same level as he was.
You are overrating Dariush.
And Ferguson beat the same Barboza who ko'd Dariush.

eagle eye

Porthallian wrote:

So not only is Dariush overrated, but so is Oliveira? As in, the new UFC Lightweight Champion? Okay.

Whose he beaten? Gaethje, Poirier, McGregor?
He's beaten Tony who looks done and Chandler who looks quite ordinary.

RulesOfNature

Was wondering why Beneil let go of Tony’s leg instead of submitting then at the interview Beneil said he heard it POP. Jesus christ.

He took about 50 headshots from Gaethje. Had his arm turn inside out by Oliviera. Then Beneil thought it was over cause he heard his leg pop.

Tony is supernaturally tough. Cardio and athleticism faded but he’s still the boogieman.

Homelander

Good card though it's hard to watch Tony's last few fights. He's done at this stage and heading down the Cowboy route.

Main event was solid. I was wondering though why Chandler didn't let Olivera back up and try and finish him standing after wobbling him. I get the ground and pound, but it became clearly after a very short time that it wasn't going to work.

Great shot by Olivera though. Chandler was rocked hard by that hook. Really interested in seeing the next fights for both, Chandler more so actually.

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

Tony is done, that's been clear since the Gaethje fight.
He's not close to the same level as he was.
You are overrating Dariush.
And Ferguson beat the same Barboza who ko'd Dariush.

You keep saying he done, but you won’t name a fight where he was immense.
He’s faded a bit. He was never as good as you’re making out.

Im overrating Dariush at #5 (after the obvious Champ and top 4)?
Where would you put him? Where you you put Tony.
You’re entitled to your opinion. As anyone is. But surely you can back it up?

eagle eye

Mellor wrote:

Im overrating Dariush at #5 (after the obvious Champ and top 4)? Where would you put him? Where you you put Tony. You’re entitled to your opinion. As anyone is. But surely you can back it up?

If Dariush is 5 and Oliveira and Chandler are ahead of him the division is on a bad state.
Right now for me the top fighters on the division are Poirier, Gaethje and RDA.
I'd personally rate Mackhachev and Gillespie as next best after those three.

MidlanderMan

eagle eye wrote: »

If Dariush is 5 and Oliveira and Chandler are ahead of him the division is on a bad state.
Right now for me the top fighters on the division are Poirier, Gaethje and RDA.
I'd personally rate Mackhachev and Gillespie as next best after those three.

Gillespie got beat by Kevin Lee who's been on a massive slide, not one win of note.

Who the feck has Mackhachev beaten?

Tazzimus

eagle eye wrote: »

If Dariush is 5 and Oliveira and Chandler are ahead of him the division is on a bad state.
Right now for me the top fighters on the division are Poirier, Gaethje and RDA.
I'd personally rate Mackhachev and Gillespie as next best after those three.

Gillespie, gway would you, he's not top 5 by any stretch.

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

If Dariush is 5 and Oliveira and Chandler are ahead of him the division is on a bad state.
Right now for me the top fighters on the division are Poirier, Gaethje and RDA.
I'd personally rate Mackhachev and Gillespie as next best after those three.

So Gregor, with no fights in top 10. Is better that McGregor, Chandler, Dariush. Is he better than Keven Lee? Who he lost to?
You’re just throwing out random babes names to avoid giving credit to the lads your crapping on or their opponents.

Still haven’t said when this mythical pre-Covid Tony existed. Proves my point that it didn’t happen. He had wins. But never good performances.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

You’re just throwing out random babes to avoid giving credit to the lads your crapping on or their opponents.

It seems you both may have verrry different rankings here...

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It seems you both may have verrry different rankings here...

It took be a second to figure out what the autocorrect was at there. I assume I meant names, obviously my phone search history has betrayed me.

eagle eye

Mellor wrote:

So Gregor, with no fights in top 10. Is better that McGregor, Chandler, Dariush. Is he better than Keven Lee? Who he lost to? You’re just throwing out random babes names to avoid giving credit to the lads your crapping on or their opponents.

I said my personal view is that Makhachev and Gillespie are after the top three.
Again it's just an opinion as they haven't beaten any proven top fighters much like Oliveira and Dariush.

Mellor wrote:

Still haven’t said when this mythical pre-Covid Tony existed. Proves my point that it didn’t happen. He had wins. But never good performances.

How about what he did to Pettis?

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

I said my personal view is that Makhachev and Gillespie are after the top three.
Again it's just an opinion as they haven't beaten any proven top fighters much like Oliveira and Dariush.

Oliveira's last 3 opponents have been Kevin Lee, Tony Ferguson, and Chandler.
Might not be the best of the best. But all are top 10 fighters.

Gregor has fought one top 10 fighter. Kevin Lee. who is lost to.

Islam has massive potential imo. But has had the match ups yet.

How about what he did to Pettis?

If that's the best example of prime Tony. It completely proves my point.
He got the Win fair and square. It was a good fight to watch. It was far from a flawless performance. All his fights fit hat mould.


He lost the first round. He was dropped and was doing the same goofy sloppy stuff he always does when losing.
Had a comeback in the second. Cut Pettis open. His corner pulled him
(Pettis broke his hand punching Tony in Rd1).

https://streamable.com/hg69h

eagle eye

Well the same Pettis beat Oliveira and beat Wonderboy right after the loss to Tony.

MidlanderMan

eagle eye wrote: »

Well the same Pettis beat Oliveira and beat Wonderboy right after the loss to Tony.

Pettis best Oliveira 5 years ago.

Stop trying to do MMA math. It's ridiculous.

eagle eye

MidlanderMan wrote:

Pettis best Oliveira 5 years ago.

Stop trying to do MMA math. It's ridiculous.

We are going through Tony's history so it's relevant.

Brussels Sprout

The main reason that Islam Makachev doesn't have any big name wins is that nobody wants to fight him. He's in a very similar spot to where Kamaru Usman was in early 2018 - 7 fight win streak in the UFC but a ranking lower than his abilities probably merit. That creates a lose-lose scenario for any of the top fighters to take a fight with him which makes it difficult for him to progress.

Usman's career took off at that point and I think Makachev's will now too.