Ransomware & HSE

Donald Trump

Wombatman wrote: »

Mighty altogether if you are replicating compromised, infected or corrupt data.

My point was that if they are running real time replication then they also likely have periodic snapshots. You wouldn't necessarily assume the other way around.

So they would have those snapshots stored. The real time would be infected but they can go back in terms of snapshots before the infection.

Ash.J.Williams

Donald Trump wrote: »

My point was that if they are running real time replication then they also likely have periodic snapshots. You wouldn't necessarily assume the other way around.

So they would have those snapshots stored. The real time would be infected but they can go back in terms of snapshots before the infection.

That stuff doesn’t account for every affected server /desktop and laptop having to be rebuilt, that will take time and then you would assume the backups are ok, we’ll find out soon

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the worst possible way to save a mere sixteen million euro. It's pure stubbornness.

(Assuming you mean paying a ransom)
Pointing out the obvious here...but there is a fairly high collective cost to paying such people off (to, for example not release sensitive data).
Might benefit a single victim (HSE here), but it does incentivise the behaviour.
It gives people doing this resources they can plough into better attacks in future, or use for other crimes (or perhaps terrorism).

Dempo1

Wombatman wrote: »

Basically pay them an average of what they were paid for every pay period for the year. Not going to be accurate. Major reconciliation will be required when the systems come back online. Will be far from perfect but probably the best they can do at this point to get some dosh out to people who have to pay bills etc.

That a great IDEA but this is the HSE we're talking about??

Donald Trump

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

That stuff doesn’t account for every affected server /desktop and laptop having to be rebuilt, that will take time and then you would assume the backups are ok, we’ll find out soon

The data is the main thing. The other stuff can be rebuilt. If they backup their data files separate from configuration files etc then they can just reimage everything I'd imagine once whatever backdoor they got in by is closed. If there are not too many days data lost, then they might still have paper records etc. for what they input.



The problem with that is that individual machines and local disks might not actually be backed up. Actually probably likely aren't

Dempo1

I saw a report on the the news at one, VP of Irish hospital consultants association, Apparently suggesting this is Harder on consultants than the Pandemic ever was!! WTF! What about the F****** patients I wondered.

crossman47

Wombatman wrote: »

Basically pay them an average of what they were paid for every pay period for the year. Not going to be accurate. Major reconciliation will be required when the systems come back online. Will be far from perfect but probably the best they can do at this point to get some dosh out to people who have to pay bills etc.

And you will calculate that (without the payroll system) how?

NIMAN

Maybe it's time to boycott Russia?

Then again, they don't supply many products the normal population could boycott.

Chris_5339762

xckjoo wrote: »

There's still the problem that if the parent network is hacked then the legacy systems just exist in isolation and you've lost the benefits of that parent system (e.g. your x-ray machine still works but you've lost patient scheduling and managing, data transmission, etc.). At the very least this will bottleneck everything and bring it to a crawl.

...and you can't used your x-ray system with a pen and paper system because the x-ray is interlocked to the patient management system, and it won't switch on without that connection.


You can contact the company and get them to turn off that system, but they are likely overseas and can't come here due to travel restrictions.

joe40

Hurrache wrote: »

I've been in a few of them, they're quite nicely spec'd and maintained, but I've never seen one actually in use. But that's the point I suppose, like your insurance, it's good to have their but you never want to have to go near it.

Companies lease them out, they don't have their own, unless they're a particularly huge company, but even at that it tends to be third party's premises, and like you say, the disaster is for physical disaster, anything like a flood, fire etc in their own premises.

Thats the plot from Mr.Robot.

Turtwig

Dempo1 wrote: »

I saw a report on the the news at one, VP of Irish hospital consultants association, Apparently suggesting this is Harder on consultants than the Pandemic ever was!! WTF! What about the F****** patients I wondered.

That was not what they meant.
The knock on effects for this are harder on health care than the pandemic. Health care includes both staff and patients. The information consultants would use to make clinician decisions on a patient's treatment is compromised. That makes things awkward and much riskier than they were previously.

Dempo1

Turtwig wrote: »

That was not what they meant.
The knock on effects for this are harder on health care than the pandemic. Health care includes both staff and patients. The information consultants would use to make clinician decisions on a patient's treatment is compromised. That makes things awkward and much riskier than they were previously.

I'm sure it wasn't but I would have thought a better use of words might have been wiser, I'm waiting over 3 years for an MRI and expecting a confirmation of one next Monday to be cancelled, so perhaps I was a little unfair

highgiant1985

Dempo1 wrote: »

Donnelly suggesting 146,000 HSE staff unlikely to be paid this Thursday, that will certainly expedite matters, this just beggar's belief

Where was that said?

theguzman

Health care staff wont be paid this week, what are the odds that the hackers have cleaned out payroll funds too?

I am enjoying the whole thing and have zero sympathy for the HSE or the slots employed within, it is the poor frontline staff I have pity for getting screwed over daily in that behemoth of waste.

ixoy

Hurrache wrote: »

BTW, anyone hearing of a glut of spam phone calls trying to make hay on the back of this? I've had someone receive a couple from an Irish mobile number with an automated message saying their details have been exposed in the HSE and something long the lines of a warrant and the usual crap?

Funnily enough I just got one, an automated voice saying something about being from the Department of Social Protection (I hung up). I wouldn't normally answer except I am waiting on a medical call which, with classic timing, I went to book last Friday.

highgiant1985

theguzman wrote: »

Health care staff wont be paid this week, what are the odds that the hackers have cleaned out payroll funds too?

I am enjoying the whole thing and have zero sympathy for the HSE or the slots employed within, it is the poor frontline staff I have pity for getting screwed over daily in that behemoth of waste.

I did a search and found: https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-ransomware-attack-2-5440082-May2021/

“At the moment [the pay system] is not operating. My understanding is that there would be a payment this Thursday but I know it’s an absolute top priority for the HSE to make sure that those payments go through,” Donnelly said.

Donald Trump

theguzman wrote: »

Health care staff wont be paid this week, what are the odds that the hackers have cleaned out payroll funds too?

I am enjoying the whole thing and have zero sympathy for the HSE or the slots employed within, it is the poor frontline staff I have pity for getting screwed over daily in that behemoth of waste.

Wait til they publish your very own prescriptions for helping combat your knob rot to the dark web :P


Being serious, how the f could you be enjoying it? Very weird. People will be genuinely suffering over this and you are happy. Weird

Wombatman

crossman47 wrote: »

And you will calculate that (without the payroll system) how?

Bank uploads.

jmayo

Infini wrote: »

Yeah but windows 10 also has the LTSM program which allows for essential upgrades to the OS without any extras or unwanted add ons. They provide this as a way of applying essential security updates and bug fixes as buisneses need to be able to apply these at fixed intervals without having to deal with potential conflicts etc.

And the biggest issue with Win 10 is that the next update could make some of your computers unusable.
I have seen different applications run like a dog because of a Windows 10 update.
That can have huge effect across a business.
It's ok when small company, but when anything from 10s of people to 100s of people affected then it is real pain.

And eventually Mickie soft admits there is an issue and there is hotfix, but if you update machine to another major release there goes the hotfix and you have to put another hotfix on for that.

joe40 wrote: »

Are we getting to the stage where the use of technology and software has advanced at a faster speed than the ability of organisations/companies to maintain proper security.
That would mean we are very vulnerable to this sort of thing. Imagine a power grid, Air traffic control or banking just to name a view where this sort of breach could be catastrophic.

The technology involved here is totally beyond me, I'll leave others to discuss the details of this issue, but just how vulnerable are we as a society.

I am sick and tired of saying this around here, but the whole software design and rollout methodology all developed over years by the big players in the software industry like Microsoft is so flawed.
Yes that is big reason why I hate Gates and his Microsoft.

They have never gotten away from fact they expect the end user, the buyer, to help roll out the bugs, including the gaping holes in security.
Yes it is complex but half the time somethings are basic.
And things are never properly tested because screw that, just get it to market and let the end user do it.

Now that was ok when it was just a PC using Office or something basic.

But nowadays software is linked into everything.
And the design and rollout methodology used by the Microsofts of the software world has found it's way across into once reliable design industries.

Aviation was all about well thought out, resilient, reliable systems.
Then Boeing goes off, all part of their cost cutting share propping reason d'etre, and implements ill designed badly tested software, with a huge assumption that pilots (the end users in this case) could figure out what was wrong and rectify in 3 seconds.

Yes 3 seconds to twig your automated trim was going ballistic due to some shyte software that had no failover to pick up erroneous inputs.
And here is the kicker the pilots didn't even know about it, absolutely nothing in the manuals because it was kept secret.

How many people here have had issues with cars where your phone hook up has issues, where your car has gone into limp some mode because something happened.

This is the issue with the way software is designed and often built.

theguzman

Donald Trump wrote: »

Wait til they publish your very own prescriptions for helping combat your knob rot to the dark web :P


Being serious, how the f could you be enjoying it? Very weird. People will be genuinely suffering over this and you are happy. Weird

The HSE is like a cancer on Irish society, €20bn a year dumped into that disgrace of an organisation and nothing even plausibly resembling healthcare is delivered. The HSE is a glorified social employment scheme and an absolute disgrace. I am happy this has happened and anything that can further damage or destroy that entity is a bonus until it is finally privatised and the Unions banned out of it.

VinLieger

Ive never gotten robocalls before and just had one claiming to be from department of social protection.... correlation doesn't equal causation but timing......

Donald Trump

theguzman wrote: »

The HSE is like a cancer on Irish society, €20bn a year dumped into that disgrace of an organisation and nothing even plausibly resembling healthcare is delivered. The HSE is a glorified social employment scheme and an absolute disgrace. I am happy this has happened and anything that can further damage or destroy that entity is a bonus until it is finally privatised and the Unions banned out of it.

You're a very bitter fella.

BattleCorp

theguzman wrote: »

The HSE is like a cancer on Irish society, €20bn a year dumped into that disgrace of an organisation and nothing even plausibly resembling healthcare is delivered. The HSE is a glorified social employment scheme and an absolute disgrace. I am happy this has happened and anything that can further damage or destroy that entity is a bonus until it is finally privatised and the Unions banned out of it.

Glad you are happy. Pity about those who will die because of the events that make you happy.

MikeSoys

i dont know much about this but understand HSE spends around 1/4 less on IT systems then EU average..all the cheaping out looks like its to be undone done.

If this was a public company the market would be looking for a head over this(termination of empoyment with no big payouts)...

Seth Brundle

theguzman wrote: »

I am enjoying the whole thing and have zero sympathy for the HSE or the slots employed within, it is the poor frontline staff I have pity for getting screwed over daily in that behemoth of waste.

theguzman wrote: »

The HSE is like a cancer on Irish society, €20bn a year dumped into that disgrace of an organisation and nothing even plausibly resembling healthcare is delivered. The HSE is a glorified social employment scheme and an absolute disgrace. I am happy this has happened and anything that can further damage or destroy that entity is a bonus until it is finally privatised and the Unions banned out of it.

These two posts say a lot about you personally!

theguzman

Donald Trump wrote: »

You're a very bitter fella.

I am not bitter I am angry as I have watched loved ones suffer and die at the hands of the HSE, I also suffered myself due to their extreme incompetence and would Nuke the organisation if I had even half a chance.

Never depend on the Government for anything especially something so precious as your health.

skimpydoo

Earlier today I published an Irish Tech News podcast about this cyberattack and ransomware attacks. You can hear it on all major podcast platforms and here.

Seth Brundle

theguzman wrote: »

I am not bitter I am angry as I have watched loved ones suffer and die at the hands of the HSE, I also suffered myself due to their extreme incompetence and would Nuke the organisation if I had even half a chance.

Never depend on the Government for anything especially something so precious as your health.

Go away please!

Allinall

theguzman wrote: »

I am not bitter I am angry as I have watched loved ones suffer and die at the hands of the HSE, I also suffered myself due to their extreme incompetence and would Nuke the organisation if I had even half a chance.

Never depend on the Government for anything especially something so precious as your health.

Why are you so angry if you don't depend on the HSE?

BattleCorp

MikeSoys wrote: »

i dont know much about this but understand HSE spends around 1/4 less on IT systems then EU average..all the cheaping out looks like its to be undone done.

If this was a public company the market would be looking for a head over this(termination of empoyment with no big payouts)...

Even if you invest a fortune, it's hard to make systems very secure when all it takes is one gobsh1te to click on a link and open the front door for hackers.