Ransomware & HSE

riclad

They could remove the drives and give the laptops to a charity that sends laptops to third world country's
. It seems sad to throw 30,000 laptops away.
I don't expect rte to report on all the tech details of how networks are restored
Most people would not be interested in that
Laptops can run Linux from a cdrom drive or a USB drive.

ineedeuro

riclad wrote: »

They could remove the drives and give the laptops to a charity that sends laptops to third world country's
. It seems sad to throw 30,000 laptops away.
I don't expect rte to report on all the tech details of how networks are restored
Most people would not be interested in that
Laptops can run Linux from a cdrom drive or a USB drive.

A SSD for a laptop is 30 quid? if buying 30k I guess you would get a discount. I am sure school all over the country etc would love to get their hands on this "junk".

Or give them away to kids who need for homework etc. Linux will run no problem on them.

None of that will happen of course.

riclad

riclad wrote: »

They could remove the drives and give the laptops to a charity that sends laptops to third world country's
. It seems sad to throw 30,000 laptops away.
I don't expect rte to report on all the tech details of how networks are restored
Most people would not be interested in that
Laptops can run Linux from a cdrom drive or a USB drive.

They and other departments and companies used to send their old equipment, to Rehab Recycling for redistribution to charities etc.
Fairly sure that they still do, but open to correction by someone who knows if they don't anymore, or wouldn't in this case.

IBM used to send over stuff all the time but didn't always include the drives in the cases if their wipe software failed.

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

A SSD for a laptop is 30 quid? if buying 30k I guess you would get a discount. I am sure school all over the country etc would love to get their hands on this "junk".

Or give them away to kids who need for homework etc. Linux will run no problem on them.

None of that will happen of course.

No school wants laptops that don't work. Schools have better things to be doing than clean up someone else's mess.

ineedeuro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No school wants laptops that don't work. Schools have better things to be doing than clean up someone else's mess.

How do you what the school's want?

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

Did you read the post?
In the article about the ransomeware attack they made a reference and link to the ransomware attack in the US, nothing about the HSE.

The US attack was older than the HSE one. So if "new" and "news" the HSE is more relevant would you not think?

They had NEWs about the US incident and how the ransom had been retrieved. They didn't have NEWs about the HSE so they didn't report. Do you expect them to report that the ESB kept the lights on today?

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

How do you what the school's want?

From my time on the Board of Management of two schools, with particular responsibility for IT strategy.

ineedeuro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

From my time on the Board of Management of two schools, with particular responsibility for IT strategy.

Ahh of course.

This is a strange campaign then isn't it
https://www.rte.ie/eile/2021/0203/1194783-leave-no-student-offline-in-2021/#:~:text=RT%C3%89%20has%20launched%20the%20Tech2Students,learning%20continues%20online%20in%202021.

Plus all the other one run all over the country to get laptops to students

Cluedo Monopoly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

From my time on the Board of Management of two schools, with particular responsibility for IT strategy.

Sorry but that made me laugh. It was just too perfect an answer.

'particular responsibility for IT strategy' indeed. Did you fundraise for the electronic whiteboards at Scoil Mhuire too?

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

Ahh of course.

This is a strange campaign then isn't it
https://www.rte.ie/eile/2021/0203/1194783-leave-no-student-offline-in-2021/#:~:text=RT%C3%89%20has%20launched%20the%20Tech2Students,learning%20continues%20online%20in%202021.

Plus all the other one run all over the country to get laptops to students

Anything there about laptops with no hard drives?

ineedeuro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Anything there about laptops with no hard drives?

As I originally posted a brand new ssd for a laptop cost 30 euro, schools would get a lot cheaper and probably close to half that price. You understand a SSD stands for Solid State Drive? I ask because your posts suggest you don’t

The cost of a laptop would be a couple of hundred euro, a person “responsibility for IT strategy” should see the clear benefit of buying a few SSD and slotting into laptop

I have bought loads of old desktop for free-30 quid off adverts, stuck a SSD in, put on Linux and work perfect for a training tool. Something like Peppermint Linux with low memory requirement is an excellent choice.

The HSE “junk” laptops would be super computers compared to them

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

As I originally posted a brand new ssd for a laptop cost 30 euro, schools would get a lot cheaper and probably close to half that price. You understand a SSD stands for Solid State Drive? I ask because your posts suggest you don’t

The cost of a laptop would be a couple of hundred euro, a person “responsibility for IT strategy” should see the clear benefit of buying a few SSD and slotting into laptop

I have bought loads of old desktop for free-30 quid off adverts, stuck a SSD in, put on Linux and work perfect for a training tool. Something like Peppermint Linux with low memory requirement is an excellent choice.

The HSE “junk” laptops would be super computers compared to them

So that's a No then, nothing in the link you posted about the situation that you're proposing.

And Linux in schools? Where none of the staff and few of the students and none of the parents have used Linux? Good luck with finding a school that wants your "help".

There's no difficulty with finding refurb devices from Camera or other charities. And guess what - they have drives already installed!

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

As I originally posted a brand new ssd for a laptop cost 30 euro, schools would get a lot cheaper and probably close to half that price. You understand a SSD stands for Solid State Drive? I ask because your posts suggest you don’t

The cost of a laptop would be a couple of hundred euro, a person “responsibility for IT strategy” should see the clear benefit of buying a few SSD and slotting into laptop

I have bought loads of old desktop for free-30 quid off adverts, stuck a SSD in, put on Linux and work perfect for a training tool. Something like Peppermint Linux with low memory requirement is an excellent choice.

The HSE “junk” laptops would be super computers compared to them

While all good, the article you linked to earlier said that they don't want devices manufactured before 2015 in order to be usable.
Now I don't know exactly how often the HSE refresh their laptops, and I am sure that you don't, but from what I see online in a average year they replace 7,500 desktops and laptops meaning each device is replaced every seven to eight years.
Given that I used to work in the medical software field, and have friends who work for the company that supplies the majority of hospital and retail pharmacies, GPs etc with software and hardware, that would be the usual length of time for a hardware refresh in terms of desktops for both private and public customers, or longer in some private customers cases.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's a No then, nothing in the link you posted about the situation that you're proposing.

And Linux in schools? Where none of the staff and few of the students and none of the parents have used Linux? Good luck with finding a school that wants your "help".

There's no difficulty with finding refurb devices from Camera or other charities. And guess what - they have drives already installed!

While windows would be more well known and familiar, if just for online learning through videos on a site Linux would be OK.

The office suites are acceptable but not as polished or user friendly as ms office

But the ease of administration means that Windows would be more prevalent even at third level.

irishgeo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No school wants laptops that don't work. Schools have better things to be doing than clean up someone else's mess.

There is nothing wrong with them. Probably take windows 10 as well. Buy maybe don't have the enterprise security features the HSE wants to use.

ineedeuro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's a No then, nothing in the link you posted about the situation that you're proposing.

And Linux in schools? Where none of the staff and few of the students and none of the parents have used Linux? Good luck with finding a school that wants your "help".

There's no difficulty with finding refurb devices from Camera or other charities. And guess what - they have drives already installed!

So I guess you have never used Linux.
Anyway its way off topic.

Blowfish

So, in common internal IT team language, 'replacing' someone's laptop does not mean throwing the existing laptop away and giving them a brand new one. It means taking their existing laptop and providing them with another with a fresh install of Windows. The laptop that they gave back will be wiped, a new OS installed and handed back out to someone else to use.

This whole argument may just be a misinterpretation of what 'replace' means. It may not mean going out and buying 30k new laptops at all.

ineedeuro

Blowfish wrote: »

So, in common internal IT team language, 'replacing' someone's laptop does not mean throwing the existing laptop away and giving them a brand new one. It means taking their existing laptop and providing them with another with a fresh install of Windows. The laptop that they gave back will be wiped, a new OS installed and handed back out to someone else to use.

This whole argument may just be a misinterpretation of what 'replace' means. It may not mean going out and buying 30k new laptops at all.

No it means going out and buying 30k new devices and handing them to people.

Blowfish

ineedeuro wrote: »

No it means going out and buying 30k new devices and handing them to people.

Have they actually said that they actually used the word 'purchase' or 'buy' anywhere?

ineedeuro

Blowfish wrote: »

Have they actually said that they actually used the word 'purchase' or 'buy' anywhere?

OK the article
https://www.thejournal.ie/cyber-attack-hse-laptops-5463583-Jun2021/?utm_source=shortlink

Speaking at today’s HSE briefing, CEO Paul Reid said a “significant proportion” of the 80,000 user laptops and access points are being replaced.

Also in IT when they say replace that is a new laptop. When they say "refresh" that means installing a new version of OS etc

Blowfish

ineedeuro wrote: »

OK the article
https://www.thejournal.ie/cyber-attack-hse-laptops-5463583-Jun2021/?utm_source=shortlink

Speaking at today’s HSE briefing, CEO Paul Reid said a “significant proportion” of the 80,000 user laptops and access points are being replaced.

Also in IT when they say replace that is a new laptop. When they say "refresh" that means installing a new version of OS etc

Not necessarily, for us 'replace' is just clean OS.

AndrewJRenko

irishgeo wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with them. Probably take windows 10 as well. Buy maybe don't have the enterprise security features the HSE wants to use.

They don't have hard drives.

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

So I guess you have never used Linux.
Anyway its way off topic.

99% off the intended target audience haven't used Linux, so there will be a huge familiarisation and training hurdle. The cost of getting over that barrier will vastly exceed a few quid saved on hardware.

ineedeuro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

99% off the intended target audience haven't used Linux, so there will be a huge familiarisation and training hurdle. The cost of getting over that barrier will vastly exceed a few quid saved on hardware.

As I was talking of giving free laptops to kids I have no idea what point you are trying to make

I think you will find most kids and young adults will have zero issue in swapping between Linux and Window, actually a very positive learning experience for kids.

Any college/school should have a strategy to teach kids as many OS as possible, very short sighted to only look at Windows

In terms of swapping the HSE I agree, any public sector would be useless at trying to change OS

kippy

ineedeuro wrote: »

As I was talking of giving free laptops to kids I have no idea what point you are trying to make

I think you will find most kids and young adults will have zero issue in swapping between Linux and Window, actually a very positive learning experience for kids.

Any college/school should have a strategy to teach kids as many OS as possible, very short sighted to only look at Windows

In terms of swapping the HSE I agree, any public sector would be useless at trying to change OS

All of what you say is lovely - but not what actually happens in reality.
Why not deal with reality?

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

As I was talking of giving free laptops to kids I have no idea what point you are trying to make

I think you will find most kids and young adults will have zero issue in swapping between Linux and Window, actually a very positive learning experience for kids.

Any college/school should have a strategy to teach kids as many OS as possible, very short sighted to only look at Windows

In terms of swapping the HSE I agree, any public sector would be useless at trying to change OS

Colleges don't actually teach the use of any specific operating system, they teach their theory, logic gates etc.

The reason why the likes of schools etc use Windows as the operating system is because it's the desktop operating system of choice for businesses along with it's office productivity tools. Not much point teaching kids to use an operating system and office productivity tools that aren't used.

ineedeuro

kippy wrote: »

All of what you say is lovely - but not what actually happens in reality.
Why not deal with reality?

I didn’t suggest to donate the laptop, it was someone else

It is also clear the public sector wouldn’t come up with the idea themselves so many the general public should suggest it to them

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

I didn’t suggest to donate the laptop, it was someone else

It is also clear the public sector wouldn’t come up with the idea themselves so many the general public should suggest it to them

As mentioned earlier, they already send hardware to Rehab Recycling for redistribution to different charities, and have been doing so for years.

ineedeuro

DubInMeath wrote: »

Colleges don't actually teach the use of any specific operating system, they teach their theory, logic gates etc.

The reason why the likes of schools etc use Windows as the operating system is because it's the desktop operating system of choice for businesses along with it's office productivity tools. Not much point teaching kids to use an operating system and office productivity tools that aren't used.

If you look at the market the major companies are looking at large Linux rollout for critical systems. All the main players in ireland are already doing it.

The main productivity tool I guess you mean is office? Which is now rolled across all desktop OS, which I’m sure you knew.

For years anyone coming from the main colleges are coming out after spending years working with Linux and hence why the popularity to switch to Linux


Also the reason schools they don’t use Linux is because Microsoft is very good at giving school licenses for free. If a school is not running a version of Linux it just shows they lack the knowledge of what is happening in the market

Cuddlesworth

ineedeuro wrote: »

If you look at the market the major companies are looking at large Linux rollout for critical systems. All the main players in ireland are already doing it.

Who? In what context?