Ransomware & HSE

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

If you look at the market the major companies are looking at large Linux rollout for critical systems. All the main players in ireland are already doing it.

The main productivity tool I guess you mean is office? Which is now rolled across all desktop OS, which I’m sure you knew.

For years anyone coming from the main colleges are coming out after spending years working with Linux and hence why the popularity to switch to Linux


Also the reason schools they don’t use Linux is because Microsoft is very good at giving school licenses for free. If a school is not running a version of Linux it just shows they lack the knowledge of what is happening in the market

Colleges don't even teach Microsoft as already mentioned, they teach the theory of operating systems.

Major companies and the public service already have a large unix and linux server base for web, database hosting etc. They use Windows for active directory and file servers. They don't use linux for desktops, IBM had a go at trying it but essentially gave up.

Again schools use Windows because it's relatively easy to administer and there is no point teaching kids to use an operating system or office productivity y that aren't used in the majority of businesses.

kippy

ineedeuro wrote: »

If you look at the market the major companies are looking at large Linux rollout for critical systems. All the main players in ireland are already doing it.

The main productivity tool I guess you mean is office? Which is now rolled across all desktop OS, which I’m sure you knew.

For years anyone coming from the main colleges are coming out after spending years working with Linux and hence why the popularity to switch to Linux


Also the reason schools they don’t use Linux is because Microsoft is very good at giving school licenses for free. If a school is not running a version of Linux it just shows they lack the knowledge of what is happening in the market

I am not going to get into a debate with respect to windows versus linux but the predominate OS on client devices in organisations is Windows. Back end stuff is a mix depending on what you are talking about etc.
That's the reality and people have been saying linux will take over as the client OS for the best part of three decades now and it still hasn't happened and probably wont in the main stream for a variety of reasons.
So again, back to the real world.

ineedeuro

DubInMeath wrote: »

Colleges don't even teach Microsoft as already mentioned, they teach the theory of operating systems.

Major companies and the public service already have a large unix and linux server base for web, database hosting etc. They use Windows for active directory and file servers. They don't use linux for desktops, IBM had a go at trying it but essentially gave up.

Again schools use Windows because it's relatively easy to administer and there is no point teaching kids to use an operating system or office productivity y that aren't used in the majority of businesses.

Did IBM not buy redhat for a couple of billion?

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

Did IBM not buy redhat for a couple of billion?

They did as a way to get back the server market space they lost after underfunding development of their own unix based server operating systems, and for cloud services.

They also used to develop Lotus Symphony before giving up on it and handing over the code to apache.

They also bought over Lotus Notes and Domino but lost that market to Microsoft also through underfunding development and leaving their cloud based customers high and dry after selling it to HCL.

But what's that got to do with the fact that they tried experimenting with using linux as a desktop os and gave up on it?

Ash.J.Williams

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Who? In what context?

Nobody

ineedeuro

DubInMeath wrote: »

They did as a way to get back the server market space they lost after underfunding development of their own unix based server operating systems, and for cloud services.

They also used to develop Lotus Symphony before giving up on it and handing over the code to apache.

They also bought over Lotus Notes and Domino but lost that market to Microsoft also through underfunding development and leaving their cloud based customers high and dry after selling it to HCL.

But what's that got to do with the fact that they tried experimenting with using linux as a desktop os and gave up on it?

Way off topic but just to confirm I was talking about the core systems not the file shares. Will
Leave you to it

swampgas

DubInMeath wrote: »

Colleges don't even teach Microsoft as already mentioned, they teach the theory of operating systems.

Major companies and the public service already have a large unix and linux server base for web, database hosting etc. They use Windows for active directory and file servers. They don't use linux for desktops, IBM had a go at trying it but essentially gave up.

Again schools use Windows because it's relatively easy to administer and there is no point teaching kids to use an operating system or office productivity y that aren't used in the majority of businesses.

Off topic I guess, but the real lock-in windows has in large organisations is Active Directory (and maybe Exchange for email). I use Linux daily, I've been using it for over 20 years, I've even taught the odd class at third level on it - and if I had to decide on a system for a large organisation (unless it was all techies, a small software company maybe) I'd probably go for windows/Active Directory in part or in total.

And for the HSE - I wouldn't contemplate such a change in the current environment.

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

If you look at the market the major companies are looking at large Linux rollout for critical systems. All the main players in ireland are already doing it.

The main productivity tool I guess you mean is office? Which is now rolled across all desktop OS, which I’m sure you knew.

For years anyone coming from the main colleges are coming out after spending years working with Linux and hence why the popularity to switch to Linux


Also the reason schools they don’t use Linux is because Microsoft is very good at giving school licenses for free. If a school is not running a version of Linux it just shows they lack the knowledge of what is happening in the market

Great, so why don't you go ahead and arrange to train hundreds of teachers and thousands of parents and let us know when you're done.

ineedeuro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Great, so why don't you go ahead and arrange to train hundreds of teachers and thousands of parents and let us know when you're done.

No need to train anyone, you will find the majority of people are not idiots and running Office and a browser is the same on any OS, Windows/Mac/Linux etc etc.

gameoverdude

Not true. IT are going to support all these different OS? In a school? Let alone complaints about something looks different?

Edit: any environment

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

No need to train anyone, you will find the majority of people are not idiots and running Office and a browser is the same on any OS, Windows/Mac/Linux etc etc.

You have clearly no idea about the change management issues that arise when rolling out new technology.

gameoverdude

AndrewJRenko wrote:

You have clearly no idea about the change management issues that arise when rolling out new technology.

Sure upload *IX...it'll be grand.

swampgas

swampgas wrote: »

Off topic I guess, but the real lock-in windows has in large organisations is Active Directory (and maybe Exchange for email). I use Linux daily, I've been using it for over 20 years, I've even taught the odd class at third level on it - and if I had to decide on a system for a large organisation (unless it was all techies, a small software company maybe) I'd probably go for windows/Active Directory in part or in total.

And for the HSE - I wouldn't contemplate such a change in the current environment.

I use kali, ubuntu and a couple of server versions, and Windows for obvious reasons.

Personally even in my security hdip we were only thought about the differences between the file system layers and memory management between the Windows and nix.

Can't say if the HSE use unix or linux as I don't know. But given in a lot of government departments their unix and linux servers vastly outnumber their Windows ones, it may be the same, but for desktops it's Windows with MAC for any one that has any graphic designers, because their graphic designers and they love their MACs.

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

Way off topic but just to confirm I was talking about the core systems not the file shares. Will
Leave you to it

Active Directory is a core system, if you don't know or think that is the case, well yeah you might want to leave it there.

You were talking about using linux as a desktop and how it should be taught in school and colleges and brought up IBM buying Red Hat when I pointed out among other things that IBM don't use linux as a desktop OS.

By the way a lot of Red Hat customers aren't exactly happy about the acquisition given IBMs track record of underfunding and their hand in killing off CentOS.

Ash.J.Williams

ineedeuro wrote: »

No need to train anyone, you will find the majority of people are not idiots and running Office and a browser is the same on any OS, Windows/Mac/Linux etc etc.

I’ve seen people try and switch away from windows in the corporate world and it doesn’t work overall , mainly in getting their multiple systems working probably and network issues

ineedeuro

DubInMeath wrote: »

Active Directory is a core system, if you don't know or think that is the case, well yeah you might want to leave it there.

You were talking about using linux as a desktop and how it should be taught in school and colleges and brought up IBM buying Red Hat when I pointed out among other things that IBM don't use linux as a desktop OS.

By the way a lot of Red Hat customers aren't exactly happy about the acquisition given IBMs track record of underfunding and their hand in killing off CentOS.

Let’s clear this up

the discussion is about giving 30k old HSE laptops to kids, mentioned by another poster and I mentioned installing a SSD and Linux. It would be low cost to get the laptops back up and running

You ploughed in then as usual trying to show what an “expert” you are. I have no idea about IBM, you brought them up as a “reference” to back up some point you made.

The conversation about Linux is in regards to the free laptops. Nothing else as far as I’m concerned. Seemingly some people think giving a free laptop with Linux on it to kids is not possible because kids & adults all over ireland are idiots. Something I believe is not true and we have a very tech savvy population.

Another poster said school/college should not provide anything apart from Windows, again I said they should give people the option of Linux and it’s short sighted not to.

Will leave you to it....

ineedeuro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You have clearly no idea about the change management issues that arise when rolling out new technology.

Putting Linux onto a couple of laptop to give to kids for free? What are you waffling about?

Anyway will leave you to it.

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

Putting Linux onto a couple of laptop to give to kids for free? What are you waffling about?

Anyway will leave you to it.

I'm waffling about the training and support requirements that are an essential part of any technology project. Have you actually led any technology rollout?

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

Let’s clear this up

the discussion is about giving 30k old HSE laptops to kids, mentioned by another poster and I mentioned installing a SSD and Linux. It would be low cost to get the laptops back up and running

You ploughed in then as usual trying to show what an “expert” you are. I have no idea about IBM, you brought them up as a “reference” to back up some point you made.

The conversation about Linux is in regards to the free laptops. Nothing else as far as I’m concerned. Seemingly some people think giving a free laptop with Linux on it to kids is not possible because kids & adults all over ireland are idiots. Something I believe is not true and we have a very tech savvy population.

Another poster said school/college should not provide anything apart from Windows, again I said they should give people the option of Linux and it’s short sighted not to.

Will leave you to it....

Never have claimed to be an expert, but I at least know what I am talking about.

I also don't ignore posts asking me to back up any statements I've made when others have provided evidence that they are incorrect, and then continue to repeat them.
Such as the fact that the hse as well as other government departments and private companies have been giving old hardware to the likes of Rehab Recycling for years to be redistributed to various charities. No one has said that they won't do the same in this case except yourself.

No one claimed that the population are idiots and can't use Linux, that's your response after digging yourself into hole when others simply pointed out to you the fact that it makes more sense to have Windows on them for numerous reasons including the fact it's the desktop OS of choice for businesses.

Ash.J.Williams

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm waffling about the training and support requirements that are an essential part of any technology project. Have you actually led any technology rollout?

Multiple over 20 years

AndrewJRenko

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Multiple over 20 years

The questions wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the person who thinks that handing over unfamiliar technology to a new audience with no support or training is a good idea, because it saves a few quid on hardware.

pryingEyes999

So what is the story with the data? Was it stolen or not? Has there been any massive releases that we expected?

ineedeuro

pryingEyes999 wrote: »

So what is the story with the data? Was it stolen or not? Has there been any massive releases that we expected?

Data was stolen, how much only the HSE and hackers now.

Data is already floating around the dark web. Personally I am not going to log into the dark web and I wouldn't recommend anyone else to so we don't know who's data is actually on the web.

Stories of people getting calls saying they stayed in XYZ hospital and they are due a refund so can they give CC details. No idea if these are true as just stories.

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

Data is already floating around the dark web. Personally I am not going to log into the dark web and I wouldn't recommend anyone else to so we don't know who's data is actually on the web.

Why would you not recommend it?

ineedeuro

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would you not recommend it?

You would need to ask the resident experts on why it is not recommended.

kippy

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would you not recommend it?

It's very dark in there - you'd need a good torch - hard to find this time of year.

riclad

I thought old laptops were sent to Africa 3rd world country's,
There's many versions of Linux that run the latest browsers, libreoffice etc
And in most cases Linux is alot more secure than Windows 10
Linux mint is very similar to using Windows it has similar menus
It just seems awful to throw 30k laptops in a skip
that are in working order
I think it's possible to run chromium os on any laptop
Which is used in many schools as its very secure
Easy to use and easy to update
And it can use android apps too

riclad

Many schools in the USA buy chromium laptops as the are easy to secure and have numerous educational apps and Google apps which are free
And they are cheaper vs buying a Windows 10 laptop

ineedeuro

riclad wrote: »

I thought old laptops were sent to Africa 3rd world country's,
There's many versions of Linux that run the latest browsers, libreoffice etc
And in most cases Linux is alot more secure than Windows 10
Linux mint is very similar to using Windows it has similar menus
It just seems awful to throw 30k laptops in a skip
that are in working order
I think it's possible to run chromium os on any laptop
Which is used in many schools as its very secure
Easy to use and easy to update
And it can use android apps too

Couple of people here from the public sector, seemingly giving a free laptop to someone would require months of training and project management

And people wonder why nothing ever gets done in public sector. :-)

Cordell

I'm saying this as a linux enthusiast: No, linux is not more secure because it's linux, it only looks more secure because there's less people trying to poke holes in it. But vulnerabilities like Spectre, Meltdown, Heartbleed and countless others were found and replicated on linux (and open source components usually found in linux distributions).

There is no substitute for proper security. And with proper security Linux and Windows can be just as secure.