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Ransomware & HSE

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    #2612
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Couple of people here from the public sector, seemingly giving a free laptop to someone would require months of training and project management

    And people wonder why nothing ever gets done in public sector. :-)

    Public sector donate plenty laptops and desktops via organisations like Camara and Rehab recycle on a regular basis.

    The argument around running a linux desktop in an environment you want to manage is dead - as others have stated Active Directory and Microsoft OS is the de-facto choice of most organisations for a number of reasons.

    Neither of the above statments are linked/related.

    Plenty gets done in the public sector - but things are generally never as black and white as you seem to think.


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    #2613
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,114 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Couple of people here from the public sector, seemingly giving a free laptop to someone would require months of training and project management

    And people wonder why nothing ever gets done in public sector. :-)
    Isn't it funny though how you have to exaggerate what was said to you so that you apparently look reasonable when you argue with you. Why don't you go back to see what was actually said to you, and come up with a sensible, reasonable plan to address these issues - a plan that looks at the Total Cost of Ownership rather than just a narrow focus on hardware costs.
    riclad wrote: »
    I thought old laptops were sent to Africa 3rd world country's,
    There's many versions of Linux that run the latest browsers, libreoffice etc
    And in most cases Linux is alot more secure than Windows 10
    Linux mint is very similar to using Windows it has similar menus
    It just seems awful to throw 30k laptops in a skip
    that are in working order
    I think it's possible to run chromium os on any laptop
    Which is used in many schools as its very secure
    Easy to use and easy to update
    And it can use android apps too

    How did you work out that they will be thrown in a skip?


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    #2614
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Couple of people here from the public sector, seemingly giving a free laptop to someone would require months of training and project management

    And people wonder why nothing ever gets done in public sector. :-)

    You're coming across as someone with a chip on your shoulder!
    And some/many of your comments don't add anything constructive to this conversation!


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    #2615
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Couple of people here from the public sector, seemingly giving a free laptop to someone would require months of training and project management

    And people wonder why nothing ever gets done in public sector. :-)

    Who are from the public sector?


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    #2616
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    DubInMeath wrote:
    Who are from the public sector?


    Me! Do I get a prize?
    Seriously, I'm a *IX head and much prefer working off the command line, but saying linux is a solution is ridiculous. You expect a user, more than likely not techy, to just pick it up? Of course all proprietary applications will work...


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    #2617
    ineedeuro
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 989 ✭✭✭ineedeuro


    gameoverdude wrote: »
    Me! Do I get a prize?
    Seriously, I'm a *IX head and much prefer working off the command line, but saying linux is a solution is ridiculous. You expect a user, more than likely not techy, to just pick it up? Of course all proprietary applications will work...

    The conversation about linux was to install onto older laptops and give to kids for free.

    As I posted changing the HSE from Windows to Linux on desktop would be a disaster


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    #2618
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,831 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Is there any chance that these hackers can be caught at all? Or would they have covered their tracks too well?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #2619
    Blowfish
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Is there any chance that these hackers can be caught at all? Or would they have covered their tracks too well?
    We currently have next to no technical info on the incident so this is a complete unknown.


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    #2620
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    ineedeuro wrote:
    The conversation about linux was to install onto older laptops and give to kids for free.

    It would be great for them to learn. Concur.
    What's the use of it in a school setting?


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    #2621
    nullObjects
    Registered Users Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭nullObjects


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Is there any chance that these hackers can be caught at all? Or would they have covered their tracks too well?

    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-announce-recovery-millions-colonial-pipeline-ransomware-attack-2021-06-07/

    The people who did the pipeline one didn't get caught but supposedly the money was recovered. There's always a chance they'll be caught but if I was to guess I'd say it would be in the long term rather than the short term.

    I think they have a fair idea who these people are but obviously it would be tricky to investigate them given they are overseas


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    #2622
    ineedeuro
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 989 ✭✭✭ineedeuro


    gameoverdude wrote: »
    It would be great for them to learn. Concur.
    What's the use of it in a school setting?

    It was highlighted the HSE are about to get 30k new laptops. Someone suggested take the old 30k laptop and give to kids. Yes the HDD will be removed but you can buy a SSD really cheap(20 quid) and a version of linux will run on these laptops no problem

    If they break they break, they can be sent to recycle bin but as a learning exercise it would be excellent for kids.

    That was all the discussion was about, but it seemed to rile up a few people.


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    #2623
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    So throw windows on these new ssds? Yes?


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    #2624
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    It was highlighted the HSE are about to get 30k new laptops. Someone suggested take the old 30k laptop and give to kids. Yes the HDD will be removed but you can buy a SSD really cheap(20 quid) and a version of linux will run on these laptops no problem

    If they break they break, they can be sent to recycle bin but as a learning exercise it would be excellent for kids.

    That was all the discussion was about, but it seemed to rile up a few people.

    It's rules up a few people because things are never as simple as the may look on the outside. Anyone who has ever worked in these environments knows this.


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    #2625
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Handing out EOL laptops to little kiddies/african schools/blind kittens is a fcking nightmare to do and the "charities" involved will charge a pretty price just for taking them off your hands.


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    #2626
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Bambi wrote:
    Handing out EOL laptops to little kiddies/african schools/blind kittens is a fcking nightmare to do and the "charities" involved will charge a pretty price just for taking them off your hands.


    You're so wrong. They'll have linux on them! The licence fee alone will pay for the ssd.


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    #2627
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bambi wrote: »
    Handing out EOL laptops to little kiddies/african schools/blind kittens is a fcking nightmare to do and the "charities" involved will charge a pretty price just for taking them off your hands.

    I don't think rehab recycling are a charity.


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    #2628
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    I don't think rehab recycling are a charity.

    From my awareness of the organisation - they are, as being part of the Rehab group.
    https://www.rehab.ie/what-we-do/governance/how-is-rehab-group-governed-/


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    #2629
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    The conversation about linux was to install onto older laptops and give to kids for free.

    As I posted changing the HSE from Windows to Linux on desktop would be a disaster

    Given the main supplier of health care software for hospital, retail pharmacies, GPs and consultants only writes software for Windows doesn't matter, same as the majority of health related software houses.


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    #2630
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kippy wrote: »
    From my awareness of the organisation - they are, as being part of the Rehab group.
    https://www.rehab.ie/what-we-do/governance/how-is-rehab-group-governed-/

    I stand corrected, thanks.


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    #2631
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cordell wrote: »
    I'm saying this as a linux enthusiast: No, linux is not more secure because it's linux, it only looks more secure because there's less people trying to poke holes in it. But vulnerabilities like Spectre, Meltdown, Heartbleed and countless others were found and replicated on linux (and open source components usually found in linux distributions).

    There is no substitute for proper security. And with proper security Linux and Windows can be just as secure.

    Yep some people think that ransomware only exists for Windows, unfortunately that's not the case as with other online nastiest.


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    #2632
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,114 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    gameoverdude wrote: »
    Me! Do I get a prize?
    Seriously, I'm a *IX head and much prefer working off the command line, but saying linux is a solution is ridiculous. You expect a user, more than likely not techy, to just pick it up? Of course all proprietary applications will work...
    To be clear, he expects a child, and their parents, and their teachers to 'just pick it up'.


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    #2633
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    To be clear, he expects a child, and their parents, and their teachers to 'just pick it up'.

    There are some very established Linux distributions which are very intuitive to use. As close to windows for an end user that they'd have little trouble using it if they've used a computer before. 'just pick it up' is pretty much what a user should be able to do otherwise the developers have failed in it's design to a degree.

    You don't need to worry about the command line element to it , in fact in a school or work place you would lock that down for the same reason you would in windows.

    Not agreeing with the OP but Linux isn't the scary boogie man some think it is.

    There are other factors as to why you might not use it but difficulty using it day to day isn't really one of them.


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    #2634
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    There are some very established Linux distributions which are very intuitive to use. As close to windows for an end user that they'd have little trouble using it if they've used a computer before. 'just pick it up' is pretty much what a user should be able to do otherwise the developers have failed in it's design to a degree.

    You don't need to worry about the command line element to it , in fact in a school or work place you would lock that down for the same reason you would in windows.

    Not agreeing with the OP but Linux isn't the scary boogie man some think it is.

    There are other factors as to why you might not use it but difficulty using it day to day isn't really one of them.

    I don't disagree with some of that, however the issues start to happen when an additional piece of hardware is required and/or a reliance on an application install.
    If you just browse the web and are used to using something like gdocs or office 365 it's generally a very easy move over for a home user.


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    #2635
    irishgeo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,509 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    There are some very established Linux distributions which are very intuitive to use. As close to windows for an end user that they'd have little trouble using it if they've used a computer before. 'just pick it up' is pretty much what a user should be able to do otherwise the developers have failed in it's design to a degree.

    You don't need to worry about the command line element to it , in fact in a school or work place you would lock that down for the same reason you would in windows.

    Not agreeing with the OP but Linux isn't the scary boogie man some think it is.

    There are other factors as to why you might not use it but difficulty using it day to day isn't really one of them.

    Give over.

    Printering is a Linux nightmare. almost all the consumer applications you might use only work on windows.

    Never mind the business applications.

    Linux is brilliant for certain things but day to day use isn't one of them.


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    #2636
    ineedeuro
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 989 ✭✭✭ineedeuro


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    To be clear, he expects a child, and their parents, and their teachers to 'just pick it up'.

    I suggest you have a read of this article. Plenty more available on web:
    https://www.pcworld.com/article/202364/is_linux_really_harder_to_use.html

    Linux works for most users the exact same as Windows. Except a lot faster and better.

    Then after Linux you could try MacOS. Blow your mind


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    #2637
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    I suggest you have a read of this article. Plenty more available on web:
    https://www.pcworld.com/article/202364/is_linux_really_harder_to_use.html

    Linux works for most users the exact same as Windows. Except a lot faster and better.

    Then after Linux you could try MacOS. Blow your mind

    Ya haven't a notion lad.


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    #2638
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,114 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There are some very established Linux distributions which are very intuitive to use. As close to windows for an end user that they'd have little trouble using it if they've used a computer before. 'just pick it up' is pretty much what a user should be able to do otherwise the developers have failed in it's design to a degree.

    You don't need to worry about the command line element to it , in fact in a school or work place you would lock that down for the same reason you would in windows.

    Not agreeing with the OP but Linux isn't the scary boogie man some think it is.

    There are other factors as to why you might not use it but difficulty using it day to day isn't really one of them.
    There are reasons why Linux isn't on most work desktops. Kids won't just need to 'pick it up', they'll need to link it up to their home HP printer and their Chromecast and their webcam and their Bluetooth speakers. They'll need to run the apps that come with their school books. They'll need to be able to benefit from the materials that their teachers have prepared in PowerPoint and other formats. They'll be asking their teachers and their parents when they run into problems.

    Introducing new technology like this is not a 'pick it up' scenario.


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    #2639
    irishgeo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,509 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    I suggest you have a read of this article. Plenty more available on web:
    https://www.pcworld.com/article/202364/is_linux_really_harder_to_use.html

    Linux works for most users the exact same as Windows. Except a lot faster and better.

    Then after Linux you could try MacOS. Blow your mind

    Name one major company in Ireland that uses Linux across the board for every end user and then ask yourself why it isn't used?

    I suggest you read up on the switch to Linux by Munich city council.

    They switched back. Too many problems was the quote about Linux.


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    #2640
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    AndrewJRenko wrote:
    To be clear, he expects a child, and their parents, and their teachers to 'just pick it up'.


    And? What's the problem? Google and YouTube. Simples.


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    #2641
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    There are reasons why Linux isn't on most work desktops. Kids won't just need to 'pick it up', they'll need to link it up to their home HP printer and their Chromecast and their webcam and their Bluetooth speakers. They'll need to run the apps that come with their school books. They'll need to be able to benefit from the materials that their teachers have prepared in PowerPoint and other formats. They'll be asking their teachers and their parents when they run into problems.

    Introducing new technology like this is not a 'pick it up' scenario.

    I agree with most of that, my point was the OS itself isn't as scary or challenging to understand and use as maybe believe, by day to day I wasn't referring to getting it to play nice with other things in school or work scenarios etc.


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