Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049979#Comment_118049979

I understand taking the picture on a sunny day, and turning up image brightness and the saturation and stuff for the ads. It might seem a bit sneaky but there is no "correct" picture in digital photography, it's all just a subjective decision (it's just that the decision is being made by a computer algorithm instead of a person if they don't adjust it).

What I don't understand is why they edited the whole ground to remove the footpath and grass. That must have taken a bit of time and effort, and I didn't really think footpaths and grass were really that un-appealing to begin with.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052370#Comment_118052370

Even the angle of the brick work on the ground is different between the two pictures. Maybe it was all ripped up and relaid between the two pictures hence the bricks being a different angle and the footpath/grass being removed.

shawki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049979#Comment_118049979

He's turning a bit into the White Moose Cafe lad with all his call outs.

Do you have the Eircode so we can check the date of the Google street view?

I guess none of his followers copped the few years of growth on the side wall.

MacronvFrugals

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052424#Comment_118052424

Not sure tbh but the seller has taken the ad down off Bid1X

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052424#Comment_118052424

i cant take to that lad at all, he is just another young lad trying to make a few quid off gullible people with his patreon account and has latched onto property as his schtick.

shawki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052444#Comment_118052444

Probably due to unwarranted abuse/reports from yer mans followers.

God help my parents if they ever sell the family home, their street view is from 2009.

He'll call them out for photoshopping the extension.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052392#Comment_118052392

I considered that but assumed that the "2021" on the right image meant it was taken this year. Looking at the actual StreetView, it was taken April 2019, so it is possible it was redone within the past 2.5 years.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049979#Comment_118049979

ah in fairness the street view is likely years out of date, all thats changed is the driveway being relaid and it being brighter which could be entirely down to the camera or conditions.

Almost everything on street view has the grim filter applied to it that makes even the nicest street look like a communist dystopia.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052480#Comment_118052480

Thats just a copyright. Their copyright is always updated to the current year.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052478#Comment_118052478

Thats exactly it.

We viewed a house that had a google photo from 2014. It was totally different to the wreck of a house that it was in 2014.

I reckon 50% of the buyers looked at the google photo and didnt bother going to look at the house. It really was a gem.

But there really is no excuse for the photo shopping in that photo above. Even the cars are hovering :)

yer man!

To be fair though to the house being talked about in the insta post, that auctioneer has removed the satellite dishes on top and in front of the house too, you can see he left the wires there but covered over the dishes. The fact that they did that makes me believe they definitely altered the ground even if the street view is out of date. It’s not really just a simple filter application.

MacronvFrugals

Do you guys think the age old adage of buying the worst house in the best area still applies giving the massive increase in materials/labour costs we've seen over the last 18 months?

I ask because a friend of mine bought a place that was in fairly good condition and embarked on doing a double extension and major renovations of the house inside, insulation/UF heating with heat pump etc, granted he can do a lot himself as he's a tradesman but the materials/labour costs are really taking a toll on his mental health at this point, he bought the house in late 2019 so the rises were somewhat unexpected.

JDigweed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052478#Comment_118052478

It's not much to expect a recent accurate photograph. Whatever the feelings are about the account, he's calling out bullshit where it's due. Estate agents deliberately misleading people with incorrect addresses.

1percent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052761#Comment_118052761

And the bottom right corner of the downstairs front window has been bricked over! As photos shops go it's awful

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052794#Comment_118052794

It all depends on what you are ant. If you want to revamp the complete house. Then buy the cheapest house in an area within reason. However at present building and upgrading costs are expensive it is questioning the value of these houses and viability of attempting a project like this.

Saw this on daft for Limerick.

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-bel-air-ballinacurra-road-co-limerick/3464368

However IMO you will need 150-200k to revamp this house. You would want to be 100% sure you have the financial ability to carry out such a project. Often this is an area trades people who buy these projects fail to understand. They feel they can carry out all the work themselves. They have a go at plumbing, tiling, carpentry, structural work and plastering. What they fail to grasp is they often take twice the time a tradesperson who specialises in that skill takes. Many would be better off working extra hours in there own trade and pay a skilled person in that trade.

mcsean2163

1. If you get paid €1000 and pay 400 tax, then you can pay someone else 600 for your 1000 work.

2. Where do you find a skilled tradesman?

We've had tradesmen do really awful jobs. If you do it yourself it's way cheaper, may take longer but at least done right.

jill_valentine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052730#Comment_118052730

It's not. If you look at the driveway brickwork again, it's definitely photoshop. It's just cloned and pasted over a few times, and they've done it that badly they've eaten about ten inches off the bottom of the house, and left a small bar of fine, mysterious mist around it instead.

wassie

Updated pic with a new Tweet:

They've removed the Photoshopped photo now (sky is still edited). However, it shouldn't be the case that I have to keep highlighting this stuff to hold Estate Agents to account. The property industry regulations are so poorly enforced here.

Spot the difference

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053645#Comment_118053645

Tradespeople are usually able to source other reputable trades people if they cannot there is no hope for the rest of us. Most tradespeople are self employed now in plumbing and electrical unless they work for very large contractors. Therefore you would have a certain amount of leeway to push some of the expense through your sole trader account. As well even if a PAYE trades person you would still have the ability to do the infamous''Tommers'' and get paid cash or not put the jobs through the system. I always work on the assumption that I will earm more money at my own skillset than I will save by doing really skilled jobs myself.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118054449#Comment_118054449

A close neighbor is an XX on building sites, so well connected. He had to fire the guy he got and do it himself.

Twice we called a plumber to fix our tank, in the end I had to go up and fix the ballcock myself.

Quote to replace manhole in back about €1,400, replaced myself with far superior frame & cover for €250.

We live in an old house and have serious problems getting skilled tradespeople at a reasonable price despite knowing a lot.

It guess it depends, if you're earning over €200k a year, it's an easy financial decision to get people in. If you're earning less than €100k you might be better off doing a lot of jobs yourself.

mcsean2163

Am I missing something?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/lands-at-ballybrew-enniskerry-co-wicklow/4541435

€220k for two acres of agricultural land.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118055208#Comment_118055208

I'm also baffled by this. It's not even like it's agricultural land very close to a town where it has the potential for development. They're selling it specifically saying there is not and never has been planning permission to build anything. How would anyone farming the land be able to justify spending that much on it?

rob316

I have about 10 acres zoned for half that, that price is mental.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053645#Comment_118053645

There is a youtube video for absolutely everything you can think of, that is how I learn everything. The one caveat I generally have is water and electricity, bar basic to medium jobs I would get in a qualified tradesmen. One has the potential to wreck your home, the other to kill you. I'd would have also considered a plasterer before but there is skim tools you can buy now that make a decent finish achievable for a DIYer.

All joinery, carpentry, tiling, painting, I do myself. It requires investing in tools but even then you can buy perfectly adequate tools for DIY for cheap in Lidl now. It won't be perfect but I cant put a price on the satisfaction I get when someone compliments something in my home and I tell them "I made that".

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056505#Comment_118056505

I suspect they are trying to price gouge who ever own'es the the property at the back that the right of way is over. It would be interesting to know what is site value up there if one got planning on half an acre. I presume a site is up near 100K. Because therewas never planning it was never refused so you could start the process. I say thereal target is to force a decent price off the property ownerwho is on the ROW

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118057351#Comment_118057351

There might be. It doesn't technically say they've never applied for PP, just that it's never had it. I'd imagine it would be hard to get in a place like that anyway for building a house.

mcsean2163

Some good news on the housing front.

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/more-homes-being-built-than-forecast-as-construction-activity-rebounds-40974167.html

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058434#Comment_118058434

How many will be available to ordinary buyers, instead of councils,reits and charities though?

rob316

90k units our housing peaking in 2006 of the celtic tiger years. Unfathomable to get near those numbers again

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058379#Comment_118058379

However I say that is the point they are trying to get accross is that planning was never applied for there. It's easy enough to check you just log onto the Council planning map and if planning was ever applied for on that field there will be an icon on it that the will give the details.

Its obivious that the people who have the ROW will try to buy it if possible. As strictly agriculture land it's has a top value of 15-20k/ acre. At 30-50k these people would be by themselves buying it unless someone wants it to build a house and use the large site to keep a pony.

There is no guarantee of getting planning but if local to the area I imagine there is term and conditions under which you can apply. The usual procedure would be to make a deal subject to planning. If planning was already refused on the site for any reasons you are at nothing. It fairly obvious the only way it worth anything more than agriculture value is if someone is able to get planning on it.

I imagine they are hoping the householders behind will bid to prevent this.

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058626#Comment_118058626

All the talk is of materials cost increasing, however anecdotally talking to quite a few mid-sized to larger builders at the moment, their bigger concern is availability of decent quality labour. As I see it this can only be resolved in the medium term by importing skilled labour, but there is no where for them to be housed!

Villa05

We really need to to examine what FG mean when they say they want Ireland to be the best country to do business.

The Chivers site debacle seems particularly galling and in my opinion needs further investigation given our history and failure to close out mistakes of the past.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40727238.html

Meanwhile real business is struggling to find accomodation for workers. The economy and housing should be a symbiotic relationship, instead housing is allowed to be a parasite on the economy until they are both killed off.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40726659.html

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065210#Comment_118065210

completely agree, this is an extremely dangerous situation for both society and the economy, its been allowed fester, even encouraged, for decades now, enough is enough, we have to sort this asap, or.....

Villa05

This company cited cost of living as a major contributing factor in choosing Shannon/limerick for their operations as did Northern trust over a decade earlier. Northern Trust are on course for 2k employees.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/1022/1255232-jobs-edwards-lifesciences/

Reasnobly priced property gives us a a significant competitive advantage. Everything should be done to achieve it as we need another string to our bow now that corporation tax is under attack.

Imagine what Ireland could be if we said reasnobly priced housing was as important as corporation tax

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065504#Comment_118065504

tbh im glad we re making moves on corporation tax, as we cant keep doing this, we cant keep lumping the bulk of tax onto citizens shoulders, even though im aware we may lose financially to the current situation, i think a global move is the only way to tackle this one, but it wont be easy. i do think we urgently need to change the way we accept corporation tax though, and start utilising things such as sovereign wealth funds, which i think could be used to tackle our housing issues

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065210#Comment_118065210

They pretty much mean the sort of big business that is only interested in tax breaks. The Irish support for SMEs during Covid was mickey mouse compared to the UK's bounce-back loan system.

Covid has forced a lot of people to sit down and do the sums all at the same time. The results should surprise no-one.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065610#Comment_118065610

sme's are always on the sh1t end of the stick, our supports throughout covid, for both sme's and their employees have been nothing but atrocious, and now we re removing those supports, this is just bloody dangerous now, as most are employed within the sme sectors. its also bloody disturbing to see many sme owners viewing these supports as competition to their businesses, no theyre not, this is nuts!

Villa05

Norway's wealth fund is worth over 1 trillion, that is 4 times Ireland's public debt. Over 50% of its value is made up of actual returns. The fund was set up in the 90s

Norway was a poorer country than Ireland in the 50/60s.

There are options to run a country in the best interests of all its citizens rather than powerful small interest groups.

We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, however much of that wealth is hoovered up by 1 sector.

Hence the title of one of its biggest sales platform is Daft

Villa05

Land hoarding on an epic scale. City centre Land acquired in 1889 and idle ever since. Dereliction and land need to be taxed

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/property/681499/proposed-sale-of-vacant-site-to-limerick-hotel-put-on-hold-as-councillors-seek-clarity.html

Marius34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065815#Comment_118065815

You can't compare Ireland wealth resource with Norway, UAE, Kuwait or Qatar. Although they all similar in it's size, but some countries got lucky with it's natural resources, Ireland didn't.

Marius34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058519#Comment_118058519

The increase of residential construction is good new regardless, as there will be more place for people to house. If they really manage to build 27K properties next year, I guess there will be increase in sales for ordinary buyers as well.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065864#Comment_118065864

rampant in my neck of the woods, it ll be interesting to see if the new tax laws will reduce this from happening

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065875#Comment_118065875

we re not fully utilizing our resources, its possible to create such a fund here to, but theres virtually little or no will to, particularly politically

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065875#Comment_118065875

Oil/gas is not the only source of wealth. The UK had rich sources of the same and did not use the returns wisely.

Using wealth to drive up the cost of everything is a 0 sum game

Ireland has been for some time and continues to be 1 of the wealthiest nations in the world but has very little to show for it except a debt mountain we will be passing on to our children

That is poor management in anyone's book

Marius34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066208#Comment_118066208

Even UK, is not comparable to Norway public wealth. UK has 10 times less oil/gas natural resource per capita.

Marius34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066040#Comment_118066040

It's possible, but nothing close to the level of Norway gas/oil funds.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066208#Comment_118066208

we ve actually been pretty good at managing our books, particularly pre 08, again, the real debt burden is private debt, its now so bad, many younger folks simply cant get access to its creator, i.e. credit, its in fact this political and economic approach thats ultimately crippling us, i.e. a primarily credit fueled economy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066699#Comment_118066699

maybe, and maybe not, we could use our major wealth creator, i.e. mnc's, it could easily be done

Ireland Debt.jpg

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065210#Comment_118065210

While the rents seem high the return on funds is 5.8% and this is at 100%occupancy. You have to now factor in that if these apartments came for sale at the moment they would be worth another 50-60k so an investment fund allowing for a vacancy rate would leave a return of 5%. This has to cover running costs as well.

Lazy journalism, similar to a lot of what goes on with property, investment funds and rents. We are constantly getting knee jerk reactions similar to the way the opposition creates a hue and cry over the rise in rents.

Journalists are slow to hold opposition to account over such panic creating carry on. It similar to last March/April when the Opposition were on about a zero COVID strategy, we now see where this landed NZ and Australia both of which were Island nations with no land borders especially with one of the worst in class country dealing with COVID

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066595#Comment_118066595

That's a fancy way of saying the UK had more oil and gas than Norway

UK is more than 10 times more populated than Norway.

Marius34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067986#Comment_118067986

Exactly, single portion in Norway shared for 10 in UK. That makes a big difference.

mcsean2163

We should definitely create a sovereign wealth fund for all our debt? What?

Third most indebted country per capita. Are we meant to borrow to create a sovereign wealth fund? I don't get it.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068301#Comment_118068301

Doesn't work that way, no country that finds oil shares it out as Proportion to the population of the country.

UK could have done the same as Norway and invest the profits in a sovereign wealth fund and have a trillion.

It's a gigantic sum of money even for a country with 65 million people. They chose a different approach