Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

timmyntc

Villa05 wrote: »

3.5 rule does not dictate price. investment funds backed up by unsustainable long term leases from the government set price thus creating a bubble

Yes but cant you see how the 3.5 income rule prevents the massive price inflation we would see otherwise? If people could get 100% mortgages with no ceiling, given our large demand for houses prices would skyrocket. If you think we're in a bubble now, without that borrowing restriction we would be 100 times worse off.

Marius34

Villa05 wrote: »

Social housing has never been delivered this way




3.5 rule does not dictate price. investment funds backed up by unsustainable long term leases from the government set price thus creating a bubble

what? private residents forms much bigger volume in transactions, than Funds. Some in here even say that even small HTB grant increases prices.

Wanderer78

timmyntc wrote: »

Yes but cant you see how the 3.5 income rule prevents the massive price inflation we would see otherwise? If people could get 100% mortgages with no ceiling, given our large demand for houses prices would skyrocket. If you think we're in a bubble now, without that borrowing restriction we would be 100 times worse off.

our property markets have found a way around this, via large investment groups, that do have access to credit markets, this is an element of why we re still experiencing inflation

Ace2007

Ace2007 wrote: »

But there are nurses, teachers, garda all in longford, All getting paid the same as someone in Dublin but with a lower cost of living. Maybe they are the smart ones?

What exactly do you want?

There are literally thousands of highly skilled and highly paid individuals in Ireland who can afford to paid large sums of monies for houses.

You have this sense of entitlement -

This is someone saying that Gardai, nurses and teachers are entitled to want to own in the city where they work. All of those jobs should migrate to Longford.

To hell or to Longford. Basically.

Ace2007

fvp4 wrote: »

This is someone saying that Gardai, nurses and teachers are entitled to want to own in the city where they work. All of those jobs should migrate to Longford.

To hell or to Longford. Basically.

Previous poster eluded to that if things don't change these workers would leave the country - kinda funny that they would leave Ireland for work and new life, but wouldnt' relocated within Ireland for work and house that they can afford.

Amadan Dubh

cnocbui wrote: »

Don't set up business in Dublin. I have long thought one way for governments to deal with the single attractor problem - France is even worse, with it being Paris, and nothing but Paris - would be to scale corporate tax by proximity to population centres so that the further away you are from major population centres, the greater the reduction in tax.

In other words it wouldn't be a tax penalty, but a tax incentive.

The government should have set about building a Dublin scale hospital near Shannon airport, with nearby family accommodation, 20 years ago, to alleviate the 20 years of bed shortages at Limerick Regional and to stop this inhumane business of so many people having to travel to Dublin for specialist treatment. That location would let it serve Cork and Galway catchments as well as Limerick.

Specialist pediatic nurses and the like, would then have an alternative to living in Dublin.

Great comment and I think it touches on a big issue not addressed during the last 10 years of growth as well; infrastructure investment and town planning. I know we are where we are now without these things getting much focus the last 10 years but it would be borderline criminal to waste this crisis and not try to develop the rest of the country post-pandemic. For me, a lot of places outside Dublin don't even look like they got much out of the Celtic Tiger, let alone the last 10 years - Cork and Limerick are two major cities and yet look very run down in many parts. This may be a bit extreme but I feel a lot of our growth the last 20 years could easily be lost (Celtic Tiger growth turned out to be artificial and the last few years only look good due to MNCs using us for tax purposes) so I think it is essential we look to reduce our economic reliance on what happens in Dublin. Our niche offering could be this quality of life offering without compromising on a corporate job - one could have access to the countryside/the sea with affordable housing and communities which are great for raising children, but still have the ability to be connected with flexi-hubs and high quality internet as well as excellent transport to larger cities. Of course, small businesses would be able to set up to facilitate this growth outside of Dublin.

Things like government built housing but also incentives for developing housing and infrastructure outside of Dublin, in other towns and cities. National broadband is obviously essential but also government investment in infrastructure to get companies to operate and people to live outside of Dublin. For example, tax incentives for companies to implement as much WFH as possible; set up co-working hubs in towns; subsidise childcare; sports and recreation grants; facilitate better sustainable transport in towns (i.e. encourage cycling/electric scooters and walking in and around towns - around towns especially as a lot of housing estates sprawling outside of towns are flanked by dangerous and busy roads in and out of those towns); more ambitious but a high speed rail network upgrade to make Dublin accessible from towns and cities in much faster time.

Announcements like these are exactly what we want to see;

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/companies/property-company-noco-signs-hybrid-workspace-deals-1.4573490

Property company NoCo signs hybrid workspace deals

Projet allows staff to access more than 100 remote working locations in a single network

Property company NoCo has signed a number of deals with a range of co-working providers across the country to create one Ireland’s largest hybrid workspace network.

The deal allows workers to access more than 100 remote working locations in a single network, providing companies of any size and scale with a solution for staff who want to move to a more flexible work model. Companies can access open or shared workspaces or have their own bespoke dedicated office network created for them.

Among the partners signed up to the new network are Huckletree, MSpace and Republic of Work, along with the Premier Business Centres Group.

Locations include towns and cities such as Dublin, Tralee, Naas, Portlaoise, Newtownmountkennedy, Carlow, Cork and Kilkenny. NoCo is setting its sights on the UK and Europe, planning to grow its workspace network there before the end of the year.

The property company said it was already seeing significant demand from some of large professional services firms, along with estblished hybrid-working companies such as telecommunications firm Welltel and managed legal solutions provider Johnson Hana.

“We are delighted to partner with NoCo, whose objectives in supporting flexible and highly-productive work, aligns closely with our operating model,” said Johnson Hana’s chief executive Dan Fox.

“Johnson Hana has lawyers registered on our platform who are based all across the country, and through the NoCo network we can now support them with an appropriate workplace environment – closer to both where they live, and our client sites. NoCo provides an innovative solution to a constantly evolving working landscape. We can scale our office requirements to suit client demand.”

timmyntc

Ace2007 wrote: »

Previous poster eluded to that if things don't change these workers would leave the country - kinda funny that they would leave Ireland for work and new life, but wouldnt' relocated within Ireland for work and house that they can afford.

You assume that there are jobs a plenty all over Ireland. There are not.
Most people move to Dublin in the first place for work. If it was so easy to get good jobs down the country, why would there be such a strong flow of people into Dublin for work?

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

You assume that there are jobs a plenty all over Ireland. There are not.
Most people move to Dublin in the first place for work. If it was so easy to get good jobs down the country, why would there be such a strong flow of people into Dublin for work?

no point in having a 'good' job if you are worse off.

Amadan Dubh

Cyrus wrote: »

firstly we need to forget about the obsession with 2008 prices, it was 13 years ago and at some point id imagine we will exceed those prices, it isnt automatically a bad thing.

I disagree and would say it is necessarily a bad thing unless we had some strong evidence to the contrary. For example, salaries have not increased by much since that time and mortgage borrowing is limited to 3.5 times your salary which would indicate the lack of affordability for individuals at current levels. Also, the IT and other cheerleaders are the ones obsessed with Celtic Tiger property levels as they use them to justify the increases of the last 9 years!

Cyrus wrote: »

secondly, what the market at 1m and slightly above is showing you is the CB limits kicking in. People buying at 1m-1.5m are in the main salaried couples like everyone else, they just have higher salaries. They are still bound by the 3.5x rule and there is also the fear that if something happens to a very well paid job will you get the same again somewher else so a lot of people wont borrow their absolute maximum as once you get to mortgage levels over 600k the monthly repayments are eye opening.

That is the part of the market that hasnt inflated as much as lower ends as there are less people in it and the CB rules is stopping them from going beyond what they can afford. which is a good thing.

Even high earners, outside of the 0.01% on hundreds of 000s, let's say 200k p.a. combined, they are still limited to a maximum borrowing of 700k so they would need to have at least 300k between savings and equity in their current home in order to buy the 1m house, let alone the 1.5m house.

From a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation, house prices in this higher price category have increased 50-55% since 2012, which is not as high but I still think there is a big affordability ceiling and my own anecdotal experience is that generally haircuts on houses above 1m will be required, of varying degrees. The older people who have in no way paid anything close to what their house is apparently worth are the ones who will take the biggest haircut.

That being said, there's 78000 millionaires in Ireland!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/number-of-irish-millionaires-rises-by-3-000-to-nearly-78-000-1.3824256

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

what? private residents forms much bigger volume in transactions, than Funds. Some in here even say that even small HTB grant increases prices.

They may do nationally, How about high demand areas in cities. Dublin apartments are effectively monopolised by funds now and there becoming increasingly active in houses in the burbs and beyond.. The stamp duty changes will do nothing to stop the tide.

The UK set there's at 15% and it was found to be ineffective against these funds and have further increased it. You don't hear this on Irish media. Politicians are just allowed spout the same oul line

We have put a 10 fold increase on their stamp duty

Nobody questions it, or brings up that 15% was found to be ineffective in the UK

Potential Buyers in these areas are priced out and rental inflation is forcing them further and further away to buy, so we see much higher inflation in Dublin Satellite counties.

Yes its a little bit different this time, but the outcomes and results are very familiar from our recent history.

The few things different are the rocketing national debt and people's knowledge that if you don't pay your mortgage, you can keep it for at least a decade by playing the system.
Would you like to be going to poorer countries than us with a begging bowl because we messed up again with property.
That's where we are heading

Cyrus

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

From a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation, house prices in this higher price category have increased 50-55% since 2012, which is not as high but I still think there is a big affordability ceiling and my own anecdotal experience is that generally haircuts on houses above 1m will be required, of varying degrees. The older people who have in no way paid anything close to what their house is apparently worth are the ones who will take the biggest haircut.

That being said, there's 78000 millionaires in Ireland!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/number-of-irish-millionaires-rises-by-3-000-to-nearly-78-000-1.3824256

like everything else, houses in this bracket that are in walk in condition are selling quickly and good properties in excellent locations are selling quickly,

those chancing their arm are sitting there.

cunningham road / knocknacree park in dalkey is a prime example, one house at 1.75m sold in a few weeks, others at 1.5 and 1.9 have been for sale longer and are sitting there.

Ace2007

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

Even high earners, outside of the 0.01% on hundreds of 000s, let's say 200k p.a. combined, they are still limited to a maximum borrowing of 700k so they would need to have at least 300k between savings and equity in their current home in order to buy the 1m house, let alone the 1.5m house.

If they are on 200k combined in secure jobs, they'll get the exemption and so can borrow 900k.

JimmyVik

timmyntc wrote: »

You assume that there are jobs a plenty all over Ireland. There are not.
Most people move to Dublin in the first place for work. If it was so easy to get good jobs down the country, why would there be such a strong flow of people into Dublin for work?

Most people who grow up in a rural area cant wait to GTFO
You wont find too many of them looking to move back in a hurry.
I know several people who moved from the city to the countryside.
They loved it for a year or two but it didnt take.
Country living is not for everyone, especially if you spend half your life commuting.

Villa05

JimmyVik wrote:

Country living is not for everyone, especially if you spend half your life commuting.

Moving back to work in Dublin is not going to solve that problem for the vast majority.

timmyntc

JimmyVik wrote: »

Most people who grow up in a rural area cant wait to GTFO
You wont find too many of them looking to move back in a hurry.
I know several people who moved from the city to the countryside.
They loved it for a year or two but it didnt take.
Country living is not for everyone, especially if you spend half your life commuting.

Down the country doesnt mean countryside, just anywhere outside the Pale.

Plenty of people would be happy to live in their towns outside Dublin than have to move up for work. But if you want a good salary you have to go to Dublin - thats where the jobs are. Which is fair enough - but given the jobs are there you should be at least able to afford to live there.

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

But if you want a good salary you have to go to Dublin - thats where the jobs are. Which is fair enough - but given the jobs are there you should be at least able to afford to live there.

suggests people arent doing their sums then, its not a good salary if you have a worse standard of living.

Marius34

Villa05 wrote: »

They may do nationally, How about high demand areas in cities. Dublin apartments are effectively monopolised by funds now and there becoming increasingly active in houses in the burbs and beyond.. The stamp duty changes will do nothing to stop the tide.

The UK set there's at 15% and it was found to be ineffective against these funds and have further increased it. You don't hear this on Irish media. Politicians are just allowed spout the same oul line

We have put a 10 fold increase on their stamp duty

Nobody questions it, or brings up that 15% was found to be ineffective in the UK

Potential Buyers in these areas are priced out and rental inflation is forcing them further and further away to buy, so we see much higher inflation in Dublin Satellite counties.

Yes its a little bit different this time, but the outcomes and results are very familiar from our recent history.

The few things different are the rocketing national debt and people's knowledge that if you don't pay your mortgage, you can keep it for at least a decade by playing the system.
Would you like to be going to poorer countries than us with a begging bowl because we messed up again with property.
That's where we are heading

But most people I hear are looking to buy house, not the apartments.
So it's funds regulate house price? HTB grants has no impact on price?

cnocbui

timmyntc wrote: »

You assume that there are jobs a plenty all over Ireland. There are not.
Most people move to Dublin in the first place for work. If it was so easy to get good jobs down the country, why would there be such a strong flow of people into Dublin for work?

There are universities in Cork, limerick and Galway, not to mention hospitals, dental clinics, airports. I think you are exagerating a bit. My ex is on 2.3 times the national average salary, and lives in Limerick.

Ace2007

cnocbui wrote: »

There are universities in Cork, limerick and Galway, not to mention hospitals, dental clinics, airports. I think you are exagerating a bit. My ex is on 2.3 times the national average salary, and lives in Limerick.

Would be be your ex if he was on 4.7 times :pac::pac:

timmyntc

cnocbui wrote: »

There are universities in Cork, limerick and Galway, not to mention hospitals, dental clinics, airports. I think you are exagerating a bit. My ex is on 2.3 times the national average salary, and lives in Limerick.

And? Do you expect all the hospital staff, dentists, airport staff to move en mass from Dublin? Because they are the only people who could move from Dublin to those places and work in those jobs, and Dublin badly needs them too.

Not near a workable solution.

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

And? Do you expect all the hospital staff, dentists, airport staff to move en mass from Dublin? Because they are the only people who could move from Dublin to those places and work in those jobs, and Dublin badly needs them too.

Not near a workable solution.

surely their concern is themselves not what dublin needs?

timmyntc

Cyrus wrote: »

surely their concern is themselves not what dublin needs?

Individuals can and do go - thats why most hospitals that part of the country are well enough staffed - or at least they dont have a lot of openings. Same goes for universities and the regional airports. Now whether the staff came from Dublin or were always based out West, who knows - but there are not a lot of easily gotten jobs in those places.

Unless you are aware of a massive dentist shortage in Limerick

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

Individuals can and do go - thats why most hospitals that part of the country are well enough staffed - or at least they dont have a lot of openings. Same goes for universities and the regional airports. Now whether the staff came from Dublin or were always based out West, who knows - but there are not a lot of easily gotten jobs in those places.

Unless you are aware of a massive dentist shortage in Limerick

I have yet to see a poor dentist if i am honest be that in Wexford, Dublin or anywhere else so im sure if one set up a practice in Limerick they would do just fine.

People have teeth everywhere

timmyntc

Cyrus wrote: »

I have yet to see a poor dentist if i am honest be that in Wexford, Dublin or anywhere else so im sure if one set up a practice in Limerick they would do just fine.

People have teeth everywhere

If you don't see poor dentists in Dublin, then why would they leave in the first place? Clearly its a profession that gets paid enough to afford to live in Dublin

cnocbui

Cyrus wrote: »

surely their concern is themselves not what dublin needs?

As is your concern for what Dublin needs, not the rest of the country. No cancer patients in Dublin have to drag themselves across country to Galway for tretment away from family support for days.

I wasn't suggesting take from Dublin, I was suggesting create non Dublin capcity and facilities which is lacking and which has been needed for the past 20 years.

Dublin has 38% of the population and 78% (made up) of the medical resources. It certainly snarfs all the high end capacity.

Don't you remember the neo-natal nurse with the excuse she couldn't work anywhere but Dublin because sick premies can only be cared for in Dublin - which is both sick making and attrocious.

There are better ways for the government to reduce the housing pressure on Dublin, but they and the civil/public service don't want to go there, even it would benefit the majority of the population.

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

If you don't see poor dentists in Dublin, then why would they leave in the first place? Clearly its a profession that gets paid enough to afford to live in Dublin

of course, but maybe not where they want to live in dublin.

you dont see how someone could earn less and have a better standard of living outside dublin?

cnocbui

Ace2007 wrote: »

Would be be your ex if he was on 4.7 times :pac::pac:

She, sexist.

Ace2007

timmyntc wrote: »

If you don't see poor dentists in Dublin, then why would they leave in the first place? Clearly its a profession that gets paid enough to afford to live in Dublin

Then why included it in your list of individuals when making the point that they can't afford the cost of Dublin property?

timmyntc

Cyrus wrote: »

of course, but maybe not where they want to live in dublin.

you dont see how someone could earn less and have a better standard of living outside dublin?

Of course, but same could be said for remote working in Spain or Portugal with a better standard of living.

Some people do want to live in Dublin - and not necessarily in the upmarket posh areas, just in the city somewhere. People should not have to aspire to buy a house in Kildare, Meath or Portlaois so that they can be "near" to Dublin. Dublin is very low density and has swathes of undeveloped land - there is no reason for it to be as expensive as it is right now relative to the average incomes in Dublin

timmyntc

Ace2007 wrote: »

Then why included it in your list of individuals when making the point that they can't afford the cost of Dublin property?

I didn't include that. cnocbui made the list up

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

Of course, but same could be said for remote working in Spain or Portugal with a better standard of living.

Some people do want to live in Dublin - and not necessarily in the upmarket posh areas, just in the city somewhere. People should not have to aspire to buy a house in Kildare, Meath or Portlaois so that they can be "near" to Dublin. Dublin is very low density and has swathes of undeveloped land - there is no reason for it to be as expensive as it is right now relative to the average incomes in Dublin

well back to your last post a dentist could afford to live in lots of parts of dublin.

and remote working in spain or portugal isnt an alternative if you are an irish tax payer employed by an irish legal entity.

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

But most people I hear are looking to buy house,

Hence the significant rises in the commuter belt from those priced out of Dublin and escaping the rents

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

So it's funds regulate house price? HTB grants has no impact on price?

If you control high demand areas you control price and push out those that can't afford leading to rises further out, ripple effect

Marius34

Villa05 wrote: »

If you control high demand areas you control price and push out those that can't afford leading to rises further out, ripple effect

So? HTB help, do not increase the price? If we remove 3.5x income ceiling prices won't go up?

keoclassic

This is the madness we are back to.......

https://www.myhome.ie/priceregister/10-cypress-gardens-athlone-co-westmeath-co-westmeath-587310


Now on the market for 275,000. I'd say no more than 20-30,000 put into it. No new housing being built in Athlone save for 1 small development. Depressing. It's pure greed.

cnocbui

It's not greed. Selling your house for the going market rate is what everyone does and it's what you would do too in their position.

Just be thankful they didn't buy bitcoin instead, which would now be worth about €8.1 million.

Bass Reeves

keoclassic wrote: »

This is the madness we are back to.......

https://www.myhome.ie/priceregister/10-cypress-gardens-athlone-co-westmeath-co-westmeath-587310


Now on the market for 275,000. I'd say no more than 20-30,000 put into it. No new housing being built in Athlone save for 1 small development. Depressing. It's pure greed.

Not really. 85K was below building cost. Just looked at it on YouTube if 30k did up the inside of the house it was all done straight after buying. Looks a strong price for the house of it is achieved. Not familiar with Athlone prices. If it's a family moving they will more than likely add 150k+ to buy there next home. At the end of the day they had enough balls not to listen to the naysayers when they bought it and it worked out for them. If they moved a year or two earlier 100k with a lesser price for that house word buy what they will pay 150k now

keoclassic

cnocbui wrote: »

It's not greed. Selling your house for the going market rate is what everyone does and it's what you would do too in their position.

Just be thankful they didn't buy bitcoin instead, which would now be worth about €8.1 million.

It's greed. It won't make the price, but it is greed. Your right that the house will sell for market value but putting a value of 275 on it is greed. If the local authority buy that house...... Is that the market value?

Bass Reeves

I cannot understand with people fascination with prices back around 2013/14. These prices were anything from 30-40% of building costs. To my eternal regret I did not gamble a bit back then. I went to see a group 4 X2 bed apartments in Limerick one day with a reserve of 130k. I was prepared to have a go at them but some other investor threw a 155k bid on them and that blew me out of it. There was an agent in place who looked after the place and he said the rental return was 480/unit at the time. I am not sure if I could have financed it but they are surly worth 120/130k each now and yielding 800-1k/apartment.

I remember in 2010 an old lad yelling me that real money is made in a recession compared to s boom

Marius34

keoclassic wrote: »

It's greed. It won't make the price, but it is greed. Your right that the house will sell for market value but putting a value of 275 on it is greed. If the local authority buy that house...... Is that the market value?

And what sellers should do in this situation?

cnocbui

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I cannot understand with people fascination with prices back around 2013/14. These prices were anything from 30-40% of building costs. To my eternal regret I did not gamble a bit back then. I went to see a group 4 X2 bed apartments in Limerick one day with a reserve of 130k. I was prepared to have a go at them but some other investor threw a 155k bid on them and that blew me out of it. There was an agent in place who looked after the place and he said the rental return was 480/unit at the time. I am not sure if I could have financed it but they are surly worth 120/130k each now and yielding 800-1k/apartment.

I remember in 2010 an old lad yelling me that real money is made in a recession compared to s boom

I never got as serious as you, but there were four incomplete town houses in killaloe/Ballina that were incomplete and which I spent time considering if I should enquire about the price and have a go. They were a NAMA sale and had they been available individually, I might have given one a go. They have sat there for over a decade.

Somone bought them recently and there was a flurry of activity a few months ago but nothing recently. Should make an absolute killing for someone:

awec

cnocbui wrote: »

I never got as serious as you, but there were four incomplete town houses in killaloe/Ballina that were incomplete and which I spent time considering if I should enquire about the price and have a go. They were a NAMA sale and had they been available individually, I might have given one a go. They have sat there for over a decade.

Somone bought them recently and there was a flurry of activity a few months ago but nothing recently. Should make an absolute killing for someone:

It would depend on what they're like inside. If they've never been inhabited or heated then there's a decent chance they need taken right back to an empty shell.

Ardillaun

timmyntc wrote: »

Ireland's spiralling cost of housing will make us non-competitive as a place to do business. So job-creating through FDI will dry up, and some of business that are here currently will lose profits (maybe even some cutbacks in staff)
Which means less taxes for the state. It's bad news for everyone

This is a perspective that the government doesn’t seem to take seriously enough.

cnocbui

awec wrote: »

It would depend on what they're like inside. If they've never been inhabited or heated then there's a decent chance they need taken right back to an empty shell.

They are empty shells. I always surmised that who ever built them ran out of funds to finish them off.

Bass Reeves

cnocbui wrote: »

They are empty shells. I always surmised that who ever built them ran out of funds to finish them off.

There was lots of similar type developments hanging around most have been bought by smaller builders by now. They could never be sold singly as often connections to water, waste or sewage plants. As well as buildings are semidetached in this case these types of developments had to be sold as one lot. Only way would have been to get three similar minded individuals involved with you.

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

So? HTB help, do not increase the price? If we remove 3.5x income ceiling prices won't go up?

The market in Dublin has moved beyond HTB plus 3.5/4.5 times income hence the panic to introduce shared ownership which would effectively bring it to 4.5/5.5 times income on new homes.
Is this enough to compete with investment funds or will they continue to blow FTB out of the water and take price to increasing levels of unsustainability

It's important to remember that the mortgage rules were imposed upon by those that bailed us out as we were seen as incapable of running a proper functioning market which is a correct assumption

All government action has been attempts to get around mortgage rules and turn it back into the massive risk it is now

As people are priced out of Dublin to other areas, they are pricing people working in those areas out of that area.
For a country with an abundance of land in proportion to its population this is bad housing management

Should a crash occur those that have long commutes to work, away from from family/ friends will be far more likely to default given what happened 10 years ago.

You come across as a knowledgeable poster. Is there any aspect of this post you disagree with. I'd love to believe that this country is rich beyond dreams and that we can afford all this madness

I want to be proven wrong!

Bass Reeves wrote:

I cannot understand with people fascination with prices back around 2013/14. These prices were anything from 30-40% of building costs. To my eternal regret I did not gamble a bit back then. I went to see a group 4 X2 bed apartments in Limerick one day with a reserve of 130k.

Tried myself in 2014 to get standalone 4 * 2 bed close to the crescent SS priced at 200k for my own use plus investment, but finance was impossible, had to settle for house in same area.
Investment mortgages were a no no, tried a 10 year secured loan but no go

cnocbui wrote:

I never got as serious as you, but there were four incomplete town houses in killaloe/Ballina that were incomplete.

Tried here also, different houses, but non connection to services put us off

Marius34

Villa05 wrote: »

The market in Dublin has moved beyond HTB plus 3.5/4.5 times income hence the panic to introduce shared ownership which would effectively bring it to 4.5/5.5 times income on new homes.

I don't think it was an answer to my simple yes/no question
So? what if it brings 4.5/5.5 times income? this won't increase the price? HTB has no impact on price?

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

I don't think it was an answer to my simple yes/no question So? what if it brings 4.5/5.5 times income? this won't increase the price? HTB has no impact on price?

So?
Incomplete question

Increasing multiples of income increase price

Htb will increase price

snow_bunny

Villa05 wrote: »

It's important to remember that the mortgage rules were imposed upon by those that bailed us out as we were seen as incapable of running a proper functioning market which is a correct assumption

All government action has been attempts to get around mortgage rules and turn it back into the massive risk it is now

As people are priced out of Dublin to other areas, they are pricing people working in those areas out of that area.
For a country with an abundance of land in proportion to its population this is bad housing management

Should a crash occur those that have long commutes to work, away from from family/ friends will be far more likely to default given what happened 10 years ago.

You come across as a knowledgeable poster. Is there any aspect of this post you disagree with. I'd love to believe that this country is rich beyond dreams and that we can afford all this madness

Finally, someone getting to the heart of it, in a nutshell.

People need to forget about avocado toast and holidays in Australia. You're ignoring the real problems and the interference going on in the market. If you'll excuse my French, we're being rode sideways to the benefit of foreign funds and to the detriment of our own society.

*again.

Ace2007

snow_bunny wrote: »

Finally, someone getting to the heart of it, in a nutshell.

People need to forget about avocado toast and holidays in Australia. You're ignoring the real problems and the interference going on in the market. If you'll excuse my French, we're being rode sideways to the benefit of foreign funds and to the detriment of our own society.

*again.

Just to be clear without investment funds many healthcare facilities and infrastructures would not exist. So while maybe they are not helping the situation in terms of buying house estates. As a society we need these investment funds and the capital that they are willing to provide.

Shopping centres/office blocks etc would either not be built or fall into disarray only for these investment funds. Private companies do not have the expertise or the outlay to purchase these block themselves.