Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463987#Comment_118463987

The fact you can't be believe, underscores the unpopular point being made.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467438#Comment_118467438

Yes. No problem with living in Mayfield. I'm not that far up myself like others. As I said, there is great people in Mayfield and it's a great location in a a suburb close to the city centre. The snobs go to ballincollig, carrigtwohill, carrigaline, midleton and I wouldn't buy in any of those far flung spots. At 289k you would get 6% return at your ease. Good deal.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468245#Comment_118468245

Is the current trend not people leaving Dublin. Where is this stat that the "vast majority" want to live in Dublin coming from

And if its becoming the most expensive social housing mecca in the world, will that accelerate the process of others leaving

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468359#Comment_118468359

deranged

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468450#Comment_118468450

Think differently, don't follow the crowd. Bit of a mad streak is essential in life I find. I think its gas the cork boys will pay 100k+ extra or more for a house on the opposite side of the river and 10kms further from the city. Fools and their money. You would be as well off and in macroom. 🤣🤣

awec

Timely article: 'Collapse' in home ownership among young adults (rte.ie)

"Home ownership among adults of prime working age has "collapsed" since the financial crisis, according to a report from the Parliamentary Budget Office.

Using an international housing affordability survey, the Parliamentary Budget Office concludes the cost of housing here is "severely unaffordable"."

And most importantly:

"From 2012-2020, it finds that average wages grew by 23% while house prices grew by 77%. For some, this is making house ownership "unachievable", the report states."

"The PBO cites the figure published by Banking Payments Federation Ireland last year that home ownership among those under 30 has collapsed from 60% in 2004 to 27% in 2020."

This has nothing to do with avocado toast.

optogirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468245#Comment_118468245

Yes I know that. I'm aware we could buy a nice 3 bedroom in Laois but it would mean a total lifestyle change that neither of us want ,so it's renting for the foreseeable. We have babysitters on tap, city within walking distance & kids love their school wherein they get amazing support (eldest has Aspergers). The uprooting just isn't worth it for us when we weigh it up. We are paying rent & saving so it's hard but we have accepted that we are unlikely to be able to buy in the short term.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468491#Comment_118468491

you could find a 3 bed in dublin for 250-275k if you weren’t bothered about the area you are living in….just because people would prefer to live in a different area doesn’t make them a fool with their money as people have different views on value for money.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468632#Comment_118468632

Well it's fine if you can afford it. But if you're moaning that you can't afford a house in dalkey and nowhere else will do then they don't get sympathy from me. There is such snobbery in cork city they will pay 150k extra for a house further from the city centre or way out in the countryside as long as it isn't in the Northside. I'd consider that foolish.

Granolite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467598#Comment_118467598

It wasn't supposed to be depressing so I apologise if it came across that way! I suppose the point I am trying to make is that as someone in my mid-40's getting onto the property ladder wasn't a piece of cake either. In my case it meant forgoing settling down in Dublin but c'est la vie. Nobody pulled up the ladder. You just have to adapt to the circumstances as they face you. When the economic conditions were prime I was not focussed on buying.

We could have stuck in there and got across the line but after over a year spent house hunting in Dublin we decided to look elsewhere. It was a case of weighing up the pro's and con's of mortgaging ourselves to the hilt in our 40's for your typical ready to move in / live 3 bed semi in our preferred Dublin 5 - Dublin 7 target area and eating into nearly all our savings, balanced against a more manageable mortgage in a regional urban centre, with similar but lesser employment opportunities (for our respective skillsets) and retaining savings for the unexpected / rainy day.

Sometimes timing in life doesn't work out quite like you you want it but we are making new friends through our work and respective hobbies and have family and friends coming to visit us too and its fun and exciting starting a new adventure.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468683#Comment_118468683

the way you go on you seem to think there is some untapped market for people in this price range. Judging by that house in mayfield going 30k over asking, i'd say people are desperate and taking what they can get, not much evidence of snobbery.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468394#Comment_118468394

It’s where the majority of the well paid jobs are and therefore the vast majority want to live there. Until there is a more balanced approach to development of Jobs and FDI their will always be a premium paid to live in Dublin.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468717#Comment_118468717

Have you not seen the prices in bishops town or way out in ballincollig of similar houses. That house is cheaper than reinstatement value and there is plenty like it.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468683#Comment_118468683

I don’t think it is just a north side v south side thing as I am sure their are areas on the south side that people may also wish to avoid…

Even a lot of the big commuter towns in cork have their share of trouble and once the populations get a bit older they will have more trouble because of the number of teenagers in the area. Whilst older areas of the city that would have bad reputations in the past become quieter.

As I said before people have different opinions on value for money and just because they have a different opinion to yourself doesn’t mean they are foolish with money.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468791#Comment_118468791

Well I know several people paying 150k extra for similar or older houses in bishopstown and ballincollig Vs the Northside and I consider them to be foolish with their money. I lived in the city for years and I know how they think. I have houses either side of the river myself but prices on the southside and further out are just ridiculous imo.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468536#Comment_118468536

yup, wage inflation and asset price inflation, particularly related to property, have completely decoupled, this is a common outcome from modern political and economic ideologies, these ideologies have completely failed, and we re quickly running out of time to try resolve them

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468394#Comment_118468394

Have you any links to this. I mean you hear anecdotally of people moving back to the country and with working from home it may accelerate Dublin being less attractive in the future but Dublin has the best infrastructure, more house, more amenities, has the most jobs and more tourist attractions and if you take a simple snapshot of the total amount of people living in the Dublin area and its surrounding counties and compare to the rest of the country. It would point to the population density being highest here, ergo its the most desirable place in the country to live in currently, it may change in the future but it will take decades.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468491#Comment_118468491

They used to say that 30/40 years ago about areas likes Malahide and Portmarnock on the north side of Dublin now its quite an attractive area to live in. But be my guess keep waiting and gamble on someone coming in and selling houses for less than the cost to build. Good luck with that strategy

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468536#Comment_118468536

Bit of a spin there when house prices dropped anywhere from 50 to 80% from 2008 to 2011 when it brings in how much house prices grew by between 2011 to 2020. What really happened was property prices over corrected and between 2012 and now there has been a bit of re-correction in prices. Once again I point you and anyone else to the math I did earlier in the thread of a couple on the median wage buying the average house price in 2021 in Ireland and it only costs around 1/5th of their take home pay. A lot of experts reckon your mortgage should be not over 28% of your income or the 28% rule. But yet you and others keep trotting this stat out "housing in Ireland is unaffordable" without any metric or up to date real life figures. Can we also find out how much the under 30s paid out in cars, holidays, nights out, phones, takeaways and other luxuries and compare it to 2020? It may have nothing to do with avacado toast but to suggest that the under 30s are not spending more on discretionary spend in 2020 than in 2004 (pandemic aside) is a lie.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468825#Comment_118468825

Even 40 years ago the exact same house build off the same plans by the same builder one lot of houses on the north side and the other on the south side of cork demanded different prices. Just because the houses on the south side cost more didn’t mean they were not value for money.

if you bought one of these houses second hand the house on the north side will more than likely have more work done on them (extensions, redesign kitchens etc) but would still command a lower price than the equivalent house with the basic spec on the south side because of location, schools and facilities.

if you were just looking at price the house on north side would appear to better value if you bought 40 years ago. but the reality is the house on the south side was better value despite being dearer originally because it appreciated more because of location and facilities.

As I said before value is a personal choice.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468554#Comment_118468554

Well I feel for you that is a hard situation to be in but like I have been saying it has always been hard getting your foot on the first step of the ladder. Personally me and my better half spent over 4 years (in our early 20s) not going out, no car my only expense was a yearly train ticket for work. We lived with our parents separately to save on rent. I brought in the proverbial soggy sambo and lived like a monk. We saved in a credit union separately to borrow money for some of the deposit but also for the stamp duty which was fairly high (8%) at the time. I don't think you can do this today as the banks know all the loans against your name but back then it was a source of extra capital for people getting a mortgage. For the first 6 months after getting the mortgage we literally lived on beans and toast. If I have any advice keep going it will work out for you just keep an eye on the market for places that may not be in an ideal location or in an ideal condition but you can move closer as you get your debt down and you can do a house up over a long period of time. Good luck not easy living with a kid who is on the spectrum that brings its own set of challenges and hardships

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468728#Comment_118468728

I'm not doubting that the best paid jobs are there, just that it does not nesecarrily mean best quality of life and people are starting to realise this

I'm sure wfh has made the decision easier

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469163#Comment_118469163

I 100% agree with you when you look at quality of life. When I moved back to Ireland I automatically discounted living in Dublin despite the fact I would get a higher wage their because after taking housing costs into account I would have been financially worse off and would have spent more time traveling to work. It was a personal choice that suited me at the time but Ironically most of those jobs are now advertised as work from home which gives me way more options now.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469101#Comment_118469101

Think snobbery has alot to do with it myself. Anytime you can buy a house below the cost of replacement in a city location it's a good deal imo. And who buys for capital appreciation. I buy for value and location. And cash flow for investment. If capital appreciation comes that's all well and good but it is never an aim. Most people don't sell their property so the value isn't really important.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469334#Comment_118469334

your missing the point I am making different people will value things differently. That doesn’t make either of them right or wrong or as you put it foolish with money.

Just because you have your opinion on what you think is good value doesn’t mean everyone needs to agree with you.

If I was buying to rent out a property I would probably agree with you but other factors need to be considered when it comes to a property being your home. And those factors will be personal and different for everyone. Whether it is access to schools, sports facilities, proximity to family, commute to work etc. saying people are foolish with money because they don’t agree with your opinion and what you consider value is tunnel vision as you are unable to see a different point of view. If everyone thought the same it would be a very dull world to live in.

As for not having sympathy for today’s FTB’s whether they have avocados on toast or baked beans it has probably never been as hard to get on the property ladder. Yes buying a house is never easy and every generation had obstacles whether it was how difficult it was to get a mortgage because the banks would only consider one income because women had to give up jobs when they got married in the 70’s or the high interest rates in the 80’s or the central bank lending caps that were introduced after ‘08. The only time it was easy was in period prior to 08 because the banks would give 100% mortgage… yes a lot of these people bought at the peek and you were sat with negative equity for years but they are far better off than todays FTB’s because they were able to buy and get on the ladder

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469713#Comment_118469713

I understand what you are saying and I agree that is fine if you can afford it but if you can't one has to compromise. There seems to be very little compromise now but as far as I can see there was never so much money being spent on crap, entertainment, holidays, cars, fashion. And that level of discretionary spending was never there before. Entitlement I think they call it. When you make as many sacrifices as me and work as hard as I worked to get to where I am it's hard to have sympathy for the 39 hour week people. I do have sympathy for the people that studied hard, passed there exams and did everything right and got screwed with temporary contracts and poor rates of pay. But I've got kicked down loads of times myself and it's not nice and hopefully time will help those people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469334#Comment_118469334

Do you live in these houses or are they merely investments?

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118470372#Comment_118470372

I lived in Mayfield for 8 years, bishopstown for 4. Wouldn't live in ballincollig because it's too far from town. Loved the city people and their unique banter.

Beigepaint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466038#Comment_118466038

When Donogh O’Malley announced free post primary education in 1967, some of his own staff and the department of finance were furious. Why are we wasting money training so many people they said, if anyone feels they need second level education they can bloody well pay for it themselves they said. Where will we find the money, they said.

You remind me of those people, you are saying why should I pay extra taxes to improve housing and reduce commuting for all Irish citizens, when some or a lot of them will find a fudge and make it work somehow and probably be mostly alright.

Your opinions are backwards, regressive and selfish.

Nothing less than a drastic policy change will fix this situation.

I’d love to live in Killiney but I’ll settle for one of those new builds in Lucan once I have the deposit together.

Beigepaint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467552#Comment_118467552

I think I found Paschal Donohue’s boards account.