Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444362#Comment_119444362

And from Reading that article the beneficiaries of said works will be paying diddly squat in taxes. Outright robbery

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429237#Comment_119429237

Construction was heavily concentrated in the commercial sector over the 10's. This appears to be well supplied for now much of that labour is freed up for resedintial

In the 70's the UK took in many Irish and gave them jobs. I note that housing output in the UK is falling heavily. Surely there is scope their to increase our construction labour. It would be much more convenient for them to come to Ireland than any other EU country.

I have many uncles/aunts in the UK. There children and grand children are beginning to examine the prospect of reversing the journey of their fathers/mothers. Some had already purchased homes in the crash here.

There are glaring solutions to most of the issues presented here, it's the willingness of those in charge to grasp those solutions that is the problem

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444818#Comment_119444818

Can you please cite your source for "Construction was heavily concentrated in the commercial sector over the 10s"?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445652#Comment_119445652

There was virtually no houses build from 2008 to 2014. Commercial construction started faster than house building which did not really start in Dublin until 2016. At that stage commercial was starting to bomb along

Seems Catriona Carey hasn’t paid her own mortgage in 10 years. And is only now under threat of repossession. How the hell can someone not pay for 10 years without being evicted. It shows everything that’s wrong with our housing market. And makes me wonder why the hell I should bother paying my mortgage. Raging that people get away with this

Pussyhands

Here come the big tax breaks for landlords. Which will drive investors into the market to bid up property prices again.

Sierra Oscar

What is being proposed?

Bass Reeves

Government have no other choice. 60-100 k houses that are vacant are owners are unwilling to rent. LL issuing notice to vacate and selling rental properties at an astronomical rate. 3.5-4k units leaving the rental sector each year for the last five years and the rate of exit rising.

750 rental properties on daft nationwide at present. What's your solution

SummerK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454143#Comment_119454143

Build more houses that people can afford to buy.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454226#Comment_119454226

What about the people that cannot afford to buy?

What about people who dont want to buy?

What about students? People on placements around the country?

There are so many people for whom renting is a choice believe it or not, not everyone is in a situation to buy a house and put down roots. The rental market is incredibly important for any country including this.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454226#Comment_119454226

The government can only put policy in place. The market decides the rest. There is a huge demand for housing. The occupancy rate in owner occupied compared to rental is lower. LL and units leaving the sector are now a serious issue. We even have the crazy situation now where people can it get back there principal private residence after coming back to Ireland.

Dublin is a sh!tshow the rest of the country is fairly ok there is still options there if people choose. Nephew and his partner bought a house in the last few days. She has returned to college so her income was very low. The house was 250k the repayments ate 900/ month over 30 years. He has a trade and his income is 50-60k. They had some savings and there parents gifted them a little bit to get the deal over the line.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454432#Comment_119454432

That's quite manageable and a sustainable mortgage. I know some people uo around dublin paying over 1800 a month for mortgage for 30 years, very little wiggle room not to mention the stress when kids,school, child minding and college come down the line.

I am in the process of moving out of Dublin now as its a shitshow, not just the rent but the gouging for everything too.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454536#Comment_119454536

The only reason it's over 30 years I imagine is because she has two years in college remaining. When that is complete they can increase there payment and reduce it to 20 years

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454226#Comment_119454226

Do you think tradesmen and developers are sitting at home with nothing to do at the moment?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454143#Comment_119454143

Landlords leaving properties vacant means they should be taxed so much they're forced to sell it.

Giving landlords money to stay in the market does nothing for housing supply. These landlords exiting the market aren't building houses to rent. Then selling means that someone will own them to live in them.

If I hear someone say rentals are higher density I'll go mad. Sure why not allow huge slums, there's great density in those too.

You mention the rental supply. Are you saying there's no supply for buyers problem?

Smart investors buy low and sell high anyways.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454536#Comment_119454536

If you solve the buying problem you solve the rental situation. You kill two birds with one stone.

We have thousands of people renting who want to buy. If these people could buy, their rentals become free. It satisfies the pressure on sales and rental in one move.

manniot2

How are Dublin prices still increasing with the mass exodus? Surely that will have an impact soon. I suppose a certain cohort are stuck at this point but surely in a few years when nobody has to move to Dublin for work, we will see dramatic decreases.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454851#Comment_119454851

Occupancy rates of rental units is higher than that of homeowners. More people live in rented houseshares than families do in houses they own.

If all rental homes were sold to individuals who then lived in them, we would have an even worse rental shortage. It is a zero sum game in terms of houses, but occupancy rates actually mean more homeowners makes rental crisis worse.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454979#Comment_119454979

What mass exodus? If you look at the CSO Labour Force Survey for Q1 2022 you'll see that Dublin has by far seen the greatest percentage increase in employment, even on a per capita basis. There is strong growth in employment in Dublin, so it's no surprise demand for accommodation remains high.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-lfs/labourforcesurveyquarter12022/employment/

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454851#Comment_119454851

Yes, we could solve the housing crisis instantly if we could magically built a ton of new supply out of thin air.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455043#Comment_119455043

That's a terrible excuse though? Sure if its all about density then why not ban buying outright? Only allow landlords to buy and they'll pack the rooms with people. You'd have high density then. Do you support this?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455078#Comment_119455078

Well giving landlords tax breaks doesn't make house appear!

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454979#Comment_119454979

Because our country has been rammed full of refugees beyond our capacity.

There's an island off Cork that's population is increasing by 50% because they're going into the hotel!

Pussyhands

Look, all you homeowners and landlords, I understand you're looking out for your own interests. If I managed to buy in the next year or two I'd switch my vote from sinn fein to fine gael and FF to protect my interests. No harm in admitting it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455134#Comment_119455134

It’s not just that. It’s protecting the property. It’s impossible to evict tenants who are wrecking the place. PRTB are a joke. No way I am renting my place again. I’ll pay a tax if necessary - I’m not selling it as it’s likely I’ll need it in the future when I end up back in Dublin for work. I’d love for the market to function properly such that I can have confidence in doing so for the next few years, and not be held to ransom by bad tenants.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455085#Comment_119455085

The correlation between increased rents, contraction in supply and huge numbers of LLs leaving the market is an important one. If that trend continues, then rents continue to rise, people can’t save to buy houses etc.

So, making the market more appealing for investors other than the corporate/fund type would seem to be likely to increase supply, or at least slow the exudus.

manniot2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455049#Comment_119455049

yes but many of those jobs can now be done from home so no need to move to Dublin. It might take a few years but there is no reason Dublin won’t be as cheap as the rest of the country in a few years time.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455237#Comment_119455237

Your one or two house landlords do not build. They buy.

drogon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455078#Comment_119455078

This is what I don't get though, people are telling we have acute shortage of supply. But yet in April of this year,

• We had over 35K houses that were empty cause they are waiting to be rented out. Yet there has been barely 1k of homes on average up for rent.
• Close to 17k are empty cause they are waiting to be sold, but yet even today - 4 months later we have about 15k of those up on the market.

The figures don't lie, something doesn't really add up. My gut tells me, by limiting supply they are artificially pushing prices up. It is called the scarcity principal. Honestly time will tell if this is the case, but certainly interesting times ahead !

SummerK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454301#Comment_119454301

People cannot afford to buy because of high prices. Couples on average wages are having a hard time unless they have saved significant deposit. An example- A 3-bed semi in Cork is now around 360k+ and second-hand one's in good condition are well over 320k & then there is bidding war. Can't the local authority introduce more affordable housing where they sell at cost prices or at a marginal profit instead of handing over large sums of money to developers (like the Dublin apartment one's recently)?

I think this would also make some of the second-hand homes available for renting again if they bring some tax relief for landlords. They seem to be not interested in vacant property tax.

Prices went up due to the limited supply + increase in the cost of raw materials (as well as greed) and now that some of the material cost (incl timber) has gone down, do you see house prices going down? I don't think so.

While many people are left with renting, increasing the supply would make people move into these homes thus bringing some of these houses to the rental market. Completely agree that the rental market is important but how would you solve it with a tiny supply of houses?

Look I am not in a mood to argue as I genuinely want this to be fixed, but I don't think FF+FG nor SF genuinely wanting to fix it.