Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510146#Comment_119510146

Rent a room can accept HAP. However most people renting and living in a house are very selective who they let into there house.

Most people renting a room in there house do not want a person with children, they will generally choose other options.

manniot2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119509986#Comment_119509986

I agree. This is entirely possible and is not some Lotto win type of scenario. Plenty of people were just aged appropriately to buy cheap houses in 2012-2015. A lot of people working in professional services and IT did just fine during the grim years, yes bonuses and pay rises were rear but the fall in house prices was so much that it didn’t matter.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511426#Comment_119511426

Yes, but post-2008 output ground to pretty much nothing, but we still had tons of property to sell because there was a massive oversupply in the Tiger years. We had absurd housing output during the tiger, all fueled by endless credit. You had "normal" people owning multiple properties, but all built on credit.

These things do not exist today. Houses are bought before they're built today, and credit is tight.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511361#Comment_119511361

I’m simply referencing rent a room to choose the same figure, but I am talking about regular tenancies.

what I am proposing is that any rental property in receipt of direct government payment eg hap, leasing etc can be rented out in its entirety for 1166 per month tax free. Charge more than that threshold and pay tax at full rate on the entire income.

for example:

you’re a landlord with a three bed in Dublin currently charging 1950 a month to HAP tenants.

SF win the election and announce that they are abolishing rent controls and from now on you can a) set the rent at whatever rate you are happy with and b) if that rent is 1166 a month or less you can keep the lot free of income tax.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511558#Comment_119511558

I don't think the landlord is going to be much better off signing up to keeping rent at HAP levels based on those figures. In fact, possibly worse off, depending on their exact tax liabilities.

From the taxpayers point of view, this significantly increases the cost of HAP right, since it's now tax free?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511628#Comment_119511628

Sorry, not sure I’m reading your post right - are you saying landlord is likely to drop the rent to 1166 a month or keep it at 1950?

manniot2

I see plans have been submitted for the highest building in Dublin on city quay. All office space, who in the name of god to they think will want that office space with everyone WFH. Surely should be ressie

pinksoir

Totally anecdotal, but a friend of my wife's is looking for a house at the moment. He keeps being outbid and has seen the same guy at all the viewings, so reckons they're in the same boat. Gets chatting to him, "how awful it is to be outbid all the time", etc. The guy says, oh that's me. He works for a Chinese investment fund and his mandate is to buy properties regardless of cost.

Obviously could be bullshit, but if not it's fairly depressing and you'd wonder how widespread it could be.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119509908#Comment_119509908

I'm not looking to buy so can only guess. The logic here might be: "At least if there's a property/economic crash I might keep my current salary. That along with a deposit saved is at least some chance of being able to buy. Some chance is better than no chance". I don't blame them. People's lives are being put on hold with this sh!t. Endless limbo year after year. Its not right.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511639#Comment_119511639

Keep it at 1950.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510403#Comment_119510403

That’s assuming the farmer can sell at a profit and pass on input costs. They could get caught out if recession hits and be forced to sell bellow cost especially if they need to bring animals in early due to weather or lack of grass. They won’t be able to feed cattle due to a smaller harvest because they used less fertiliser and be forced to sell at a loss. Can see this unfolding next spring when feed supplies run low.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510700#Comment_119510700

The shop assistant would probably loose his/her job in your scenario…300k people no longer spending would kill a lot of small businesses such as shops/bars/restaurants.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119509474#Comment_119509474

I see that the auctioneer has withdrawn the scheme after getting hammered today (Jesus…..another inadvertent pun)

i quote “I understand... it was naive to think there wouldn’t be a backlash. I decided that I’m withdrawing, I’m not getting involved in that again,”

“I haven’t done it before and won’t be doing it again. There was no offence meant. We hear you. It’s obvious it’s a raw nerve for people and we fully apologise if they took offence.”

if there is one thing that sorry little episode shows it is how those that are running the game have no intuitive understanding of the desperation of those playing it

(also is the typical politician’s “sorry that you’re offended” apology)

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511639#Comment_119511639

They would just up it 2500 a month and there would be a worse crisis than already exists. No landlord would opt for 1166 a month because if rent caps were reintroduced they would be screwed and the chances of that happening would be high once people see the impact of SF policies and vote in a different crowd.

The suggestion doesn’t address the issue which is a lack of supply. In fact it would reduce supply as what your suggesting lowers the yield. And no landlord would buy a house to rent because the return would be less than 3% PA and more importantly the resale value would be frozen as a result

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511896#Comment_119511896

That could happen alright and with the the East if ireland poor grass growth due to hot weather more underfleshed cattle will be killed, but remember the cattle feed lots in Ireland are owned by the meat factories so farmers will sell under fleshed animals instead of spending more inputs fattening them. Under fleshed animals are rife in the factory at the minute, meat yeild well back so the tightening supply may keep prices up.

Mr Hindley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511866#Comment_119511866

I'm feeling naive as I type this, but that can't be true. Can it? I mean - at any cost? How on earth would that be a good approach to investing?

Browney7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512020#Comment_119512020

Whilst not opining on whether it is true or not, the immigrant investor programme (IIP) could be being used for this purpose if the property is leased to a council on long term lease for social housing. A well known property development company in Dublin had been courting investment under the IIP some time ago for new developments but not sure if it's still the case https://best-citizenships.com/2022/07/07/report-on-ireland-immigrant-investor-scheme-2022/

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512020#Comment_119512020

Because they have used the casinos to change the cash and get it out of China and need to store it somewhere. Holding cash in an inflationary period is avoided and housing is a good hedge for inflation… if they can get an Irish passport at the same time due to there investment it is a bonus

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511866#Comment_119511866

Pretty sure I heard that story last year buy it was a woman buying for the Chinese investment funds rather than a man like in your story.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511866#Comment_119511866

Someone posted something similar to this on here about 6 months or so ago. Basically seeing the same chineese woman at every viewing and like that got chatting and lone behold the work for a chineese company that are actively buying property.

manniot2

Lads there are no random Chinese women showing up at houses with unlimited cheque books. Someone has dreamt this up.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510700#Comment_119510700

You wouldn’t be at all concerned about the effect defaulting on our loans? Capital markets will either impose punitive borrowing rates or refuse to lend at all. And credit-rating agencies will no doubt warn against investing in the country. (The NTMA, who borrow from international bond markets on behalf of the Government plans to borrow €14bn this year, to keep the lights on) The IMF would assume control of spending as part of any deal to bail out Ireland again, imposing deep cuts (no house building there) and increased taxation. Does this sound familiar?

What on earth makes you think your life is going to be better in that scenario?

You really should give some more thought before typing baloney like that.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511888#Comment_119511888

Ok fine, a possibility depending on the individuals circumstances, I chose that figure because of the oft quoted 52% effective rate of tax for landlords, which would leave a take home for the landlord of 936euro from 1950. Most landlords paying 52% tax I think would welcome the chance to drop the rent to the threshold and make an extra 2796 euro a year and avoid the hassle of calculating the correct returns etc.

But I think you get the point I am making - by setting a totally tax free threshold, it is possible to work out a level that will ensure the majority of landlords with HAP tenancies/leases etc will opt to reduce the rent to the threshold.

Would you agree with that?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511947#Comment_119511947

We could get into the supply side of this if we were in agreement that the likely impact is that the landlord would drop the rent to 1166 rather than up it to 2500.

But given the gulf in that fundamental difference of opinion seems a bit pointless to argue over it!

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511904#Comment_119511904

In the last recession, Dunnes stores et Al continued to run their business so extremely unlikely that the majority of shop assistants would be let go.

We're a massively indebted country, restructuring our debts and levelling the playing field to a degree should mean many of the bottom 2/3 could afford to buy a house. And why shouldn't they? We've turned into an abhorrent country in the last 7 years and I don't know why.

And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,

That's our Constitution. The current gang representing us have failed miserably to uphold the basic principles of our Constitution imho. We've had, what seemed, a demagogue here promoting a Darwinian society as it benefits that individual and their family. This is not what Ireland is meant to be.

Yeats postulated that some couldn't give a monkeys about anything further than their front door.

What need you, being come to sense, But fumble in a greasy till And add the halfpence to the pence And prayer to shivering prayer, until You have dried the marrow from the bone;

I thought it was ott nonsense but listening to some of the garbage spewed here of late......

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512501#Comment_119512501

A landlord can already lower their tax if he/she structures his property holding . If they can do this and charge what they want why do you think they would opt for 1166. They are there to maximise profit.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512471#Comment_119512471

No because you could never gaurantee that any subsequent government would change the rules and regulations. As well you have forgotten many invest in rentals as part of a pension plan. When you retire you will be on a lower tax rate generally. Will the government then allow you to increase the rent to market rates.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512518#Comment_119512518

If you take the spending of 300k people out of the country it will create job losses in other areas of the economy. If you think that is garbage being spewed then you really don’t have a clue and should stick to your poetry and commenting about our Irish forefathers that proved to be inaccurate as was shown in previous posts.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512372#Comment_119512372

We're not on the same page at all. I'm not a psychiatrist but as advice, maybe read the Brothers Karamazov to stimulate the parts of your mind that perhaps have not been exercised lately.

I've no wish to derail further this thread. Your point that change can be scary for some is taken

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512608#Comment_119512608

Bankrupting a country and plunging us into IMF controlled austerity, again, isn’t “change”, it is ineptitude.