Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Ozark707

PropQueries wrote: »

If rents can double, they can also make similar movements in the opposite direction.

For rents to come down sizeably would require the government to withdraw the amounts (and number of) payments they make through the likes of HAP. I just cannot see any serious attempt being made in this direction, if anything the number of people getting access to these programs is likely to increase going forward. Through Covid we have seen the numbers classified as homeless go down. As you numbers of social housing units coming on stream were affected by the lockdowns it is likely the reduction was due to HAP.

Amadan Dubh

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

More shocking, horrific news on the activities of institutionals in the property sector. This deserves outrage and hysteria in the media. Vampire squids at GS evading tax with some assistance from Dublin based law and accounting teams.

https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/goldman-sachs-irish-property-funds-paid-no-tax-on-390m-income-1.4592273?mode=amp

Outrage? Though there was income of €390m, was it profit?

PropQueries

Ozark707 wrote: »

For rents to come down sizeably would require the government to withdraw the amounts (and number of) payments they make through the likes of HAP. I just cannot see any serious attempt being made in this direction, if anything the number of people getting access to these programs is likely to increase going forward. Through Covid we have seen the numbers classified as homeless go down. As you numbers of social housing units coming on stream were affected by the lockdowns it is likely the reduction was due to HAP.

There's no denying that the government in the words of Micheál Martin, is "The big player in the housing market at the moment is the State."

However, with the two main government revenue streams (corporation and income taxes) potentially under threat from both the global tax reforms and now the WFH in any country, they may have to re-look at their support for the housing market. Especially as the TD Michael McNamara recently compared the governments take on these twin threats to them acting like Comical Ali:

"Prominent backbencher Michael McNamara of Clare has accused members of Government of continuing to tell us that all is okay — just like Comical Ali as the bombs were detonating in the distance... There’s much talk about a €2bn reduction in our tax take, and that this has been foreseen for some time... Another, potentially bigger problem will be the impact on our GDP figure which for several years has been inflated by profits channelled through Ireland for corporation tax reasons.”

But, this apparent housing crisis is also muddied by a FF councilor saying this week in relation to objecting to the re-zoning of a 106 acre site in Finglas: "I just don’t see what the rush is".

So, the question is, do we have a housing crisis or don't we?

When push comes to shove, I've seen many years when the state cuts back on spending both severely and swiftly.

Link to comical ali article in Irish Independent last week here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/higher-taxes-in-other-areas-to-make-up-for-shortfall-in-corporation-tax-green-leader-eamon-ryan-admits-40507583.html

Link to FF councilor remarks in Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/finglas-rezoning-proposal-in-doubt-over-council-opposition-1.4592437

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that SF oppose housing developments mainly on a value for money for the taxpayer basis and mot enough social/affordable or affordable that is too expensive while other parties oppose on the basis of local nimbyism.

Not trying to promote one over another just trying to establish facts as on the late debate last Thursday Ff continually accused SF of opposing many developments

People would want to be fairly stupid to think Sinn Féin’s stance on housing and planning isn’t politically motivated.

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

There's no denying that the government in the words of Micheál Martin, is "The big player in the housing market at the moment is the State."

However, with the two main government revenue streams (corporation and income taxes) potentially under threat from both the global tax reforms and now the WFH in any country, they may have to re-look at their support for the housing market. Especially as the TD Michael McNamara recently compared the governments take on these twin threats to them acting like Comical Ali:

"Prominent backbencher Michael McNamara of Clare has accused members of Government of continuing to tell us that all is okay — just like Comical Ali as the bombs were detonating in the distance... There’s much talk about a €2bn reduction in our tax take, and that this has been foreseen for some time... Another, potentially bigger problem will be the impact on our GDP figure which for several years has been inflated by profits channelled through Ireland for corporation tax reasons.”

But, this apparent housing crisis is also muddied by a FF councilor saying this week in relation to objecting to the re-zoning of a 106 acre site in Finglas: "I just don’t see what the rush is".

So, the question is, do we have a housing crisis or don't we?

When push comes to shove, I've seen many years when the state cuts back on spending both severely and swiftly.

Link to comical ali article in Irish Independent last week here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/higher-taxes-in-other-areas-to-make-up-for-shortfall-in-corporation-tax-green-leader-eamon-ryan-admits-40507583.html

Link to FF councilor remarks in Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/finglas-rezoning-proposal-in-doubt-over-council-opposition-1.4592437

These 2 paragraphs are a microcosm of what this forum has become.

1 FF councillor (not even a TD), acting on behalf of concerned residents, asks what the rush is, and this is now proof that there is no housing crisis.

Amadan Dubh

awec wrote: »

These 2 paragraphs are a microcosm of what this forum has become.

1 FF councillor (not even a TD), acting on behalf of concerned residents, asks what the rush is, and this is now proof that there is no housing crisis.

I read this a few times and don't get it. If there is no rush then it is hardly seen as a crisis. I think people aren't appreciating the words "emergency", "crisis", "extreme" when used in respect of the housing market, thinking they are hyperbolic when to a lot of people they are suitable and appropriate. To others they seem to think the housing situation is a problem but not a devastating, destructive, severe one.

JimmyVik

Hubertj wrote: »

People would want to be fairly stupid to think Sinn Féin’s stance on housing and planning isn’t politically motivated.

They must be sh1tting their pants now because it looks like they will have to come up with a solution themselves at this stage.
And while they are not short on moaning, I dont believe they will be any good at solutions.

Amadan Dubh

Dav010 wrote: »

Outrage? Though there was income of €390m, was it profit?

The three funds incurred no tax charges after recording heavy losses in their accounts due to interest they paid to loan-note holders as part of complex, tax efficient structures designed on behalf of the Goldman-linked entities.

Says it all as apparently they somehow generated heavy losses. Must have been poor investing and they should just sell up to cut their losses.

PropQueries

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

I read this a few times and don't get it. If there is no rush then it is hardly seen as a crisis. I think people aren't appreciating the words "emergency", "crisis", "extreme" when used in respect of the housing market, thinking they are hyperbolic when to a lot of people they are suitable and appropriate. To others they seem to think the housing situation is a problem but not a devastating, destructive, severe one.

That's the thing. It's only when a politician goes off-script that we generally get a true insight into a Government's thinking on a specific issue. To me, this would be some evidence on the real thinking of the Minister for Housing and all the current government parties in relation to this specific issue.

awec

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

I read this a few times and don't get it. If there is no rush then it is hardly seen as a crisis. I think people aren't appreciating the words "emergency", "crisis", "extreme" when used in respect of the housing market, thinking they are hyperbolic when to a lot of people they are suitable and appropriate. To others they seem to think the housing situation is a problem but not a devastating, destructive, severe one.

People are deliberately taking this "no rush" out of context to try make the points they want to make.

It was the same with the DLR one. PropQueries has tried to spin that one at least 3 times now. Because unsustained, over-development in DLR that went against the area development plan was blocked it is proof that there is no housing crisis.

If I apply for permission to build 3 houses in my back garden it'd be refused. Proof again that there's no housing crisis I suppose.

timmyntc

Hubertj wrote: »

People would want to be fairly stupid to think Sinn Féin’s stance on housing and planning isn’t politically motivated.

Every parties stance on housing and planning is by definition politically motivated.

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

That's the thing. It's only when a politician goes off-script that we generally get a true insight into a Government's thinking on a specific issue. To me, this would be some evidence on the real thinking of the Minister for Housing and all the current government parties in relation to this specific issue.

How much does this councillor work with the Minister for Housing do you think?

There are planning concerns raised, and planning requests refused on a daily basis. Does the fact that planning is at times refused, or ammendments sought, proof that there is no housing crisis?

Do you think that we need to just scrap the planning process? Build anything anywhere? Is that what it would take for you to accept that housing is needed?

Ace2007

Balluba wrote: »

Bank of Ireland have announced that their threshold for negative interest rates on savings will be reduced to €1 million with an annual interest rate of 0.65%. In that event a saver with 1 million on deposit will owe €6,500 to BOI annual interest. Negative interest rates are now certain it is just a matter of how low the banks will set the threshold. All of us will be affected.
Surely this will make property even a more attractive investment??

How many people do you know have a million sitting in the bank doing nothing?

Anyone that does, has it there because they don't like risk, so they won't go near stock market, and/or property.

Hubertj

timmyntc wrote: »

Every parties stance on housing and planning is by definition politically motivated.

That’s exactly my point and the problem. Housing policy shouldn’t be politically motivated

Roberto_gas

Ace2007 wrote: »

How many people do you know have a million sitting in the bank doing nothing?

Anyone that does, has it there because they don't like risk, so they won't go near stock market, and/or property.

Seasoned investors waiting for right time to deploy cash ! Nothing to do with risk !

Ace2007

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

I read this a few times and don't get it. If there is no rush then it is hardly seen as a crisis. I think people aren't appreciating the words "emergency", "crisis", "extreme" when used in respect of the housing market, thinking they are hyperbolic when to a lot of people they are suitable and appropriate. To others they seem to think the housing situation is a problem but not a devastating, destructive, severe one.

The way i see it is there are loads of houses available in Finglas and other such areas, but the demand for them doesn't exist - Building more houses in Finglas won't achieve much.

The supply of houses aren't available where large majority of people want to buy - hence pushing the prices up.

Ace2007

Roberto_gas wrote: »

Seasoned investors waiting for right time to deploy cash ! Nothing to do with risk !

But then that's not the crowd who are just going to buy property with it to move it out is it? If they are waiting for the right time - moving it into property is the last thing they'll be doing.

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

How much does this councillor work with the Minister for Housing do you think?

There are planning concerns raised, and planning requests refused on a daily basis. Does the fact that planning is at times refused, or ammendments sought, proof that there is no housing crisis?

Do you think that we need to just scrap the planning process? Build anything anywhere? Is that what it would take for you to accept that housing is needed?

The FF councillor literally said "I just don’t see what the rush is".

There's not so many FF TD's and councillors that they can't keep them all on-script regarding this issue.

Michael Martin said just a few weeks ago that "In terms of the housing situation, be in no doubt that Government regards the housing issue as its number one priority.".

Is it really so hard for FF to keep their few TDs and councillors on-side regarding this script?

Unless, they don't truly believe it is their "number one priority" or don't see it as a crisis in the same way a regular person would define that word.

Balluba

Ace2007 wrote: »

How many people do you know have a million sitting in the bank doing nothing?

Anyone that does, has it there because they don't like risk, so they won't go near stock market, and/or property.

According to the Central Bank household deposits have reached a new record of €128 billion. Do you think that negative interest rates will not change this??

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

The FF councillor literally said "I just don’t see what the rush is".

There's not so many FF TD's and councillors that they can't keep them all on-script regarding this issue.

Michael Martin said just a few weeks ago that "In terms of the housing situation, be in no doubt that Government regards the housing issue as its number one priority.".

Is it really so hard for FF to keep their few TDs and councillors on-side regarding this script?

Unless, they don't truly believe it is their "number one priority" or don't see it as a crisis in the same way a regular person would define that word.

What is this script you are waffling about? Yes, he asked what the rush is. As per usual, you have taken this, mangled it, amplified it about 10000 times and have now decided that this is proof there is no crisis.

Housing is the issue that the government are getting absolutely slated for. If SF get in, it will be on housing. You think that the government are deliberately making up an issue that they are getting hammered on? That's like McDonalds promoting veganism. It's nonsensical. Conspiracy theorist stuff.

Is your belief that all planning processes should be scrapped, as in your mind that is the only logical thing that can happen in a time of housing need? Anything short of this is proof that there is no need for housing?

Hubertj

awec wrote: »

How much does this councillor work with the Minister for Housing do you think?

There are planning concerns raised, and planning requests refused on a daily basis. Does the fact that planning is at times refused, or ammendments sought, proof that there is no housing crisis?

Do you think that we need to just scrap the planning process? Build anything anywhere? Is that what it would take for you to accept that housing is needed?

I think the point is that some people will continue to misrepresent the contents of articles as it suits whatever agenda they have.

Ace2007

Balluba wrote: »

According to the Central Bank household deposits have reached a new record of €128 billion. Do you think that negative interest rates will not change this??

And divide that by number of households in Ireland, and your probably looking on average at 300k, which well below the 1m that you spoke about.

If you think that a large number of those over 65 will have 6 figure savings in the bank - they aren't the clientele that are going to be buying property.

Balluba

Ace2007 wrote: »

And divide that by number of households in Ireland, and your probably looking on average at 300k, which well below the 1m that you spoke about.

If you think that a large number of those over 65 will have 6 figure savings in the bank - they aren't the clientele that are going to be buying property.

We do not know yet how low the threshold will go. It was at 2.5mill, it is coming down to 1mill. The question is how low will it go, and will it impact property investment.

Villa05

Villa05 wrote: »

The surveyor claiming passive 3 bed houses for under 160k was sourcing from Finland

Will link the article later as its fairly detailed on how the cost savings are achieved. His first house was built 40 years ago and is in perfect condition today. Im sure Clare would be good barometer for how it would hold up to Irish weather

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/residential/arid-40305056.html

This didn’t just require thinking outside the box, it required thinking from outside the country. My final design was made in a factory in Finland, then delivered to site complete with windows, doors, insulation, and internal finishes.
The house, which was of exceptional quality was erected within a few days and was ready to occupy in a month — leading to huge savings and ensuring there was money left in the budget. Today the house still runs at near-zero energy consumption and might now be claimed as ‘passive’. My client remains very happy after nearly 40 years.

Amadan Dubh

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

Says it all as apparently what they did generated heavy losses. Must have been poor investing and they should just sell up to cut their losses.

So you are outraged and hysterical because they didn’t pay any tax, on their losses? Selling up and cutting their losses at a time when property prices are still rising seems counterproductive.

Ace2007

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

Says it all as apparently what they did generated heavy losses. Must have been poor investing and they should just sell up to cut their losses.

You have no idea do you? Even just read the sentence that you quoted....

due to interest they paid to loan-note holders as part of complex, tax efficient structures designed on behalf of the Goldman-linked entities.

This could an example of one Goldman entity loaning another x million at an extraordinary high interest rate, the entity that had income of 390m, then offsets the interest against the income, and so that entity pays no tax, but overall Goldman made a profit.

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

What is this script you are waffling about? Yes, he asked what the rush is. As per usual, you have taken this, mangled it, amplified it about 10000 times and have now decided that this is proof there is no crisis.

Housing is the issue that the government are getting absolutely slated for. If SF get in, it will be on housing. You think that the government are deliberately making up an issue that they are getting hammered on? That's like McDonalds promoting veganism. It's nonsensical. Conspiracy theorist stuff.

Is your belief that all planning processes should be scrapped, as in your mind that is the only logical thing that can happen in a time of housing need? Anything short of this is proof that there is no need for housing?

Well, all I know is that on the 14th June 2021, the Irish Times reported on a FF counsellor stating that "I just don’t see what the rush is" is relation to the rezoning of a 106 acre site in Finglas to residential.

And, on the 24th April 2021, it was reported in the Irish Times that the Office of the Planning Regulator sent a letter to DLR county council stating that "the council’s proposal to zone some 22,800 housing units – including part of the Cherrywood strategic development zone – was significantly in excess of housing supply targets calculated in line with guidelines that Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien published in December."

Now, in the last two months, we have the Irish Times reporting on a FF councillor and the Department for Housing acting like there is no housing crisis or at the very least acting like there is no housing supply crisis.

What would a regular person take those two articles as signalling on the Government's current position on the housing crisis?

SmokyMo

Ace2007 wrote: »

And divide that by number of households in Ireland, and your probably looking on average at 300k, which well below the 1m that you spoke about.

If you think that a large number of those over 65 will have 6 figure savings in the bank - they aren't the clientele that are going to be buying property.

Pareto distribution. 80% wealth in the hands of 20%.

PropQueries

As I said before, ECB interest rates may be more influenced by the concerns of the eastern EU euro countries rather than the western members of the euro going forward.

Bloomberg reported today that Hungary and the Czech Republic are seeking to start raising interest rates to combat rising prices:

"Rate Hawks Urge Start of Hikes in East EU to Tame Inflation. In the debate over how dangerous the surge in global inflation may become, two hawkish central banks in the European Union’s eastern wing are preparing to take action. Policy makers in Hungary and the Czech Republic are urging for a liftoff in borrowing costs next week to prevent the jump in commodity prices, supply-chain bottlenecks and other global factors from transforming into inflationary pressures such as demand for higher wages in their own economies."

While these two countries aren't in the euro, from speaking to people from other eastern EU countries that are in the euro, inflation is taking off significantly in many of their countries and people there are getting worried and regular people on the ground are increasingly talking and complaining about it.

ECB interest rates may rise much sooner than many people are predicting with all sorts of consequences for the Irish housing market. Funds are currently accepting c. 3.5% yields on their property investments in Ireland. This may begin to shortly impact on their investment decisions regarding the Irish property market IMO

Link to article in Bloomberg today: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-14/rate-hawks-urge-start-of-hikes-in-eu-s-east-to-tame-inflation

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

Well, all I know is that on the 14th June 2021, the Irish Times reported on a FF counsellor stating that "I just don’t see what the rush is" is relation to the rezoning of a 106 acre site in Finglas to residential.

And, on the 24th April 2021, it was reported in the Irish Times that the Office of the Planning Regulator sent a letter to DLR county council stating that "the council’s proposal to zone some 22,800 housing units – including part of the Cherrywood strategic development zone – was significantly in excess of housing supply targets calculated in line with guidelines that Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien published in December."

Now, in the last two months, we have the Irish Times reporting on a FF councillor and the Department for Housing acting like there is no housing crisis or at the very least acting like there is no housing supply crisis.

What would a regular person take those two articles as signalling on the Government's current position on the housing crisis?

But you know why that letter was sent to DLR, and you know it was not for the reason you wanted. I also am certain that you know this, because it has been explained to you many times on here by people more knowledgeable on the subject than you. For whatever reason this is a merry-go-round you refuse to get off, no matter what you are told.

A FF Councillor asked what the rush is for a single, specific planning application that had raised concerns from local residents. You have taken this and decided it is proof that there is no housing crisis. You have decided that this councillor is now the greatest indicator of the government's position on housing, because he has said something that you can spin to suit your narrative. Absurd.

As I and others have said today, and the numerous other times you've tried to spin that DLR news in the past, this is all a completely normal part of the planning process.

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

But you know why that letter was sent to DLR, and you know it was not for the reason you wanted. I also am certain that you know this, because it has been explained to you many times on here by people more knowledgeable on the subject than you. For whatever reason this is a merry-go-round you refuse to get off, no matter what you are told.

A FF Councillor asked what the rush is for a single, specific planning application that had raised concerns from local residents. You have taken this and decided it is proof that there is no housing crisis. You have decided that this councillor is now the greatest indicator of the government's position on housing, because he has said something that you can spin to suit your narrative. Absurd.

As I and others have said today, and the numerous other times you've tried to spin that DLR news in the past, this is all a completely normal part of the planning process.

A "I just don’t see what the rush is" in relation to a 106 acre site in Finglas in the middle of one of the apparent worst housing crises in the history of the state?

L1011

PropQueries wrote: »

Is it really so hard for FF to keep their few TDs and councillors on-side regarding this script?

Unless, they don't truly believe it is their "number one priority" or don't see it as a crisis in the same way a regular person would define that word.

FF cannot keep a number of their quite small cohort of TDs on-message about anything - McSharry, O Cuiv, O'Callaghan are constant problems with McGuinness often being an issue too

They have absolutely no control over councillors statements.

You are trying to spin a nothing in to a huge conspiracy - again.

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

A "I just don’t see what the rush is" in relation to a 106 acre site in Finglas in the middle of one of the apparent worst housing crises in the history of the state?

Yes, what are you having a hard time understanding?

A FF councillor says this and you believe this is proof that the government's policy on housing is all a big conspiracy. They've been outed by this councillor who must have lost his script.

This is a completely normal part of the planning process. Especially big ones. Local residents complain about it being overbearing / out of character / whatever, councillors speak on behalf of their residents etc etc.

PropQueries

L1011 wrote: »

FF cannot keep a number of their quite small cohort of TDs on-message about anything - McSharry, O Cuiv, O'Callaghan are constant problems with McGuinness often being an issue too

They have absolutely no control over councillors statements.

You are trying to spin a nothing in to a huge conspiracy - again.

Well. there's apparently no "rush" to start building homes in either Finglas or in all of DLR. In which areas is there a "rush" to build these c. 35k new built homes we apparently require each year going forward?

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

Well. there's apparently no "rush" to start building homes in either Finglas or in all of DLR. In which areas is there a "rush" to build these c. 35k new built homes we apparently require each year going forward?

Who said there was no rush to build homes in DLR?

Who said there was no rush to build homes in Finglas?

Ace2007

PropQueries wrote: »

A "I just don’t see what the rush is" in relation to a 106 acre site in Finglas in the middle of one of the apparent worst housing crises in the history of the state?

A SF TD was against new apartments being built in his constituency recently as well - despite all the talk about SF on housing. It's not just from FF.

You also choose to ignore my point about Finglas earlier - as in there are plenty of houses available - and at a guess the demand to live in that part of Dublin isn't happy so supply isn't an issue. The "crisis" is in other parts of the city.

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

Who said there was no rush to build homes in DLR?

Who said there was no rush to build homes in Finglas?

The FF councillor literally said "I just don’t see what the rush is" in relation to the 106 acre site in Finglas.

The Office of the Planning Regulator literally told DRL to scale back on their planned housing targets for between 2022 and 2028 because they were: "significantly in excess of housing supply targets" for the county as "calculated in line with guidelines that Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien".

Link to the "I just don’t see what the rush is" statement: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/finglas-rezoning-proposal-in-doubt-due-to-opposition-of-fianna-f%C3%A1il-councillors-1.4592437

Link to the Department for Housing on DLR: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-rathdown-told-to-scale-back-housing-plans-1.4546039

Graham

PropQueries wrote: »

The FF councillor literally said "I just don’t see what the rush is" in relation to the 106 acre site in Finglas.

Mod Note

You have been warned multiple times about deliberately misrepresenting the articles you link to.

“I not opposed to housing. I want to see housing developed but I just don’t see what the rush is. This is a massive site in a great location but you can’t reverse bad planning,” he said.

Do not reply to this post.

tigger123

PropQueries wrote: »

The FF councillor literally said "I just don’t see what the rush is" in relation to the 106 acre site in Finglas.

The Office of the Planning Regulator literally told DRL to scale back on their planned housing targets for between 2022 and 2028 because they were: "significantly in excess of housing supply targets" for the county as "calculated in line with guidelines that Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien".

Link to the "I just don’t see what the rush is" statement: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/finglas-rezoning-proposal-in-doubt-due-to-opposition-of-fianna-f%C3%A1il-councillors-1.4592437

Link to the Department for Housing on DLR: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-rathdown-told-to-scale-back-housing-plans-1.4546039

If FFG did not believe that we are in the middle of a housing crisis, I really doubt they would allow SF to give them such a kicking in the polls about this issue. They would have formulated some sort of rebuttal at this stage.

Amadan Dubh

Dav010 wrote: »

So you are outraged and hysterical because they didn’t pay any tax, on their losses? Selling up and cutting their losses at a time when property prices are still rising seems counterproductive.

My point about selling up is that, if you truly believed they made massive losses, then you would think they should sell up and try to recoup some of those losses.

The outrage and disgust is at the fact that all of this activity happens tax free. Likely what happens is that the investors provide the finance to an SPV which issues an IOU note to these investors. The SPV then loans money to the investment companies and they then do the activity of mortgage loan buying, development, whatever. However, these companies have to repay their loans to the SPV and the SPV has to return capital to its note holders, which means the investing companies (Belthany DAC etc.) is left with nothing or even losses so can't be taxed. The investors have no doubt structured their own investment in the notes in a manner which also minimises their tax exposure.

Property is bought, developed, sold, rented etc. and the beneficiaries of the transaction didn't make any losses. In fact they did very well. Goldman, the lawyers and accountants take a fee. Everyone is happy. Except the Irish taxpayer and the individuals who are trying to buy and rent their own homes.

Marius34

Just read todays article on Tax and housing.

https://extra.ie/2021/06/14/news/politics/housing-tax-dividing-cabinet

If I understand it right there are a conflict between main parties on coming budget, with FF having slightly left leaning approach to keep higher social welfare, whereas as FG more towards right leaning approach to decrease Income tax:

"The old foes, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, are sharply divided over whether to ‘stick or twist’ when it comes to tax cuts and welfare increases."
"The accelerating tensions publicly emerged courtesy of Leo Varadkar’s intimation that he will be seeking a package of tax cuts for workers in the forthcoming budget."
"Mr Varadkar’s positioning, however, has sparked anger within Fianna Fáil with one senior figure noting: ‘Leo cannot gazump the budget just like that. Our view is that social welfare increases must be prioritised first and then let us see what happens then."

mcsean2163

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It was a combination of issue,people and things that I came accross that gave me an understanding of it.

It was a radio frequency engineer that explained part of it to me. It was to do with the non availability of different frequency . While over a year they might all be the same higher frequency systems( I think around 20gighz systems) are more prone to interference with smaller sized raindrops which we can encounter in Ireland.

It was a lad that puts presertive in stakes explained that we need to put more preservation material in timber in Ireland to achieve a 15+ years lifespan in Ireland. I was asking him why the Swedish presertives did not work in Ireland but did in the UK. He said the moisture in Ireland has smaller droplets.

If you Google water droplet size I think they can vary from O.001mm to O.05mm in size. Rain varirs from 0.5mm to 4mm in size. My understanding is that Ireland has lower droplet and rain size compared to most other countries

Thanks. I worked in RF engineering and am bamboozled by your reference. Yes water attenuates RF signal but never focussed on drop diameter. A new one for me.

I'll have to do some reading...

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1007.2826

Amadan Dubh

Marius34 wrote: »

Just read todays article on Tax and housing.

https://extra.ie/2021/06/14/news/politics/housing-tax-dividing-cabinet

If I understand it right there are a conflict between main parties on coming budget, with FF having slightly left leaning approach to keep higher social welfare, whereas as FG more towards right leaning approach to decrease Income tax:

"The old foes, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, are sharply divided over whether to ‘stick or twist’ when it comes to tax cuts and welfare increases."
"The accelerating tensions publicly emerged courtesy of Leo Varadkar’s intimation that he will be seeking a package of tax cuts for workers in the forthcoming budget."
"Mr Varadkar’s positioning, however, has sparked anger within Fianna Fáil with one senior figure noting: ‘Leo cannot gazump the budget just like that. Our view is that social welfare increases must be prioritised first and then let us see what happens then."

If they can't do anything to make housing cheaper as well as more readily available but try to introduce income tax increases in the next budget, we will be seeing political and social instability up another level. I genuinely feel that the calls for tax increases are being made in ivory towers and bubbles as literally no one I know can stomach them, it would slice off the last few limbs of reluctant support for FG and FF among ordinary workers who don't want SF but aren't happy with their situation, whether it be mortgage holder or renter, childcare paying or childless, working for a higher or lower salary - it shocks me, honestly, to think they might increase income taxes in the current environment.

Marius34

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

If they can't do anything to make housing cheaper as well as more readily available but try to introduce income tax increases in the next budget, we will be seeing political and social instability up another level. I genuinely feel that the calls for tax increases are being made in ivory towers and bubbles as literally no one I know can stomach them, it would slice off the last few limbs of reluctant support for FG and FF among ordinary workers who don't want SF but aren't happy with their situation, whether it be mortgage holder or renter, childcare paying or childless, working for a higher or lower salary - it shocks me, honestly, to think they might increase income taxes in the current environment.

I don't think there were any of proposal for income tax increase from FG or FF. What I understand FF proposal is to keep as is, FG to reduce income tax.

Shedite27

Anyone able to point me in the direction of the largest Estate Agents in the country? Looking o see what % of market share Lisney, Sherry Fitz etc have. Google keeps point me to overall property market reports. Thanks

Ace2007

Shedite27 wrote: »

Anyone able to point me in the direction of the largest Estate Agents in the country? Looking o see what % of market share Lisney, Sherry Fitz etc have. Google keeps point me to overall property market reports. Thanks

Was only chatting about this the other day, what do EA's really do in selling houses nowadays? Majority of houses got to be on myhome.ie or Daft. I get that they would play a role in rentals and that but other than showing people the house they don't do much?

If i'm selling a house why pay Sherry fitz 1.5% if DNG will do for 1%

tigger123

Ace2007 wrote: »

Was only chatting about this the other day, what do EA's really do in selling houses nowadays? Majority of houses got to be on myhome.ie or Daft. I get that they would play a role in rentals and that but other than showing people the house they don't do much?

If i'm selling a house why pay Sherry fitz 1.5% if DNG will do for 1%

I can't help but feel that its an industry that's primed for a disruptor to come in and shake it up.

The fees that they charge versus what they deliver is crazy.

As you say, almost everything is available to view online now.

jill_valentine

tigger123 wrote: »

I can't help but feel that its an industry that's primed for a disruptor to come in and shake it up.

The fees that they charge versus what they deliver is crazy.

As you say, almost everything is available to view online now.

<SNIP> are along these lines.

I did a viewing with them. You provide them with proof of funding when regging your account, book your slot and show up, youngfella with the key checks you're the right person for that slot and lets you in. He knows absolutely nothing about the property, he just stands there while you wander around. I got the impression he was probably a gig worker on par with a Deliveroo driver.

All enquiries and details are via the site, and that's where you bid against other would-be buyers. The actual sale is done via private treaty in the end, but the process feels basically like buying property on ebay.

It was interesting to see work, I don't know what their after sales stuff is like but there's a lot to be said for how convenient it was. All of my queries were answered quickly and I quite liked being left to my own devices to wander around the property.

cnocbui

I'm currently in the process of selling a property directly to someone, off-market, without the involvement of a REA.

I may try selling a second property directly myself also, as I don't believe REAs should be charging by percentage and certainly don't do much for their fee. Same goes for Lawyers, I can't think of any good reson why they should charge by percentage either.

Cyrus

Ace2007 wrote: »

Was only chatting about this the other day, what do EA's really do in selling houses nowadays? Majority of houses got to be on myhome.ie or Daft. I get that they would play a role in rentals and that but other than showing people the house they don't do much?

If i'm selling a house why pay Sherry fitz 1.5% if DNG will do for 1%

thats one way of looking at it, the other side of it is i find it hard to reconcile how much a recruitment agency gets paid for a placement versus with an EA gets for selling a house :pac: