Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395796#Comment_120395796

And there in one post s the reason no word of a tax break for landlords is going to stop all sensible landlords running for the hills as soon as they get their government approved squatter out.

Villa05

A case study in how government policy is ruining housing for median income Joe/Jane.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/i-gave-my-landlord-notice-and-now-in-a-few-weeks-i-could-be-homeless-sale-agreed-homebuyers-told-houses-now-sold-to-single-purchaser-42402071.html

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397052#Comment_120397052

I can only read the first few sentences but i think i get the gist. You couldnt make it up. Ordinary tax payers trying to get on in life and buy a house being screwed over again. Presumably by either the council or a charity. Using those peoples own tax money to screw them.

dontmindme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397052#Comment_120397052

Lazy journalism...they do the story but don't bother their ass finding out more about the vendor or buyer.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397084#Comment_120397084

While it is commendable what the LA is trying to do (assuming it is the LA), they should have done a deal with the builder prior to the development going on sale to the general public, maybe bought off plans. This may have saved the LA money and, in addition, would have prevented the problem of the person having handed in her notice not being able to go through with the purchase.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397052#Comment_120397052

It happened to an apartment block down the road from my mom. It was meant to be sold unit-by-unit, but it's now all rental only.

Those houses were probably bought by the council or by an investor who will rent them back to the council, presumably to house the "most vulnerable".

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397084#Comment_120397084

I'm two minds about the amount I could also read. Vendor should not have been entertaining other buyers, but Sale Agreed is really a due-diligence stage for which things like giving up existing accommodation is asking for trouble.

Villa05

Alot of you are missing the point

Clearly houses can be built at affordable rates plus developer profit, but the various schemes and tax free status for other entities distorts the value of homes. This also creates multiple "middle men" who have to get their profit (I'll bet its more than the builders).

All this interference means a house worth 220 to to 225k gets 100k added to it's value and the people who could purchase yesterday are now priced out and may need government assistance to cover there increasing rents. Rinse and repeat as we know less than a third of new builds make it to sale to the general public.

As the fist responder stated taxes are taken from workers and used to wage a housing war against them and all other taxpayers.

This is a policy that you might expect from an aggressive enemy and lauded as genius, you could not make it up

A company called Greendrive Asset Holdings Limited, with an address in Kilmaine, Co Mayo, is the registered owner of the properties.

Its principal activity is listed as buying and selling real estate.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399042#Comment_120399042

But the price of goods rarely depends exclusively on the cost of manufacturing, and the manufacturers profit.

I don’t know who the company you quoted are, they may be the developers, they may have provided forward financing for the builder/developer. They are selling at market rate, and though it is awful for those who thought they had bought a house, there are huge commercial benefits to selling the entire development to just one buyer.

Im not saying the article isn’t true, but it is hard to believe a tenant gave notice without a purchase contract being signed.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399080#Comment_120399080

If housing and rent affordability is the problem and governments priority. Which of the following would be the better course of action

A. Do fkall

B. Create distortions that increase prices and rents.

C. Create incentives/policies that reduce prices and rents

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399102#Comment_120399102

I would rather they done f'all be better than what they are doing which would be option B by just distorting the market even further and making things worse.

Villa05

Im not saying the article isn’t true, but it is hard to believe a tenant gave notice without a purchase contract being signed

Most people only buy 1 house. It's probably the most stressful process you will go through in life.

Very understandable error

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399102#Comment_120399102

Going back to the post I responded to, when developers build, they will sell for the highest rate the market will pay, not the lowest price after costs and a pre-determined profit margin are reached. That isn’t a distortion, it is economics, businesses want profit. You also must accept that other costs will be involved, if the project is forward financed, the financier will also want a profit, as will any other people/business which plays a part in the development and sale of a house.

Im assuming you want C, so go ahead, put your ideas out there, let’s see how realistic they are.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399191#Comment_120399191

Indeed...if they had done f all up to now I'd wager the situation would be a lot better now

They are either incompetent morons/idealogues or deliberate bad faith actors or some delightful combination of both

Between multiple schemes that add to the purchase price of a home, attacking property rights, populist decisions that reduce supply and retard quangos that just make things worse etc etc (+ I wonder if brown envelopes were involved in funds etc purchasing blocks) these shower are the equivalent of throwing petrol on a smouldering fire

I'm not saying there wouldn't be a problem without them but I honestly believe it wouldn't be as bad or certainly not any worse than if they did nothing.

Then what really gets me is the shower in opposition would do even worse.....whenever I hear Richard Boyd Barrett, Eoin o Broin, Paul Murphy etc etc speaking it fills me with anxiety ..... I sound like my father now but the country is well and truly funked if any of these people get anywhere near a position of influence on policy either.

Mr Hindley

Suppy still showing no signs of the expected spring uptick:

BoxcarWilliam99

Im developing a deep resentment for what I see going on in this country. Any housing in my town is social or taken by one of the factories for it's low paid foreign work force.

There is nothing for me or anyone like me ( young, working, average wage, nothing to show for my taxes, no handouts) in the area while I see others are handed houses ( social) or big business buying up everything else.

And there is nothing I can do about it. No matter how much I save the prices keep increasing or the deals are done behind closed doors.

Dire and must be thousands like me

Mr Hindley

Entirely anecdotal, but I was at a viewing today for a 2 bed house in central Blackrock, SCD - beautifully presented, clever storage, felt surprisingly spacious for its size. But parking v limited and an E2 BER rating.

I was the only person there. Which surprised me. 2-bed houses can be a bit niche, and I know a bad BER rating will understandably put people off, but I was still surprised no-one showed up.

ApeEvolved

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399369#Comment_120399369

You would be mad to pay 575k for that 69m2 box, even if it is in blackrock.

ApeEvolved

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399318#Comment_120399318

You just need to rent. Keep lining someone elses pockets and be quite. Learn to be a good citizen.🤣

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399207#Comment_120399207

My original point

A case study in how government policy is ruining housing for median income Joe/Jane

If those people and taxpayers want affordable non subsidised accommodation that they can own, a government comprising of Ffg will be working against you with your money.

But the price of goods rarely depends exclusively on the cost of manufacturing, and the manufacturers profit

I'm glad that the conversation has moved on from, builders won't build for a loss and the cost of building a house is what a vested interest says it is. We have private developments from a small builder that can be delivered at affordable rates at what I assume is current standards.

This case study shows how the private market can easily solve the housing issue and it shows how government distortions can destroy that solution.

The buyer we assume paid more than the individual buyers, will pay the extra 10% stamp duty. They will sell it onto some other entity at a profit probably a fund or the state. The fund will have to sell or rent out at further profit while the state will probably rip out the existing fixtures and fittings to put in the local authority standard fixtures

Layers and layers of non value add waste and profit pinching at great cost to the taxpayer and economy.

What this case study shows us is the logical, sane low cost solution and the detrimental, damaging, unsustainable, high cost to taxpayer, economy and median joe/jane

It's a simple choice fo you go for the efficient solution or the high cost option that exacerbates the problem

ApeEvolved

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399412#Comment_120399412

If you cant afford to rent, you could just eat one meal a day.....

Maybe skip the odd day.

Young people these days.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399419#Comment_120399419

tin of heinz beans now only 2 euro for 1 tin of beans .. we could all just live on that till we can afford the cheap houses in ireland

Mr Hindley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399404#Comment_120399404

if it wasn’t for the BER and parking, and if I could get it below asking, I’d be tempted - each to their own and I quite liked it! But that’s too long a list of ‘if it wasn’t for…’

By contrast, just been to a viewing in Rathfarnham of a more family friendly house at a lower price point, and the place was mobbed.

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399318#Comment_120399318

Our welfare system is too generous and no one will call it out. Why do you think the State has privatised the provision of housing social tenants? So we as landlords take the risk.

The State should be building property and not competing with the owner occupier or the private rental market.

If you want the State to house you then you take what you are offered. If you don't like it then buy your own.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399525#Comment_120399525

That house is cute but terrible overpriced, not even a garden at the back.

On the other hand, I see way better value on the Southside than on the northside, pricewise.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399592#Comment_120399592

Our welfare system may be generous, but look at the total spend from this department between.

2012 (peak unemployment) to

2022 (peak employment)

The entire employment gains of the decade squandered because of house prices and rents

* Transfers of functions across Departments may impact figures and comparison of expenditure across time.

** Figures for Housing expenditure prior to 2020 is amalgamated into 'Additional Departments'.

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400262#Comment_120400262

In most instances spending on housing by the State in the private sector is half the headline fig (90+ % of private rentals are owned by private landlords) and the majority are on the higher rate of income tax. Govt depts don't net off the tax income associated to their specific spending figs.

Employment gains are negated in some instances by social welfare being worth more to a person than actually working a 40 hr week.

The higher our welfare rates are they become a disincentive to work. Employers need to offer higher wages to get staff which then makes our products and services uncompetitive on the international markets.

Which is why in part rents and house prices have increased. IE our welfare system (HAP etc) affecting the normal functioning of the property sector.

manniot2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400206#Comment_120400206

I notice this too. Places like Drumcondra, Glasnevin and Clontarf seem to be more expensive than the “middle class” areas of the southside. Is this a new phenomenon?

MacronvFrugals

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400605#Comment_120400605

Comparable spots on the southside with close proximity to the city and some buzz say D6 would be decent bit more expensive than Glasnevin/Drumcondra. However, they probably are a little pricier than the likes of Dundrum/Rathfarnam but rightly so imo especially with Rathfarnam its a bit soulless.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400605#Comment_120400605

Not sure what it is.... I agree with you. On the northside you have run down houses at a higher price than on the southside where they are in good decent shape inside.