Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Villa05

Mad_maxx wrote:

the alternative government ( SF ) fully back mortgage defaulters and rogue tenants remaining on in properties

I don't think that's true

Rogue tennants usually = rogue neighbours. Supporting rogue neighbours does not equal populist vote

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Factory not too far away that has an automated production system require unskilled operatives. Pay is a bit with 800/ week nearly 45k/ year. Also included is health insurance Christmas bonus( about 709-1k, first 500 is tax free), pension scheme and decent working conditions.

Where in Ireland is a factory hiring unskilled workers on 45k a year?

taxdummy

I viewed a property recently which needs a LOT of work, which even the EA acknowledged, and to be honest I don't think anyone would be willing to pay the asking price or near it (could be wrong), but a similar house in great condition (in comparison), went for a similar asking price a few months ago. To give an idea - I reckon that house that I viewed would need min 125k+ of work to get it to the similar house that sold. There is issues with roof, and all round it's a shell of a house it once was, that has potential. The house is currently vacant, and went sale agreed a few years ago that fell through (I have no idea why). The EA told me at the time there was no offer on the property.

My question is, does the estate agent have to register/tell the sellers/tell other buyers of all bids that are made? If for instance I was to make a very low ball offer - say 50%/60% of the asking price?

If you tell other potential buyers that the current offer is at half the asking price - it's highly unlikely to get to the offering price (especially for this house).

Bass Reeves

Villa05 wrote: »

Out of interest, does that factory produce products that have inflation similar to housing

I have not heard anyone saying houses are not being built because of low wages in the sector.

With regard to labour availability. If we were serious about fixing things we could look at other sectors

Fruit pickers from Bulgaria during the height of a pandemic and travel ban.

Nurses from the Philippines

Food processing from Brazil

Roads maintenance from Eastern Europe


This of course after we look at why 10,000 construction sector workers are on PUP up to very recently

Where there is the will, there is a way

Shortage of construction workers right across Europe. There is a reluctance to allow non EU nationals into the area. Many trades have certification so not that easy to get non EU workers I to these area"s. Employers are responsible for the H&S if there employees so not have English it's up to the employer to make sure they understand safety regs

I am surprised but 10 k construction workers on PUP. I know no construction worker that is unemployed. I do know that some trader tradespeople who while still working were allowed to collect PUP if there businesses were effected by lockdowns. Some of these may.not have signed off.

Bass Reeves

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where in Ireland is a factory hiring unskilled workers on 45k a year?

Find me ones that are not paying near enough that. Most factory work is paying 800/ week minimum especially if some sort of shift work is involved.

I am in the Midwest and that is the rate in most factories

Cyrus

Villa05 wrote: »

For Ireland, I'd go Dutch you have affordable options for people who want a home and for the people who want to play monopoly, off you go at your own risk.

Open to correction but I didn't hear of any bailouts required in that nation in 08

I'm Ireland you also have affordable options, loads of them, they just aren't in the main cities.

Is there a main Dutch city that is different?

And the Dutch had a large bailout too

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Find me ones that are not paying near enough that. Most factory work is paying 800/ week minimum especially if some sort of shift work is involved.

I am in the Midwest and that is the rate in most factories

I think you live in parallel reality.
12.50 per hour is most common pay at factory work,the most go trough the agencies which take the difference.
Nobody does not pay 800 per week minimum.The best I can get as skilled carpenter 17.50 per hour before tax for SLAVERY work or around 650 per week plus FLAT rate overtime.And to get that I have travel 100km per day.
I am on North East.
My money in Multinational mechanical enginering company after 2 years in service are 13.50 per hour
The reason I am there the job is a lot easier than on site and I could do extra doing carpentry because I dont have travel to work
I will not back on site even for 1000 per week !
Because main job on sites are trough the agencies and I will be thrown on street without any redundancies or any other job once project will be ended or recession will come
I have more secured job than on site and my average earnings are higher than 6 months on site and 6 months on doll waiting for agency call !
All builders been thrown thrown from the sites during the Covid and found job elsewhere.The agencies and regulation creating builders shortage on sites not the supply from Eastern Europe
I know some builders who found another jobs during Covid and never will back on sites same as me for same reasons.
If government want have builders they must make companies hire directly not trough the agencies because most agencies treat people like dogs !

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Find me ones that are not paying near enough that. Most factory work is paying 800/ week minimum especially if some sort of shift work is involved.

I am in the Midwest and that is the rate in most factories

Go on, even just one example of 45k per year for unskilled workers in a factory?

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

Out of interest, does that factory produce products that have inflation similar to housing

I have not heard anyone saying houses are not being built because of low wages in the sector.

With regard to labour availability. If we were serious about fixing things we could look at other sectors

Fruit pickers from Bulgaria during the height of a pandemic and travel ban.

Nurses from the Philippines

Food processing from Brazil

Roads maintenance from Eastern Europe


This of course after we look at why 10,000 construction sector workers are on PUP up to very recently

Where there is the will, there is a way

there I is a shortage of skilled construction workers in Europe. And if immigration increases where will they live?
Where there’s a will there’s a way. What’s the way?

The whole system in Ireland is corrupted and full of mess !
The big companies trough the lobbies creating pressure on government
Give Us Cheap Slaves ! We need Work Force !
OK says government,here we are,getting it
Companies finished projects,made money and throw people on streets
And then government must pay those Eastern Europe workers social welfare,HAPs,build social housing houses paying for it by Ireland tax payers money !
The big company eat the fish and government has wash the dish !?
Nice,Is not ?

Moneylender to write off borrowings of all its Irish customers as it leaves market

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/moneylender-to-write-off-borrowings-of-all-its-irish-customers-as-it-leaves-market-40596344.html

Nice on one side but who will come to lend money and what will happen when people will not get money to pay bills ?

Rent increases to be capped at inflation in pressure zones

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/rent-increases-to-be-capped-at-inflation-in-pressure-zones-1.4608191

Nice too but as Sherry Fitzerald analyst said on Newstalk number of weeks ago :

We have shortage of property for rent because landlords selling property leaving the market


Things getting worst week after week and this will hit property market heavily.

Revolution 1917

Revolution 1917 wrote: »

Moneylender to write off borrowings of all its Irish customers as it leaves market

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/moneylender-to-write-off-borrowings-of-all-its-irish-customers-as-it-leaves-market-40596344.html

Nice on one side but who will come to lend money and what will happen when people will not get money to pay bills?

I think you're stretching it, if you're implying that people who rely on money lenders, or the money lender leaving, are going to have an impact on the property market.


Besides, most Credit Unions have loan products now aimed at those who are low earners or who just need small amounts to get by, as they were trying to move in on the money lender market.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you're stretching it, if you're implying that people who rely on money lenders, or the money lender leaving, are going to have an impact on the property market.


Besides, most Credit Unions have loan products now aimed at those who are low earners or who just need small amounts to get by, as they were trying to move in on the money lender market.

Unfortunately Credit unions getting them money back a lot quicker than Provident and similar.
Also Credit unions does not lend money to same class of people who Provident was lending.
That mean the households bills and banks repayments bills will be more affected.

Darc19

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rent increases to be capped at inflation in pressure zones

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/rent-increases-to-be-capped-at-inflation-in-pressure-zones-1.4608191

Nice too but as Sherry Fitzerald analyst said on Newstalk number of weeks ago :

We have shortage of property for rent because landlords selling property leaving the market


Things getting worst week after week and this will hit property market heavily.

Never ever ever ever believe sh1te from estate agents.

Landlords are not leaving the market.

Accidental landlords are finally able to clear their mortgage and they are selling up, but they are not real landlords.

Plenty of new investors out there. Most are purchasing for pension funds - anything from single properties to multiples

I've yet in 30 years of buying and selling to see an estate agent statement to come true. They trade on bullsh1t.

Darc19

Darc19 wrote: »

Never ever ever ever believe sh1te from estate agents.

Landlords are not leaving the market.

They trade on bullsh1t.

Not the only ones apparently.

A quick google will confirm for you that significant numbers of landlords have left the sector over the past few years, that information comes from the RTB, not EAs.

Ace2007

Darc19 wrote: »

Never ever ever ever believe sh1te from estate agents.

Landlords are not leaving the market.

Accidental landlords are finally able to clear their mortgage and they are selling up, but they are not real landlords.

Plenty of new investors out there. Most are purchasing for pension funds - anything from single properties to multiples

I've yet in 30 years of buying and selling to see an estate agent statement to come true. They trade on bullsh1t.

Na i agree with others, landlords are definitely leaving the market in their droves and why wouldn't they - houses are going through the roof price wise, regulations are coming in that are meaning more cost for landlords and less ability to raise rent, and then you have them competing against institutional investors who get the tax breaks. Why have all that hassle, when you can get a good deal? No brainer really.

Timing belt

Villa05 wrote: »

For Ireland, I'd go Dutch you have affordable options for people who want a home and for the people who want to play monopoly, off you go at your own risk.

Open to correction but I didn't hear of any bailouts required in that nation in 08

“If you look at how many young people have to stay at home and the number of people over 25 who are still living with roommates because they have no other choice, then these are all signals that more houses need to be built”,

Above quote is not about Ireland but the Netherlands the housing model you think is better than Ireland.

Source: https://nltimes.nl/2021/06/06/housing-shortage-reason-steep-house-prices-economists-claim

You blame government for everything and SF will fix it all...yet governments in nearly every developed country in the western world is experiencing similar issues that they are struggling to fix.

As for your post on pensions in other EU countries being better funded it might be worth while remembering that they are the ones buying all the Irish property and if a bubble does exist as you claim and it goes pop so does the pensions...just something to consider

Bey0nd

Saw this house come up on daft - https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-5-waverly-view-greystones-co-wicklow/3191552

Nice house and lovely area by all accounts, but I can see this sold as a new build for €500k less than 2 years ago. Is a €135k increase in less than 2 years really where we're at now?

Amadan Dubh

Timing belt wrote: »

“If you look at how many young people have to stay at home and the number of people over 25 who are still living with roommates because they have no other choice, then these are all signals that more houses need to be built”,

Above quote is not about Ireland but the Netherlands the housing model you think is better than Ireland.

Source: https://nltimes.nl/2021/06/06/housing-shortage-reason-steep-house-prices-economists-claim

You blame government for everything and SF will fix it all...yet governments in nearly every developed country in the western world is experiencing similar issues that they are struggling to fix.

As for your post on pensions in other EU countries being better funded it might be worth while remembering that they are the ones buying all the Irish property and if a bubble does exist as you claim and it goes pop so does the pensions...just something to consider

I wouldn't be too worried about pension funds, especially those in other countries. Firstly, property is a risky investment so these pension funds know what they're getting into. Secondly, the trade off for their returns is the struggle of the individual who is paying for their returns. While perhaps the property fund suspensions last year, pre-covid were a canary in the coal one, I think seeing a pension fund go tits up will trigger market uncertainty and pull back. Probably more than what FF, FG and SF can do combined!

Bey0nd

Bey0nd wrote: »

Saw this house come up on daft - https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-5-waverly-view-greystones-co-wicklow/3191552

Nice house and lovely area by all accounts, but I can see this sold as a new build for €500k less than 2 years ago. Is a €135k increase in less than 2 years really where we're at now?

Great for the people selling it, if they get that price.

Underground

Taoiseach as recently as May: “Let that message go out loud and clear from government. No local authority should be on the other side of this, engaging in a long lease with these institutional investors”

https://twitter.com/killianwoods/status/1411607684881731585?s=19

Villa05

Timing belt wrote:

You blame government for everything and SF will fix it all...yet governments in nearly every developed country in the western world is experiencing similar issues that they are struggling to fix.

I have explained on numerous occasions with numerous reasons why gov are predominantly at fault. You might explain which reasons you disagree with

I don't agree that SF will fix it all, quiet the contrary. The day of Reckoning will come before they have a chance of doing any thing

Timing belt wrote:

As for your post on pensions in other EU countries being better funded it might be worth while remembering that they are the ones buying all the Irish property and if a bubble does exist as you claim and it goes pop so does the pensions...just something to consider

I have considered it that's why I suggested building our own and charge affordable rent that generates a small profit for the state rather than having our children being pension monkeys for other states and wasting billions on housing payments

Start with student accomodation. Having free college fees and then allowing private funds to milk more out of the students/parents because the fees are low/free

It akin to a farmer tendering to their crops and then allow a stranger come in and take the harvest and sell it tax free

It can't be just me that considers our housing policies to be incredibly dumb


Hadnt realised the Dutch system had gone a bit pear shaped, but reassuring to see the response appears to be supply, supply, supply in the most densely populated European country

tigger123

Underground wrote: »

Taoiseach as recently as May: “Let that message go out loud and clear from government. No local authority should be on the other side of this, engaging in a long lease with these institutional investors”

https://twitter.com/killianwoods/status/1411607684881731585?s=19

The article is behind a paywall. But is it basically saying that the introduction of the 10 percent stamp duty isn't doing what it's supposed to? IE, discourage foreign investment in Irish property?

John1648

Would you say buying a two bedroom apt in Ballymun, Charter building, for 200 k cash, currently let for 1450 EUR to a young single mother on HAP, is a cool, profitable and sound idea?

hometruths

John1648 wrote: »

Would you say buying a two bedroom apt in Ballymun, Charter building, for 200 k cash, currently let for 1450 EUR to a young single mother on HAP, is a cool, profitable and sound idea?

HAP is now hip.

Villa05

tigger123 wrote:

The article is behind a paywall. But is it basically saying that the introduction of the 10 percent stamp duty isn't doing what it's supposed to? IE, discourage foreign investment in Irish property?

It's worse than that, it's saying that investment funds that lease back to the state will be exempt from the stamp duty changes. In the incident that sparked the change the state was the underbidder. You couldn't make this stuff up for a Monty phyton movie

Fair play to Killian Woods, he's doing the state some service

Elessar

Underground wrote: »

Taoiseach as recently as May: “Let that message go out loud and clear from government. No local authority should be on the other side of this, engaging in a long lease with these institutional investors”

https://twitter.com/killianwoods/status/1411607684881731585?s=19

This is absolutely f*cking INFURIATING :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The very f*cking reason this was introduced was to stop bulk buying where they would then be leased to the council or housing bodies for social housing. Now they've done a 180 on it. Taoiseach lied through his teeth. Entire estates will now continue to be bought by REITs for a nice guaranteed long term payday.

Investment funds must be flocking to this country to suck the property market dry with these government guaranteed returns.

Who will challenge this in the Dail? Nobody I bet because muh 'social housing'.

Meanwhile people who get up and work everyday to try and afford a house are pushed off the cliff, and the governments response was complete show for the media.

As a 30-something I am seriously considering emigrating. The housing crisis and the pandemic response have shown that government don't give two f*cks about me.

tigger123

tigger123 wrote: »

The article is behind a paywall. But is it basically saying that the introduction of the 10 percent stamp duty isn't doing what it's supposed to? IE, discourage foreign investment in Irish property?

Just in relation to articles behind paywalls, copy and paste article into outline.com and you will be able to read it. The article linked is not up yet, but it probably will be later today.

Elessar

Elessar wrote: »

As a 30-something I am seriously considering emigrating. The housing crisis and the pandemic response have shown that government don't give two f*cks about me.

There is nothing new about people having to migrate/emigrate in search of work/housing.

enricoh

Dav010 wrote: »

There is nothing new about people having to migrate/emigrate in search of work/housing.

There has to be something new about the brightest young people in the country are the ones putting their name down on the social housing list!
Go to college, get a stressful job and save your deposit is for suckers in this country! Hopefully enough suckers stick around to pay for the foreva homes!

Amadan Dubh

Dav010 wrote: »

There is nothing new about people having to migrate/emigrate in search of work/housing.

We are also thinking longer term of not staying in Ireland, solely down to housing. I don't think two well paid professionals like us should be considering emigrating because of housing and we are the exact demographic who should be buying into the system, like with the other poster.

tigger123

Dav010 wrote: »

There is nothing new about people having to migrate/emigrate in search of work/housing.

You're right, there is nothing new in it. But generally it was done during times of recession and hardship.

The pre covid economy was in great shape, thanks mainly to FG. But what they forgot to address is housing.

The social contract is broken, and it will be remedied one way or another.

Mad_maxx

Elessar wrote: »

This is absolutely f*cking INFURIATING :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The very f*cking reason this was introduced was to stop bulk buying where they would then be leased to the council or housing bodies for social housing. Now they've done a 180 on it. Taoiseach lied through his teeth. Entire estates will now continue to be bought by REITs for a nice guaranteed long term payday.

Investment funds must be flocking to this country to suck the property market dry with these government guaranteed returns.

Who will challenge this in the Dail? Nobody I bet because muh 'social housing'.

Meanwhile people who get up and work everyday to try and afford a house are pushed off the cliff, and the governments response was complete show for the media.

As a 30-something I am seriously considering emigrating. The housing crisis and the pandemic response have shown that government don't give two f*cks about me.

Ireland is becoming no place for young people who believe in washing their own face

Villa05

tigger123 wrote:

The pre covid economy was in great shape, thanks mainly to FG. But what they forgot to address is housing.

The state of the economy pre covid was down to the Irish people, very little to do with FG. The one positive was the wild Atlantic way which was really delivered through Bord Failte

tigger123

Villa05 wrote: »

The state of the economy pre covid was down to the Irish people, very little to do with FG. The one positive was the wild Atlantic way which was really delivered through Bord Failte

I'm not a fan of FG, by any stretch of the imagination, but they took over in 2011 and guided the economy back to where it was. You can't dispute that.

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

The state of the economy pre covid was down to the Irish people, very little to do with FG. The one positive was the wild Atlantic way which was really delivered through Bord Failte

This is a truly truly ridiculous statement. You Seriously need to cop on.

Mad_maxx

Villa05 wrote: »

The state of the economy pre covid was down to the Irish people, very little to do with FG. The one positive was the wild Atlantic way which was really delivered through Bord Failte

by that arguement you could say the awful state of the Venezuelean economy is down to the people ?

I dont think its the fault of the Venezuelean people , do you ?

government are neither entirely responsible or entirely credit free for economic results

cnocbui

Elessar wrote: »

This is absolutely f*cking INFURIATING :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The very f*cking reason this was introduced was to stop bulk buying where they would then be leased to the council or housing bodies for social housing. Now they've done a 180 on it. Taoiseach lied through his teeth. Entire estates will now continue to be bought by REITs for a nice guaranteed long term payday.

Investment funds must be flocking to this country to suck the property market dry with these government guaranteed returns.

Who will challenge this in the Dail? Nobody I bet because muh 'social housing'.

Meanwhile people who get up and work everyday to try and afford a house are pushed off the cliff, and the governments response was complete show for the media.

As a 30-something I am seriously considering emigrating. The housing crisis and the pandemic response have shown that government don't give two f*cks about me.

Me, my ex and our two adult children all want to emigrate and get out of this country because it so badly run.

Villa05

Villa05 wrote: »

The state of the economy pre covid was down to the Irish people, very little to do with FG. The one positive was the wild Atlantic way which was really delivered through Bord Failte

So, no credit for the astonishing recovery in Ireland which led to full employment, but the governing parties get lynched because you can’t buy a house where you want?

cnocbui

Villa05 wrote: »

The state of the economy pre covid was down to the Irish people, very little to do with FG. The one positive was the wild Atlantic way which was really delivered through Bord Failte

And here was me thinking it was due to the craven government giving into EU bullying and following a plan dictated to them so as to avoid financial loses in Germany and the UK, by getting the Irish population to underwrite the borrowings of crooked banks, property developers and speculators.

cnocbui

Dav010 wrote: »

So, no credit for the astonishing recovery in Ireland which led to full employment, but the governing parties get lynched because you can’t buy a house where you want?

What was astonishing? Which countries didn't recover from the GFC? Just air rushing in to fill a vacuum. Belgium had a few years where they proved a country doesn't even need a government.

MacronvFrugals

Mario Draghi saying “We’ll do whatever it takes” did more than FG ever did.

It also helped at the time having one of the most efficient tax haven structures on earth.

We went from Nama wanting to bulldoze gafs is 2011 to 4000 kids in hotels missing key development indicators

taxdummy

Elessar wrote: »

This is absolutely f*cking INFURIATING :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The very f*cking reason this was introduced was to stop bulk buying where they would then be leased to the council or housing bodies for social housing. Now they've done a 180 on it. Taoiseach lied through his teeth. Entire estates will now continue to be bought by REITs for a nice guaranteed long term payday.

Investment funds must be flocking to this country to suck the property market dry with these government guaranteed returns.

Who will challenge this in the Dail? Nobody I bet because muh 'social housing'.

Meanwhile people who get up and work everyday to try and afford a house are pushed off the cliff, and the governments response was complete show for the media.

As a 30-something I am seriously considering emigrating. The housing crisis and the pandemic response have shown that government don't give two f*cks about me.

Why is no opposition party flagging these exceptions and amendments when they are being made/voted on - I just don't get it - no doubt they will jump on attacking government but what else is getting through and not being flagged.

wowy

Bey0nd wrote: »

Saw this house come up on daft - https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-5-waverly-view-greystones-co-wicklow/3191552

Nice house and lovely area by all accounts, but I can see this sold as a new build for €500k less than 2 years ago. Is a €135k increase in less than 2 years really where we're at now?

If it was sold as a new build 2 years ago the PPR record will be ex-Vat.

bungalow

SMdPP87 wrote: »

What part of the country are you looking at?

Fingal... couple of 3 beds dropped in price recently. Had our own sold at 338, sale fell through and ended up getting 300 for it.

Bey0nd

wowy wrote: »

If it was sold as a new build 2 years ago the PPR record will be ex-Vat.

I know.

It sold for €500k once you include VAT.

yosser hughes

Dav010 wrote: »

So, no credit for the astonishing recovery in Ireland which led to full employment, but the governing parties get lynched because you can’t buy a house where you want?

Astonishing recovery is down to QE. Our debt has ballooned in that time.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Ireland is becoming no place for young people who believe in washing their own face

Quickly becoming? It has long been like that. People are just becoming more aware of it now. Private buyers have been bidding against councils for private housing for years, to house those who wont get up and do it themselves.

ibarelycare

John1648 wrote: »

Would you say buying a two bedroom apt in Ballymun, Charter building, for 200 k cash, currently let for 1450 EUR to a young single mother on HAP, is a cool, profitable and sound idea?

Does anyone else keep getting unsolicited PMs from this user looking for advice on buying to rent? Or is it just me?

John1648

ibarelycare wrote: »

Does anyone else keep getting unsolicited PMs from this user looking for advice on buying to rent? Or is it just me?[/quote

Actually I have sent to more, indeed. Any kind advice would much appreciated.

As to "unsolicited", that is how it goes on a public forum. Just ignore my question if you prefer. People also make "unsolicited" comments too.

Would you have anything to say about the question I have asked? If not, fine too, no hurt feelings