Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Mad_maxx

ibarelycare wrote: »

Does anyone else keep getting unsolicited PMs from this user looking for advice on buying to rent? Or is it just me?

its not just you

Amadan Dubh

yosser hughes wrote: »

Astonishing recovery is down to QE. Our debt has ballooned in that time.

I'd give the government more credit, they also set out a red carpet tax avoidance regime for foreign capital to enter the jurisdiction!

I also am hesitant to call the last 10 years a recovery as I feel the mistakes of the 00s have not been corrected. It is not outrageous we could lose a lot of the economic growth of the last two decades as I'm not sure you can call hyper-QE sustainable or a reliable way to run the economy for such a prolonged period. It really is a precarious path forward from where we are now.

L1011

John1648 wrote: »

Actually I have sent to more, indeed. Any kind advice would much appreciated.

As to "unsolicited", that is how it goes on a public forum. Just ignore my question if you prefer. People also make "unsolicited" comments too.

Would you have anything to say about the question I have asked? If not, fine too, no hurt feelings

Pick one of your threads you've posted about specific locations and use it - only it, not this thread too - to continue posting about others in

taxdummy

I have a question that hope can be answered, without going into the specifics as to why, is it possible for a spouse to get a mortgage and buy a house (stating up front that it may not be their PPR) and have it in their own name, if the couple don't currently own any other property?
I understand that as a buy to let they need 20% deposit which is no problem, it's just the mortgage in one name that is the main issue - can the other spouse sign letter to state they have no interest in the house?

Hubertj

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

If give the government more credit, they also set out a red carpet tax avoidance regime for foreign capital to enter the jurisdiction!

I also am hesitant to call the last 10 years a recovery as I feel the mistakes of the 00s have not been corrected. It is not outrageous we could lose a lot of the economic growth of the last two decades as I'm not sure you can call hyper-QE sustainable or a reliable way to run the economy for such a prolonged period. It really is a precarious path forward from where we are now.

The Troika left too early. Reform of the public sector and unhealthy relationships with trade unions were not addressed. Hopefully, that will be fixed when they come back in a few years.
Without wholesale reform in how public services are delivered this country won’t change. Which government will take that on? I don’t see any viable options.

Mad_maxx

Hubertj wrote: »

The Troika left too early. Reform of the public sector and unhealthy relationships with trade unions were not addressed. Hopefully, that will be fixed when they come back in a few years.
Without wholesale reform in how public services are delivered this country won’t change. Which government will take that on? I don’t see any viable options.

Dream on ,this country is going full on socialist over the next decade and more

PommieBast

Hubertj wrote: »

The Troika left too early. Reform of the public sector and unhealthy relationships with trade unions were not addressed. Hopefully, that will be fixed when they come back in a few years.
Without wholesale reform in how public services are delivered this country won’t change. Which government will take that on? I don’t see any viable options.

They should have forced Ireland to overhaul how it does property sales. I am not convinced that the current blind-auction system is anything other than a crooks' charter that has helped reinflate Dublin's property bubble.

I think this country gona be on knees in next year or two with nose down to the ground and black smoke from exhaust.

We had similar demand supply situation in my country during last and this year
The property prices were up double digits and Central Bank was warning about overheating
Same inflation songs as in Ireland all one to one except foreign investment on private property market
The last week all building companies declared sales down when usually summer are the hottest time for sales
The emigration counter started work negative way .
The only matter of time when this will happen in Ireland.

At the moment government of Ireland started work on youth unemployment giving money to employers.But this will not help keep youngsters from emigration because housing crisis .

Any way nobody speak about it but it's doesn't mean bad days didn't started already.

PommieBast

PommieBast wrote: »

They should have forced Ireland to overhaul how it does property sales. I am not convinced that the current blind-auction system is anything other than a crooks' charter that has helped reinflate Dublin's property bubble.

This is the way private enterprise works. How would the troike dictate to a private builder, or a property owner the terms on which they sell a house? The CB quite rightly limits the amount which can be borrowed, but you cannot limit how much a cash buyer pays for property.

taxdummy

taxdummy wrote: »

I understand that as a buy to let they need 20% deposit

30% deposit.

Ace2007

PommieBast wrote: »

They should have forced Ireland to overhaul how it does property sales. I am not convinced that the current blind-auction system is anything other than a crooks' charter that has helped reinflate Dublin's property bubble.

There should be some sort of portal that anyone who puts a bid on can see what bids have been made etc - all bids have to be shown, and if a bid is not shown, the EA gets a fine from a regulator.

You pay €500 for a unique ID, and then have a rule that you can only bid of max 3 houses at a time - this stops people bidding on numerous houses "to keep their options open" - which really inflates prices etc. You read posters on here openly saying they are bidding on more than one at a time.

PommieBast

Dav010 wrote: »

This is the way private enterprise works. How would the troike dictate to a private builder, or a property owner the terms on which they sell a house? The CB quite rightly limits the amount which can be borrowed, but you cannot limit how much a cash buyer pays for property.

They could mandate the auctions being open by making it a condition of EA accreditation. I would also have forced through a few other things like making land registration a legal requirement for existing owner rather than waiting for a sale to come along.

Amadan Dubh

Hubertj wrote: »

The Troika left too early. Reform of the public sector and unhealthy relationships with trade unions were not addressed. Hopefully, that will be fixed when they come back in a few years.
Without wholesale reform in how public services are delivered this country won’t change. Which government will take that on? I don’t see any viable options.

There are no viable options, unfortunately. Probably FG getting a majority by itself would be the best outcome tbh so they wouldn't have to throw so many scraps to the populists. But I'm not saying that FG would be great, just the best of a bad bunch if they got the full majority.

In reality, the trends are pointing to the leftie loopies in power, if not after the next election, than almost certainly the one after. The trends are away from FF and FG among the ever growing younger demographics.

PommieBast

PommieBast wrote: »

They could mandate the auctions being open by making it a condition of EA accreditation. I would also have forced through a few other things like making land registration a legal requirement for existing owner rather than waiting for a sale to come along.

Currently auction sales tend to be confined to sales by Receivers, hardly indicative of the market overall. Having bought at auction, I’m not sure what difference EA accreditation adds to the process, the property is listed and bidders bid, what more is needed?

In relation to land registration, is that really an issue? The buyers solicitor checks the bone fides of the purchase, personally, I would prefer that to check that myself as a buyer rather than be handed it by the seller. But that’s just me.

Ace2007

Ace2007 wrote: »

There should be some sort of portal that anyone who puts a bid on can see what bids have been made etc - all bids have to be shown, and if a bid is not shown, the EA gets a fine from a regulator.

You pay €500 for a unique ID, and then have a rule that you can only bid of max 3 houses at a time - this stops people bidding on numerous houses "to keep their options open" - which really inflates prices etc. You read posters on here openly saying they are bidding on more than one at a time.

Why would a buyer be confined in an open market?

PommieBast

Dav010 wrote: »

Currently auction sales tend to be confined to sales by Receivers, hardly indicative of the market overall. Having bought at auction, I’m not sure what difference EA accreditation adds to the process, the property is listed and bidders bid, what more is needed?

Maybe it was (bad)luck of the places I had interest in, but all the supposed "estate agents" I have dealt with were in reality auctioneers.

In relation to land registration, is that really an issue? The buyers solicitor checks the bone fides of the purchase, personally, I would prefer that to check that myself as a buyer rather than be handed it by the seller. But that’s just me.

All I can say is that had my first Irish sale-agreed been conducted under UK law, the EA would have been liable for multiple counts of dishonesty. A major disfunction of the Irish property market is how much money is wasted in professional fees just checking basic questons such as "is free freehold".

PommieBast

PommieBast wrote: »

Maybe it was (bad)luck of the places I had interest in, but all the supposed "estate agents" I have dealt with were in reality auctioneers.



All I can say is that had my first Irish sale-agreed been conducted under UK law, the EA would have been liable for multiple counts of dishonesty. A major disfunction of the Irish property market is how much money is wasted in professional fees just checking basic questons such as "is free freehold".

What have you found to be the difference between an Estate Agent and an Auctioneer?

Again, why would you take the seller’s word on something as important as the searches solicitors conduct on behalf of the buyer? The cost of the searches is minuscule in proportion to the value of the property you are buying.

In relation to the description given by the EA, you have the benefit of legal advice and your own surveyor before you buy, if you are not satisfied that the property is as described, your solicitor can take that up with the EA/Seller before contracts are signed.

MacronvFrugals

Rebuilding Ireland 5X income mortgages to go from 50,000 income limit to 65,000


Further circumvention of the CB's rules through the backdoor!


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rise-in-income-limit-to-makemore-people-eligible-for-state-mortgage-40613097.html

Amadan Dubh

O'Broin given more column space to put forward his/SF's housing market arguments in the IT once again - it really is a sign of the times that they have such apparent legitimacy on housing with this prominent platform in what is really an establishment publication. The piece itself is a counter-argument to the claims about SF objecting to developments and then talks about public land - nothing new of course at this stage. He does have some attacks on FF/FG though;

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/real-change-beyond-ff-fg-is-only-way-to-tackle-deepening-housing-crisis-1.4611249

The single biggest drag on the delivery of public homes is the combined weight of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform’s public spending code and the Department of Housing’s four-stage approval process. To date neither Fianna Fáil nor Fine Gael have seen fit to change this.

Sinn Féin councillors actively supported the Glass Bottle Housing Action Group campaign for genuinely affordable homes in the Poolbeg SDZ. That master plan will see the delivery of up to 3,500 homes along the southeast docks. Astonishingly, the then Fine Gael minister for housing, Eoghan Murphy, refused to sanction the funding. As a result, the Glass Bottle site was sold, along with the rest of the Poolbeg lands, to the Ronan Group. Council officials have since expressed concern that delivering genuinely affordable homes will now be very difficult.

Sinn Féin has campaigned for decades for public housing on all of these sites. The refusal of successive Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael governments to fund these developments has left the lands idle. Instead, the Government is promoting deals with developers at great cost to both the taxpayer and the local community. The most recent of these, in Donabate, involves the sale of public land to a developer at half its market value. In return, 60 per cent of the homes will be sold at prices up to and exceeding €400,000. Worse still, the developer has 10 years to complete the project.

Sinn Féin’s opposition to such deals is not ideological. It is plain common sense. Public land is a scarce and valuable resource. All homes built on public land should be affordable.

Meanwhile, the IT couldn't make the FG DBS candidate, James Geoghan, look more...Fine Gael (?) in a photo they used for another, unrelated piece on the DBS election. That there is currently no FG representative in the constituency, the FG home constituency arguably, means it is very likely he will be elected. But that there is even a threat to FG in this constituency, with no other representative here, is damning for them.

Let’s see if public dissatisfaction is as strong as some think, if housing is the pressure point for the governing parties, FG/FF candidates should perform poorly and SF/PBP should be strong. If housing isn’t the dominant consideration, or is just one of many considerations, the much maligned axis of evil will coast home, much to the chagrin of the Lefties.

MacronvFrugals

Dav010 wrote: »

Let’s see if public dissatisfaction is as strong as some think, if housing is the pressure point for the governing parties, FG/FF candidates should perform poorly and SF/PBP should be strong. If housing isn’t the dominant consideration, or is just one of many considerations, the much maligned axis of evil will coast home, much to the chagrin of the Lefties.

DBS is no barometer for the country in fairness

Marius34

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Rebuilding Ireland 5X income mortgages to go from 50,000 income limit to 65,000


Further circumvention of the CB's rules through the backdoor!


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rise-in-income-limit-to-makemore-people-eligible-for-state-mortgage-40613097.html

It's not really 5X income, it just due to different rules, there maybe some rare scenario where person would be able to get 5X of their income. Definitely not the person/couple on 65K.

Cyrus

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

O'Broin given more column space to put forward his/SF's housing market arguments in the IT once again - it really is a sign of the times that they have such apparent legitimacy on housing with this prominent platform in what is really an establishment publication. The piece itself is a counter-argument to the claims about SF objecting to developments and then talks about public land - nothing new of course at this stage. He does have some attacks on FF/FG though;

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/real-change-beyond-ff-fg-is-only-way-to-tackle-deepening-housing-crisis-1.4611249









Meanwhile, the IT couldn't make the FG DBS candidate, James Geoghan, look more...Fine Gael (?) in a photo they used for another, unrelated piece on the DBS election. That there is currently no FG representative in the constituency, the FG home constituency arguably, means it is very likely he will be elected. But that there is even a threat to FG in this constituency, with no other representative here, is damning for them.

What does look fine gael mean exactly?

MacronvFrugals

Marius34 wrote: »

It's not really 5X income, it just due to different rules, there maybe some rare scenario where person would be able to get 5X of their income. Definitely not the person/couple on 65K.

That's odd i know at least 5 people who got 5X their income from RI

Marius34

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

That's odd i know at least 5 people who got 5X their income from RI

if you know it was 5X, you probably know the income as well. Was it joint or single income, on what wage brackets?

MacronvFrugals

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

DBS is no barometer for the country in fairness

In fairness, a by-election in the part of the country most acutely affected by the housing crisis could not be a more apt barometric test. Do you think Leitrim or Cavan/Monaghan would give a better indication of the mindset of the public in relation to housing?

MacronvFrugals

Marius34 wrote: »

if you know it was 5X, you probably know the income as well. Was it joint or single applicants, on what wage brackets?

The point is its all demand side, a single person on 51k could borrow 178.5k off the bank they can now borrow 255k off RI

Ace2007

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

The point is its all demand side, a single person on 51k could borrow 178.5k off the bank they can now borrow 255k off RI

But only if the banks have rejected them for a mortgage, if the banks all offer them 178.5k, can they rock on over to the RI and get 255k?

Amadan Dubh

Cyrus wrote: »

What does look fine gael mean exactly?

Well, I mean obviously the stereotype of a D6, private school educated, red brick home-owning, avocado-toast eater. And, of course, not like this anyway;

MacronvFrugals

Dav010 wrote: »

In fairness, a by-election in the part of the country most acutely affected by the housing crisis could not be a more apt barometric test. Do you think Leitrim or Cavan/Monaghan would give a better indication of the mindset of the public in relation to housing?

Anecdotally any of my friends from over that way housing is not too big an issue as their parents make up the difference with gifts, two SF TDs here in what the IT described as the "content suburbs" would be unbelievable but I think Ivana has a very good chance from what my mates do be saying.

Amadan Dubh

Dav010 wrote: »

In fairness, a by-election in the part of the country most acutely affected by the housing crisis could not be a more apt barometric test. Do you think Leitrim or Cavan/Monaghan would give a better indication of the mindset of the public in relation to housing?

I wouldn't necessarily say it is most acutely affected as it is not typically within the affordability spectrum and does not have the most disconnected voting demographic. In fact, it potentially benefits under the status quo.

MacronvFrugals

Ace2007 wrote: »

But only if the banks have rejected them for a mortgage, if the banks all offer them 178.5k, can they rock on over to the RI and get 255k?

Yes, they just say the house they want is 255k show 2 screenshots from bank calculators rejecting that and off you go!

Ace2007

Dav010 wrote: »

Why would a buyer be confined in an open market?

Because the market is flawed, if you think of any any other major investment decision, you wouldn't get away with the current system. I can't just phone up a stockbroker and say that i want to buy 500k worth of shares in xyz, without going through some sort of AML/KYC process, to see if i have the funds etc. When you bid for a share, you get the best price and it's all regulated - unlike housing.

So while folk say it's a market let any others, the main difference is that there is no checks of those bidding or any requirements to have €x in advance of being given access to certain property.

Marius34

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

The point is its all demand side, a single person on 51k could borrow 178.5k off the bank they can now borrow 255k off RI

I would not be sure someone on e 51K would get 255K. At least definitely not someone on joint income, and definitely individuals on 65K would not get 5X their income.

Cyrus

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily say it is most acutely affected as it is not typically within the affordability spectrum and does not have the most disconnected voting demographic. In fact, it potentially benefits under the status quo.

Few places are less affordable

tigger123

Dav010 wrote: »

In fairness, a by-election in the part of the country most acutely affected by the housing crisis could not be a more apt barometric test. Do you think Leitrim or Cavan/Monaghan would give a better indication of the mindset of the public in relation to housing?

By what metric is DBS the most acutely affected by the housing crisis?

I lived in that constituency for years, and still travel in and out of it every day. I also have friends and family living there, so I know it very well. It's doing fine.

As an aside, I always thought it was an FG political masterstroke to stick a TD from DBS (Eoghan Murphy) in as Housing Minister. Come re-election time, his performance in that role would not (and was not!) in anyway affected by his performance in housing (as DBS is quite comfortable on that front).

Amadan Dubh

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily say it is most acutely affected as it is not typically within the affordability spectrum and does not have the most disconnected voting demographic. In fact, it potentially benefits under the status quo.

It is a constituency in the most affected part of the country, are rents/property prices not high in DS, is there no one trying to rent/buy there?

fliball123

Villa05 wrote: »

Does anyone know if that 12% ownership rate for 25 to 39 year olds is an outright or with mortgage ownership

If I recall correctly the census only asks if you own or rent your property

You need to look at all stats in this regards, Its not just home ownership, people get married later, have kids later. People in this generation like to live a little before being saddled with debt , kids and commitments. Its the new norm and one of the outcomes of this is home ownership its not just that they cant afford it its also that they have not started saving early to start the process. All indicators would suggest this. If you need the proof.

Find out what the average age is for having kids/getting married/New phone buying/holidays abroad (obviously all of these will be impacted with 2020/2021 due to corona) the following has gone up to. I am sure there are some who cant afford to buy a house but those who can want to keep the lifestyle of a new phone every 6 months, a new car every year and 4 breaks away a year going.

fliball123

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

We are close to the top of our rollercoaster property cycle and those who will suffer the brunt of it are ordinary young people sucked into this ; we deserve better government as smoothing out this cycle is one of their primary responsibilities .

OK have you a crystal ball. There will be zero drops until building new houses is ramped up in a meaningful matter, the government are still talking and not walking when it comes to this problem. It will take years to build what we need and the longer they remain in zombie mode the longer prices will continue to rise. There is absolutely zero evidence out there that prices are going down any time soon

Amadan Dubh

To be fair, I think you're right. I was thinking that there is probably a larger proportion of home-owners in the constituency so more likely to vote FG. However, this is definitely not the case; it is a constituency of renters - no wonder it is not as cut and dry for FG as it should be.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2020/2020-02-09_dublin-bay-south-constituency-profile_en.pdf

Amadan Dubh

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily say it is most acutely affected as it is not typically within the affordability spectrum and does not have the most disconnected voting demographic. In fact, it potentially benefits under the status quo.

Happened to be in kimmage yesterday, Fianna Fail were canvassing, every single person bar one, mentioned the housing crisis. Usually because of their family members.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

Let’s see if public dissatisfaction is as strong as some think, if housing is the pressure point for the governing parties, FG/FF candidates should perform poorly and SF/PBP should be strong. If housing isn’t the dominant consideration, or is just one of many considerations, the much maligned axis of evil will coast home, much to the chagrin of the Lefties.

certain issues are top of the agenda for media and this can create the impression that they are hugely important to the general public

homelessness

direct provision

neither of those in truth are important to the general voting public and while housing is a far closer to home issue for most compared to the above , I suspect for the majority it is less important than the media would have us believe ?

Villa05

That appears to be the general commentary on the topic, but when you scratch the surface, the fault lines are fairly stark

Firstly, in 2011 much of the required cuts were done all that was left were water charges. That didn't end well

The flagship government project was the children's hospital

The seeds for the recovery were sown by central banks by whatever it takes speech backed up by action. This period of low interest rates was the opportune time to get your house in order

Housing at affordable rates is key to competitiveness in an exporting nation. We started that period in a position of oversupply. The first warnings of a potential issue came in 2013/14 which closely coincided with extra unforseen extra revenue from corporation taxes.

Supply was suppressed through all developers being in Nama and extortionate 14% interest rates on development loans from state owned banks. Even today rates of 7% are quoted for funding for projects that have state guaranteed long term leases for construction projects. Alot of white collar leakage in the cost of building homes.
Couple this with ineffective expensive regulation of construction work when a fully functioning independent system at a fraction of the cost could have been copied from Northern Ireland. Again more white collar leakage

So in terms of housing and property massive opportunities lost to help the competitiveness of our economy

Again the domestic economy is held hostage by rents insurance and legal costs a situation underlined by 1 fg TD assisting another in a legal capacity seeking compensation for a fall of a swing. The scenario shows the level of entitlement and contempt they have for the people they represent.

These costs also crucify working parents with massive childcare costs further damaging competiveness

As for guiding the economy back to where it was. Be very careful what you wish for. House prices might be heading that way but the last time we had significant surplus each year plus the pension reserve fund. We are a long way from that luxury today

Ace2007

Ace2007 wrote: »

But only if the banks have rejected them for a mortgage, if the banks all offer them 178.5k, can they rock on over to the RI and get 255k?

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Yes, they just say the house they want is 255k show 2 screenshots from bank calculators rejecting that and off you go!

But that's not really how it works though, you need to get a letter from the bank etc, and if the bank says it will give you the amount required as per the central bank, then they aren't rejecting you.

Is the whole idea not for people with pool credit history or whatever that can't get 3.5x from the bank in the first place.

MacronvFrugals

Ace2007 wrote: »

But that's not really how it works though, you need to get a letter from the bank etc, and if the bank says it will give you the amount required as per the central bank, then they aren't rejecting you.

Is the whole idea not for people with pool credit history or whatever that can't get 3.5x from the bank in the first place.

This RIHL provides mortgages at reduced interest rates to first-time buyers who have been refused a mortgage or were offered “insufficient” finance, by at least two lenders.

https://www.moneyguideireland.com/new-mortgages-available-local-authorities.html

Villa05

Villa05 wrote: »

Again the domestic economy is held hostage by rents insurance and legal costs a situation underlined by 1 fg TD advising another in a legal capacity that a fall of a swing was someone else's fault. The scenario shows the level of entitlement and contempt they have for the people they represent.

Source please.

Eclectic Econometrics

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Anecdotally any of my friends from over that way housing is not too big an issue as their parents make up the difference with gifts, two SF TDs here in what the IT described as the "content suburbs" would be unbelievable but I think Ivana has a very good chance from what my mates do be saying.

Living here, my anecdotal experience is that if any of my neighbors have kids their kids number one concern would be what to do after retirement and not housing. I only see old people, I am talking bought Penny-farthing's when they first came out old.

So I dug around and found this - https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2020/2020-02-09_dublin-bay-south-constituency-profile_en.pdf

This massively contradicts what I see with my eyes. The two standout stats are the % of people living in rented accommodation and those that are pre-family compared to the rest of the state.

growleaves

I am sure there are some who cant afford to buy a house but those who can want to keep the lifestyle of a new phone every 6 months, a new car every year and 4 breaks away a year going.

Waffle.

The obsession with consumer prices as the 'cause' of inability to access housing is the silliest talking point on this thread and in the media. It should be taken an admission of deep confusion.

Consumer prices are down across the board, the costs are deflated through labour arbitrage and import arbitrage. 'Fixed' costs like housing have diverged and are going in the other direction, up.

Very poor economic analysis. Although I guess you do realise that consumer prices have deflated relative to fixed costs like housing since you're having to claim that a normal person - within two years - buys two cars, four phones and takes eight holidays.

Do they also drink 12 cups of coffee a day at an expensive coffee house that charges a €5 a cup? Don't forget they buy a new laptop every 3 months also.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Waffle.

The obsession with consumer prices as the 'cause' of inability to access housing is the silliest talking point on this thread and in the media. It should be taken an admission of deep confusion.

Consumer prices are down across the board, the costs are deflated through labour arbitrage and import arbitrage. 'Fixed' costs like housing have diverged and are going in the other direction, up.

Very poor economic analysis. Although I guess you do realise that consumer prices have deflated relative to fixed costs like housing since you're having to claim that a normal person - within two years - buys two cars, four phones and takes eight holidays.

Do they also drink 12 cups of coffee a day at an expensive coffee house that charges a €5 a cup? Don't forget they buy a new laptop every 3 months also.

I doubt the point being made related solely to consumer prices, more to consumer consumption and the desire to have the latest issue.

Amadan Dubh

Eclectic Econometrics wrote: »

Living here, my anecdotal experience is that if any of my neighbors have kids their kids number one concern would be what to do after retirement and not housing. I only see old people, I am talking bought Penny-farthing's when they first came out old.

So I dug around and found this - https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2020/2020-02-09_dublin-bay-south-constituency-profile_en.pdf

This massively contradicts what I see with my eyes. The two standout stats are the % of people living in rented accommodation and those that are pre-family compared to the rest of the state.

You dug around the previous page of this thread you mean!