Landlord passed away, tenant can't contact anyone?

3DataModem

In this case:
- hold on to rent. Paying it into the bank account of a deceased person is a bad idea. The account could be closed, you may be paying it to a joint account that the estate won't have claim over (so in effect, you are not actually paying it to the landlord's estate but to a third party).
- write to their estate care of undertaker, care of bank, and care of previous address, and ask them to contact you.
- once they contact you, they will be happy to hear you are wanting to move out. You can make a deal for the rent you've held, deposit, etc with the estate that will suit you and them most likely.

cruizer101

Calahonda52 wrote: »

A new low in the land of pi$$ing on graves

I think some people must be reading a different thread to me.

What we know

Tenant has been paying rent for years
LL passed away a while ago unknown to tenant
Tenant continued to pay rent
A payment bounced, so they are now putting rent aside to have ready for when it needs to be paid. (Maybe they should continue to pay and have it bounce every month but putting it aside is not a bad decision)
The father who is possibly the executor to will was in contact once but hasn't been in contact again, so tenant has no contact details.

What have they done wrong?
More effort could be made to try and get in contact, but is that not what they are asking about.

They are now in effect out of pocket because they can't apply for HAP nor can they really leave as they can't give proper notice.

Its sad someone died but the sadness is kind of irrelevant for the OP's friend.
8 months is plenty of time for someone to have contacted the Tenant to let them know what the situation is.

There’s also the possibility that the Father could have passed away or is sick since she last had contact with him.

...Ghost...

cormie wrote: »

Are you attempting to imply that I'm posting this for myself by putting "friend" in inverted commas?

How would the bank passing on her details to the deceased landlord be an option? Even if they were to end up with the father, the father already has her details as he called her, she doesn't have his... and call history on bills is for outgoing calls, not incoming.

Your posts have come across as someone who is happy that a "friend" is now living in a house and not having to pay rent because the LL has passed away. You have tried to justify not paying rent and have asked if the rent could be "demanded" at a later stage. Then the convenient broken phone and the sob story of her employment woes while saying she is putting the rent aside and that she shouldn't have to pay rent because of some maintenance costs. Give me a break dude.

If what you say is true, your friend can find the new LL easily enough. Her telecoms provider should be able to provide sent and received call history with a data request. The bank approach will have her contact details sent to the executor of the estate. The Father lost his Son, so your friend is not top of his priority list.

However, it seems to me that the bigger interest is to live rent free while also putting money aside incase the rent is later "demanded". The job woes and noisy neighbours are not nearly good enough excuses to withhold rent. My neighbours had a spate of loud weekends a couple years ago. I still paid the mortgage. Call me a cynic, but I smell opportunism and I don't like to see people taking advantage in such circumstances.

MacDanger

Lots of people on here more than happy to jump in and judge :rolleyes:

OP, here's what I'd recommend your friend to do:

1) If she wants to move out of the property:
- Find somewhere new
- Move out and leave a note with her contact details (phone, email, a permanent address that she can be contacted at) and saying that she has all the back rent owed saved
- Hold on the to back rent (including any receipts for essential work completed) so that she has it when the estate comes looking for it

2) If she wants to stay in the property (this seems like more hassle than it's worth IMO):
- Make more attempts to contact the estate (undertaker, bank, other suggestions on here) - she needs this to start paying rent again, get repairs done, apply for HAP, etc.

Good luck with it

cormie

Thanks again for the input. Her whole enquiry is based off her suspicion there may be no estate to the deceased so was wondering what the situation would be in that case, hence the post. From what she knows, the father is the only family he had and there's also a possibility the father himself has passed on as she believes he was quite old. It has been stated here that the property would then go to the state and given it's been her home for over 10 years, she was wondering would she have any claim to it the same way people in council houses can be offered to buy their home from the state at a reduced cost etc.

She has been keeping the rent aside , not expecting to get away with anything, but she would understandably like to know what would be the outcome if that were to continue for another few years with there being no estate. Her issues with the neighbours, inability to claim HAP etc further complicate things.


So in the case where there is no actual person with ownership of the property if it was not willed to anyone and it ends up property of the state, would anyone know what her options are in terms of applying for HAP etc? The suggestion of applying anyway and "she can illustrate that she only has x% of the rent owed as she couldn't claim HAP due to the death of the LL" is one she might explore for sure so thanks for that.

Thanks again for all continued input above. The advice mostly seems to assume there is a heir to estate, but in the case where nobody has been willed the property, what would happen?

sharpish

Your friend likes living there and is settled. It is in their best interest to make contact with the landlord's father they were in contact with before. Regularise the situation and move on, they might get a few months of free rent by ignoring the situation, but in the end, they'll have to move, it'll cause more stress for a grieving family, there'll be a hassle and finding a place in a pinch is a pain in the hole. ( they may want to sell anyway but given they've been a tenant so long, they'll get about 3 months notice, when did the rent last go up?, certain rent pressure zones have limits on how much the rent can be increased by, so staying could be beneficial )

The original lease is still valid. It just rolls over. There might be contact details or an address on this document that will lead you to contact the family.

The management company may have been informed of the new owner and would likely pass on contact details that your friend is looking to get in touch with.

The earlier posters about banks, RIP etc., are correct also.

I've had a need to contact landlords before, and you do find them and get them on the phone or get an address to call round to.

What does the death notice on rip.ie say?

“Will be missed by his father and ????????”

And you can leave your condolences on rip now or on the undertakers page whose details will be on rip. If you see something like “rip great uncle paddy” or “long lost cousin” then there’s your claims to rightful beneficiaries of his estate.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The tone of your posts is quite one of trying to get one over on the estate of the deceased (if the rent was subsequently 'demanded' etc.) which is quite low, regardless of your friend's personal circumstances.

I don't get that from the posts.
It's sad that the landlord seems to have passed away young, but how much is the OP supposed to be doing?

Bounced rent payment, no maintenance, no contact.

I get that the father is old and might not be able to manage, but it all adds up to leaving the tenant in a very uncertain situation.

cormie

...Ghost... wrote: »

...

Of course I'd be happy for a friend that if their home they paid rent in for over 10 years ended up going to the state, that she could then have some claim over it to buy it cheaper or similar to how they do with council houses? She believes there may be a strong possibility there is no heir to the estate. She has made some effort to try and get more information and posting here is looking for advice on what other options may be open to her. Methods of getting in touch through undertakers/banks etc have been suggested and are appreciated and she can act on these now.

I have not referenced the noisy neighbours as any reason to withhold rent, but as reason why she is considering moving out. If you choose not to believe her phone was broken and she didn't have access to the number the father rang her off and saying he would phone her in a week's time and she's never heard from him since, even though she's kept the same number he originally rang her on, that's on you.






Again thanks for the suggestions on how she can pursue this matter further.

Did the father not tell her to keep paying rent into the same account?
Why is she not doing this?

Other than potential good will or the executor wanting a quick sale there is no obligation for the new owner to sell at a discount to a tenant.

Don't assume that there are no relatives - it could all pass back to the father and then from him to his family brothers/sisters, nieces/nephews etc.

cormie

bubblypop wrote: »

Did the father not tell her to keep paying rent into the same account?
Why is she not doing this?

She had been for 8 months after the LL died until it started to bounce and it had been months since she had last spoken to the father who said he would contact her back and she had no way of contacting anyone for maintenance requirements etc so she's just been keeping it aside and paying whatever maintenance from it.

Deleted User wrote: »

Other than potential good will or the executor wanting a quick sale there is no obligation for the new owner to sell at a discount to a tenant.

Don't assume that there are no relatives - it could all pass back to the father and then from him to his family brothers/sisters, nieces/nephews etc.

I'm more referring to that if it were to go to the state, as she feels there may be no heir to the estate, would she be eligible for any opportunity to buy it the same way people in council houses may be offered to buy the house after living there x years etc

cormie

cormie wrote: »

She had been for 8 months after the LL died until it started to bounce and it had been months since she had last spoken to the father who said he would contact her back and she had no way of contacting anyone for maintenance requirements etc so she's just been keeping it aside and paying whatever maintenance from it.



I'm more referring to that if it were to go to the state, as she feels there may be no heir to the estate, would she be eligible for any opportunity to buy it the same way people in council houses may be offered to buy the house after living there x years etc

How can she afford to buy a house if she’s trying to organise Housing Assistance Payment?

pinkypinky

It's highly unlikely that this man and his father existed without other relatives. If the son had no will, then his estate passes to his next of kin, which can be a parent or siblings or further out relatives if necessary. I don't think your friend should be getting her hopes up that she might get an opportunity to purchase the house instead of the state getting it. However, if she wants to offer to buy it, then continuing to try pay the rent and make more effort to contact whoever is a good idea.

cormie

cormie wrote: »

She had been for 8 months after the LL died until it started to bounce and it had been months since she had last spoken to the father who said he would contact her back and she had no way of contacting anyone for maintenance requirements etc so she's just been keeping it aside and paying whatever maintenance from it.
/quote]

You stated in the OP that you thought there may have been one bounced payment.
So, one or more than one? Why did she not contact the bank?

Meeoow

cormie wrote: »

She had been for 8 months after the LL died until it started to bounce and it had been months since she had last spoken to the father who said he would contact her back and she had no way of contacting anyone for maintenance requirements etc so she's just been keeping it aside and paying whatever maintenance from it.


I'm more referring to that if it were to go to the state, as she feels there may be no heir to the estate, would she be eligible for any opportunity to buy it the same way people in council houses may be offered to buy the house after living there x years etc

Even if it went to the state, the house would be done up and given to the next person on the list. No way your friend would get it.

giles lynchwood

She has done everything possible to make contact,so keep her mouth shut,every day, month, year makes stronger case for her and if she manages 12 years she can go to court and make a strong case for possession,keep all receipt's and take photos of all maintence carried out.

Mimon

JustAThought wrote: »

Phone broken, number lost, think ll might be dead, not bothering to pay rent and planning to freeload for years it seems. How convenient.

Well they can persued through the courts for breech of contract by the solicitor representing the estate - if indeed the LL is even dead.

Hopefully they’ll be crucified in the courts - too many opportunistic freeloaders out there.

No doubt the family solicitor will be delighted to do it. Should stop them trying something like this on again - particularly from an elderly, sick man.

If everything you say is true.

How did people become such freeloaders and at whose knee did they learn to have such sewer values.

Here we see the OP blaming famous on Boards.ie. Totally OTT post.

If it were my friend, I'd be advising them to spend the next while looking for a new place to live then move out and leave forwarding info regarding how to contact them for the back-rent owed. House keys and a note on the kitchen table and move on.

Mimon

Deleted User wrote: »

If it were my friend, I'd be advising them to spend the next while looking for a new place to live then move out and leave forwarding info regarding how to contact them for the back-rent owed. House keys and a note on the kitchen table and move on.

Why?

cormie

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

How can she afford to buy a house if she’s trying to organise Housing Assistance Payment?

How do people living in council houses afford to buy a house? Her work situation may change in that time if her industry and wage goes back to what it was.

pinkypinky wrote: »

It's highly unlikely that this man and his father existed without other relatives. If the son had no will, then his estate passes to his next of kin, which can be a parent or siblings or further out relatives if necessary. I don't think your friend should be getting her hopes up that she might get an opportunity to purchase the house instead of the state getting it. However, if she wants to offer to buy it, then continuing to try pay the rent and make more effort to contact whoever is a good idea.

Do you know in what case a property would end up going to the state so? How far down the relative line would it go before it goes to the state?

bubblypop wrote: »

You stated in the OP that you thought there may have been one bounced payment.
So, one or more than one? Why did she not contact the bank?

From what I know, it bounced in February, 8 months after she had been paying after the LL died and she has just been keeping it aside since as she's had no contact from anyone. She can start getting in touch with the suggested avenues in this thread now.

Meeoow wrote: »

Even if it went to the state, the house would be done up and given to the next person on the list. No way your friend would get it.

giles lynchwood wrote: »

She has done everything possible to make contact,so keep her mouth shut,every day, month, year makes stronger case for her and if she manages 12 years she can go to court and make a strong case for possession,keep all receipt's and take photos of all maintence carried out.

These two posts contradict eachother, one says no way, the other says if she manages 12 years she can make a strong case? What has 12 years got to do with anything out of interest?

Mimon

Mimon wrote: »

Why?

Stability.

listermint

Shouldn't the title be changed to 'friend' looking to cultivate a method to get a free house . What way can my 'friend' get a free house via adverse possession.


It would the quicker title than the dancing around the core subject.

Mimon

Deleted User wrote: »

Stability.

Will have to be given plenty of notice in any eventuality so don't see it as and issue.

Lmkrnr

Say nothing, the house is now your friends. She will get all the relevant documentation from the state once she has shown that she deserves this free house. Your friend don't need to do anything. Definitely don't go back to work as if they earn to much they might lose the HAP and free house.

Its also a good time to apply for a medical card as its means tested as they have no income, so it should be straight forward. The house is free and that wont be factored in.

I love a good luck story. I hope i don't read a story in a few year's with a killer plot twist like doing away with the landlord to steal the estate.

Claw Hammer

Whoever is the landlord should have registered with the RTB. Ask the RTB who the landlord is.

pinkypinky

cormie wrote: »

Do you know in what case a property would end up going to the state so? How far down the relative line would it go before it goes to the state?

There'd have to be literally no one. I know some people who do probate genealogy & they can trace back several generations and down again to find someone.

Thoie

cormie wrote: »

She had been for 8 months after the LL died until it started to bounce and it had been months since she had last spoken to the father who said he would contact her back and she had no way of contacting anyone for maintenance requirements etc so she's just been keeping it aside and paying whatever maintenance from it.

As already pointed out, the easiest way to get in touch is to send a letter to the undertaker, asking them to pass the info to the relatives of the deceased. The undertaker won't be breaking any data privacy laws by doing that.

In the letter she should outline that the bank account doesn't seem to be accepting her monthly rent, so she's been putting it aside. Include copies of all receipts for critical maintenance, and request permission to withhold those amounts from the rent owed. Provide her phone number/email address and even the house address (to make things simple for the bereaved).

Ask who she should contact for any future maintenance issues - e.g. the estate executor/a solicitor.

cormie

Thanks again for the helpful replies folks. She had a look on the probate register place and she couldn't find anything from searching his name.

She also contacted RTB again about details for the landlord and said the last time she contacted them she was told they can't give that info out, then this time they said they can't give the info out unless she fills out a form online and sends it in so she's going to do that too.



There was a really helpful post by K.Flyer I saw but it looks like it's since been removed, she didn't have a chance to read it before it was removed