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Not Guilty by reason of Insanity READ OP FIRST

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,683 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    py2006 wrote: »
    She can go back to work???

    Does this mean she is currently out and about? Drinking a take away pint if she wants and watch netflix tonight?

    Anyone condemning her who's actually read the details of the case. She's detained in a psychiatric institution and will remain there for some time, possibly for a longer period than had she been sentenced for murder.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭rn


    A heart breaking and tragic case. The lady is likely never to leave hospital regardless of the verdict. And she's infamous so prospects of rejoining society in any semi normal way, are remote.

    Need to be careful about drawing analogies to dwyer and Hawes cases.

    Here we have the benefit of collecting statements from the murderer. And they've been interpreted by professionals. In Hawes case, there was no trial. We don't have the same level of evidence as regards actual insanity. Clearly mental health issues, but not meeting the diagnosis of insane.

    Dwyer is a completely different case altogether. Clearly again there's mental issues, but not insane. And dwyers motivations were to serve his own sexual and personal desires towards random people he interacted with. In this case, the mother clearly linked her illness to her own flesh and blood.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,277 ✭✭✭poisonated


    Very sad case. What is the central mental hospital like? Is it nice?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    poisonated wrote: »
    Very sad case. What is the central mental hospital like? Is it nice?

    No. I’d rather be on prison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    I had to google who he was.



    Just reading an article about him, incredible the words used to talk about the case and how they refer to him.


    ''Psycho!! Alan Hawe butchered entire family''


    ''Controlling Hawe killed wife and kids''


    '' The FREAK!! was caught accessing porn on a laptop at school''


    The name calling and labeling of him is strange for a news article.

    There was also a bizarre social media campaign to remember his wife's name because people were outraged that local people had the gall to suggest he was well respected, the last person you'd expect, etc etc.

    It was a bizarre moment in Irish societal history, but because our national discourse is seemingly controlled these days by the rants of a few thousand left wing loons on Twitter (and lazy journalists broadcast this bile as reflective of the national mood) it won't be the last time it happens.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    She was obviously planning this for a long time. Playing a "game" with your kid where you tape their mouth shut is not normal.

    This was no sudden bout of madness if it was madness. This was carefully planned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    She was obviously planning this for a long time. Playing a "game" with your kid where you tape their mouth shut is not normal.

    This was no sudden bout of madness if it was madness. This was carefully planned.

    Also, by her own admission, she didn't want to spend the rest of her life in jail so she tried to kill herself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    When it is clear that both the defence and prosecution agree that the defendant is insane then the trial outcome is a foregone conclusion.
    There's nothing strange about that whatsoever.

    I would imagine that the jury dragged their heels because the psych evaluation didn't seem to describe

    - the death of the first boy seemed to stem from an argument about his TV viewing. So a lost temper potentially came into it, regardless of the attempt the night before

    - was it explained to the jury how it is possible to be detatched from reality enough to do this, but compus mentis enough to know to wait until the husband was away, to have the gumption to engage in normal cnversation with him, her niece, members of the public throughout the day, etc etc.

    I think some jurors thought it was odd they were merely given a "so here's what happened, can you sign this and we will get home now". No real explanations beyond "IMO" and the judge basically telling them what to go for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    poisonated wrote: »
    Very sad case. What is the central mental hospital like? Is it nice?

    Not nice for a person who is probably fairly sane right now. That's not a remark against the sentence. I mean she was relatively sane for 40 years before having that momentary breakdown. I don't think she's in the same league as some of the people in there. She might manage to make friends with some of the nurses. Nicer than prison. Prison really is a cesspit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,683 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    The silence from the usual feminist rent a gobs is deafening.




    It does seem a strange system whereby the defence and DPP can agree on an outcome but require a jury to essentially rubber stamp it.

    Why the anti-feminist agenda on this topic? Makes no sense when a Dad has lost his three kids and his wife is detained in a psychiatric institution.

    The defence of insanity used for several murder cases on this island, both men and women and examples of the former given on this thread.

    Something very sad has happened and many lives are lost or ruined. And yet you want to pour bile over half the population. Poster heal thyself. Asking yourself why that's your reaction would be a good start?

    And studying the legal system before posting should be another objective. It ain't complicated. It really isn't.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    A family member committed suicide 2 years ago. Their depression had become psychotic and in their note they apologised but said God had told them to do it and they were terrified of what would happen to us all if they didn't follow these instructions from God. This is someone who had appeared 'normal' as they went about their plans to kill themselves. They were still working in their job with these delusions and no one around them would have known how unwell they are. They were attending doctors sporadically but not on the right medication or being monitored closely enough.
    So so unbearably sad for that poor family

    Very sad indeed. The science of psychiatry is only in its infancy and it is not an exact science. Mental health practitioners are not clairvoyants. In time we will perhaps develop mind reading computers and there will be treatments that will eliminate mental disorders. Until then tragedies like this are a sad sad part of life.


  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Seathrun66 wrote: »
    And studying the legal system before posting should be another objective. It ain't complicated. It really isn't.

    I've been going blue in the face trying to explain this and people don't give a damn.

    For many, it's a way to go after the lefties and to do more sh*tposting.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    I would imagine that the jury dragged their heels because the psych evaluation didn't seem to describe

    - the death of the first boy seemed to stem from an argument about his TV viewing. So a lost temper potentially came into it, regardless of the attempt the night before

    - was it explained to the jury how it is possible to be detatched from reality enough to do this, but compus mentis enough to know to wait until the husband was away, to have the gumption to engage in normal cnversation with him, her niece, members of the public throughout the day, etc etc.

    I think some jurors thought it was odd they were merely given a "so here's what happened, can you sign this and we will get home now". No real explanations beyond "IMO" and the judge basically telling them what to go for.

    People have developed fixed beliefs can and do act this way. There's nothing strange at all. This is cut and dried.


  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    Seathrun66 wrote: »

    The defence of insanity used for several murder cases on this island, both men and women and examples of the former given on this thread.

    Has a man ever been committed to an asylum for this type of crime?

    Something very sad has happened and many lives are lost or ruined. And yet you want to pour bile over half the population. t.

    Half? Not at all. Just a low thousands number of Twitter loons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,155 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    What happens her now?

    Free to go


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    What happens her now?

    Free to go

    That was the impression I was getting from some of the earlier posts but apparently she will be in some sort of mental hospital.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Has a man ever been committed to an asylum for this type of crime?.

    Yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,752 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    py2006 wrote: »
    That was the impression I was getting from some of the earlier posts but apparently she will be in some sort of mental hospital.

    But when she is "sane" again, there is a danger she gets released. Thats my understanding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭archfi


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Whatever about the younger 2 but after killing them she picked up the eldest lad from school, bought him his lunch in a shop, then took him home and killed him. Completely pre-meditated.
    It's odd for me to say this considering the overall horror of what happened but that is the bit that stunned and horrified me the most.
    The thought of it.


    RIP to those kids and wishing the best of every care and help for the dad.

    The issue is never the issue; the issue is always the revolution.

    The Entryism process: 1) Demand access; 2) Demand accommodation; 3) Demand a seat at the table; 4) Demand to run the table; 5) Demand to run the institution; 6) Run the institution to produce more activists and policy until they run it into the ground.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    No child killer should be deemed sane if the logic used to determine the outcome here is applied across all cases of child killers.

    Having the ability to kill a child is something that’s a danger to society

    It was premeditated by the description of driving the youngest lad from school and buying him lunch.

    Can’t imagine what the husband must be going through


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  • Registered Users Posts: 86,761 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Faugheen wrote: »
    How can you possibly keep reading this and conclude what you are concluding? Seriously?
    How can you read this and get angrier and angrier?
    Are you reading the testimonies of not one, but two, psychiatrists that give an insight into her frame of mind at the time?
    Are you reading the statement from Andrew?
    Seriously, psychiatrists, the prosecution, defence, jury and husband all agree with this outcome yet for some reason you think otherwise.
    I absolutely understand with three beautiful children involved (I've been hugging my own daughter a lot more over the last number of days) that it can lead to emotional reactions but you are simply not reading this case properly.
    On the evening of January 23rd last year, Ms Morley crushed between six and eight morphine tablets to put in the boys cereal and put a Tylex tablet containing codeine in her daughter’s drink. However, the accused “abandoned any further actions” to harm the children that evening as the two boys “spat out” their bedtime snack when they tasted it and her daughter did not consume much of the drink.
    The trial was told that Darragh was the first child to be killed and there had been a disagreement that morning over the amount of “screen time” he was watching on his iPad and the television. After midday, Ms Morley said she “just had to end” their suffering, looked at the clock and remembered thinking “I could smother him now. I could kill him now”. She got some “brown thick tape” from the utility room and took plastic bags from under the sink. She put some tape over Darragh’s mouth, a bag over his head and a cushion on top of the bag inside the play tent. She said she “didn’t want to do it but had to do it”. He asked her “what are you doing mammy” and struggled under her for a few minutes before passing out. After he was dead, the accused carried his body to the master bedroom upstairs and put him on the bed.
    After killing Darragh the accused said she felt she “couldn’t leave any of them behind” and put a plastic bag over Carla’s head and used a cushion to smother her. After bringing her body upstairs, she realised her daughter was still breathing and held her nose until this was no longer the case.
    After collecting her eldest child Conor from school and bringing him to Tesco to buy a roll for lunch, she brought him home where they watched “Jurassic World” in the front room. She suggested playing a game where they first put tape over their mouths to see if he could talk through it and she then put a plastic bag over his head. The boy told her “Stop Mammy” but she said she did not feel that she could stop herself from suffocating him and pulled the bag tighter by twisting it. She told her son: “I’m sorry Conor”. She left him inside the play tent and was unable to carry him upstairs to his siblings’ bodies.
    Ms Morley was recorded as telling psychiatrists from Tallaght Hospital in the days after the event that Conor was “more difficult” to kill and she had considered dropping him off at a friend’s instead so he would be safe. However, she said “things had gone too far” so she smothered him also.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/deirdre-morley-found-not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity-of-murdering-her-three-children-1.4570351

    :(

    I am sorry Faugheen but I am thinking of these three innocent little victims whose should be loved and cherished by their parents


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Three psychiatrists for the defence and prosecution disagree with you .

    The same sort that said she was fine prior to that day ... and we all know the results of that


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    pjohnson wrote: »
    But when she is "sane" again, there is a danger she gets released. Thats my understanding.

    Looks like it.

    But how can you be sane after that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Yes.

    .....some names might be useful here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,683 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    I had to google who he was.



    Just reading an article about him, incredible the words used to talk about the case and how they refer to him.


    ''Psycho!! Alan Hawe butchered entire family''


    ''Controlling Hawe killed wife and kids''


    '' The FREAK!! was caught accessing porn on a laptop at school''


    The name calling and labeling of him is strange for a news article.

    Not strange for The Sun.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,752 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    py2006 wrote: »
    Looks like it.

    But how can you be sane after that?

    She was an inpatient before for "treatment" but fluked herself to freedom so she'll know how to get released again.

    Unless she is institutionalized for life. Is that a thing that can be done?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Ellie2008


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/deirdre-morley-came-to-believe-her-cherished-children-were-doomed-1.4570660?mode=amp

    Very detailed article.

    She was no doubt a woman who suffered from very acute anxiety. A lot of normal enough - grief, exam stress. I really felt for her where the article mentions that she rung work to check on patients as she was worried.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,155 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    It's so mess up, so hard to fathom . I totally understand those who will never understand her actions.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    pjohnson wrote: »
    But when she is "sane" again, there is a danger she gets released. Thats my understanding.

    Why shouldn't she be released if she recovers? People who have killed while insane are released routinely from secure hospitals. Defendents who have recovered from psychotic episodes who are found to have been insane at the time of their crimes and are now sane and no longer mentally ill are free to go.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    pjohnson wrote: »
    She was an inpatient before for "treatment" but fluked herself to freedom so she'll know how to get released again.

    Unless she is institutionalized for life. Is that a thing that can be done?

    Why would she be institutionslized for life? If she recovers from her mental illness she can't be held against her will.


This discussion has been closed.
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