Not Guilty by reason of Insanity READ OP FIRST

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think 'Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity' judgements were handed like junk mail through a letterbox.


- Miraculously few defendants fake insanity. It's not a 'get out of jail free card'

- Only about 1% of criminal cases even attempt an insanity plea and, of those, only about 1/4 are successful.

- Someone found NGRI are also likely to spend more time in a mental institution than they would if they had been found guilty and went to prison.

- In the vast majority of cases, both the prosecution and defence expert psychiatrists agree on whether the defendant is insane or not.

So 75% of those claiming insanity are actually sane... can’t say I’m surprised.

Seathrun66

tobefrank321 wrote: »

She was obviously planning this for a long time. Playing a "game" with your kid where you tape their mouth shut is not normal.

This was no sudden bout of madness if it was madness. This was carefully planned.

Who said it was sudden? Not the psychiatrists nor prosecution nor defence nor judge.

Seathrun66

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

I would imagine that the jury dragged their heels because the psych evaluation didn't seem to describe

- the death of the first boy seemed to stem from an argument about his TV viewing. So a lost temper potentially came into it, regardless of the attempt the night before

- was it explained to the jury how it is possible to be detatched from reality enough to do this, but compus mentis enough to know to wait until the husband was away, to have the gumption to engage in normal cnversation with him, her niece, members of the public throughout the day, etc etc.

I think some jurors thought it was odd they were merely given a "so here's what happened, can you sign this and we will get home now". No real explanations beyond "IMO" and the judge basically telling them what to go for.

Four hours and twenty three minutes is not dragging their heels. Juries are instructed to go over the evidence and return with any questions.

py2006

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Why shouldn't she be released if she recovers? People who have killed while insane are released routinely from secure hospitals. Defendents who have recovered from psychotic episodes who are found to have been insane at the time of their crimes and are now sane and no longer mentally ill are free to go.

Interesting.

Are those people unaware of the crimes they committed while they were insane? If I was declared healthy again but told "oh by the way you are a multiple murderer", I don't think I would be healthy for much longer.

skinny90

For context, I’m not a crier. Never do I get affecting watching things like this but here I’ve never ever cried as much as I have watching that. The strength he has to go though it all is just incredible

Seathrun66

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Has a man ever been committed to an asylum for this type of crime?



Half? Not at all. Just a low thousands number of Twitter loons.

Of course. Many times. And you can thank me for doing the research for you.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058187560&page=32

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/man-found-not-guilty-of-infant-son-s-murder-by-reason-of-insanity-at-retrial-1.4114745

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-who-killed-elderly-mother-guilty-but-insane-1.417826

Seathrun66

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What happens her now?

Free to go

Read the case. Detained in a psychiatric institution. And will be for years.

FileNotFound

I never understand the insanity plea in the ae cases.


I mean your hardly sane if your off murdering to start with but that's hardly an excuse.


People like this should be locked away in more secure and restricted facilities, not let live in some country house

Curse These Metal Hands

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Read the case. Detained in a psychiatric institution. And will be for years.

Unless she passes a periodic review. It seems she has already made progress in her recovery and seen the error of her ways. Could be sooner than you think.

Seathrun66

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

.....some names might be useful here?

I've posted some cases. As have others here that you've conveniently ignored. Men found not guilty of family murder on grounds of insanity very regularly.
Next time Google the results for Ireland, UK, France, US, Germany, etc. Information freely available and all jurisdictions have this defence.

Samsonsmasher

py2006 wrote: »

Interesting.

Are those people unaware of the crimes they committed while they were insane? If I was declared healthy again but told "oh by the way you are a multiple murderer", I don't think I would be healthy for much longer.

Of course they are aware.
You obviously don't understand mental illness or insanity or the law.

pjohnson

Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »

Unless she passes a periodic review. It seems she has already made progress in her recovery and seen the error of her ways. Could be sooner than you think.

What a surprise. All part of the plan, probably from the moment when she decided to murder them.

py2006

If a man did this and was sent to prison (as in most cases) he would be kept in isolation as he would most likely be bumped off by the other inmates.

py2006

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Of course they are aware.
You obviously don't understand mental illness or insanity or the law.

I understand mental illness to an extent. I don't understand insanity or the law.

EDIT: understand is the wrong word. significant knowledge would be more apt

Samsonsmasher

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Read the case. Detained in a psychiatric institution. And will be for years.

She'll be detained until she recovers.

Seathrun66

Strumms wrote: »

So 75% of those claiming insanity are actually sane... can’t say I’m surprised.

And by those stats the insanity verdict is given in one in four hundred criminal cases. That implies diligent work by the courts and psychiatrists to ensure it doesn't get abused.

Isn't that good to hear?

MoonUnit75

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Of course. Many times. And you can thank me for doing the research for you.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058187560&page=32

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/man-found-not-guilty-of-infant-son-s-murder-by-reason-of-insanity-at-retrial-1.4114745

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-who-killed-elderly-mother-guilty-but-insane-1.417826

The irony of your post is that, along with another case posted earlier, all three men were found guilty at trial. The first case above shows he was subsequently found not guilty by reason of insanity, after spending 16 years in jail. So, great examples to show equal treatment of men and women? Nope.

Seathrun66

FileNotFound wrote: »

I never understand the insanity plea in the ae cases.


I mean your hardly sane if your off murdering to start with but that's hardly an excuse.


People like this should be locked away in more secure and restricted facilities, not let live in some country house

Exactly where she is, the Central Mental Hospital for forensic patients.

Seathrun66

pjohnson wrote: »

What a surprise. All part of the plan, probably from the moment when she decided to murder them.

That plan being to kill her kids, be detained in a forensic psychiatric unit for 16 months, go to trial at the Central Criminal Court in a blaze of publicity then return to the forensic unit for an indeterminate time? As plans go.....

TP_CM

For anyone thinking she's getting off lightly for some reason. Don't forget how lenient our prison terms are here. If some of the worst of the worst can get out in 10 years, a nurse with a perfect history and mental health problems would probably get a lot less. Just in case anyone thought, had she been deemed sane, that she'd just spend the rest of her days in prison. This isn't America.

py2006

She will be based here for the foreseeable

Seathrun66

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

She'll be detained until she recovers.

Minimum five years I'd guess given my experience in this area. Much psychological work couldn't start because of the impending trial and the time she required to process the events. That work will begin shortly and will take years. She will be slowly reintroduced to society and the team will be very wary of a premature release. She will remain a suicide risk forever and this will also delay her departure.

There'll be experimental day release and brief periods of stay in new accommodation slowly built up.
I'd estimate full release close to the end of the decade.

Seathrun66

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

The irony of your post is that, along with another case posted earlier, all three men were found guilty at trial. The first case above shows he was subsequently found not guilty by reason of insanity, after spending 16 years in jail. So, great examples to show equal treatment of men and women? Nope.

Donegal case not guilty. Please re-read.

Dublin case a mistrial. Not guilty on appeal.

Galway case the defendant pleaded guilty so the judge and jury accepted that.

All cases of men killing family members. All cases where insanity was accepted. what the poster asked for. What the poster got.

Numerous cases you can find yourself but you can instead ignore them and continue on your anti-female agenda. It must be so overwhelmingly tiring.

pjohnson

Seathrun66 wrote: »

That plan being to kill her kids, be detained in a forensic psychiatric unit for 16 months, go to trial at the Central Criminal Court in a blaze of publicity then return to the forensic unit for an indeterminate time? As plans go.....

She killed her kids and avoided jail. She said after that she couldn't face jail now she doesnt have to.

KungPao

Hang her high tbh.

MoonUnit75

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Donegal case not guilty. Please re-read.

Dublin case a mistrial. Not guilty on appeal.

Galway case the defendant pleaded guilty so the judge and jury accepted that.

All cases of men killing family members. All cases where insanity was accepted. what the poster asked for. What the poster got.

Numerous cases you can find yourself but you can instead ignore them and continue on your anti-female agenda. It must be so overwhelmingly tiring.

Just reminding the ideologues of what they were saying just a few short years ago. People were arguing that Hawe couldn't be psychotic because he logged in to the bank account after killing the rest of the family. It was also argued that 'patriarchy' leads men to think they own their wives and children and makes them feel entitled to take them with them to the grave. In this case it was admitted by the mother "She thought about taking her own life, but thought “I can’t leave the children.”"

Look, I think in both cases there's clear evidence of a severe mental crisis, it's not 'anti-female' to point out that coming to this conclusion in the Hawe case was in itself seen as deeply immoral and caused a bitter reaction. They had their monster figure of hate and were not going to let that be taken from them.

Seathrun66

pjohnson wrote: »

She killed her kids and avoided jail. She said after that she couldn't face jail now she doesnt have to.

So you're saying this was all a plan and she's not insane. Wouldn't a plan like this be the very definition of insanity?

Samsonsmasher

KungPao wrote: »

Hang her high tbh.

Yet another poster who doesn't understand that when somebody is insane they aren't responsible for their actions.

MoonUnit75

Seathrun66 wrote: »

So you're saying this was all a plan and she's not insane. Wouldn't a plan like this be the very definition of insanity?

In the final week of her children’s life, Ms Morley “started to think about a plan”. “I wanted to evaporate for a long time. I’m not sure when it became more definitive,” she said.

She thought about taking her own life, but thought “I can’t leave the children.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/deirdre-morley-came-to-believe-her-cherished-children-were-doomed-1.4570660?mode=amp

Doesn't mean she wasn't experiencing a psychotic episode. It's worth remembering though that even with disorganised thoughts, people experiencing psychosis can plan ahead and take apparently logical steps to accomplish this. Men just do a much better job of finishing themselves off afterwards.

Seathrun66

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Just reminding the ideologues of what they were saying just a few short years ago. People were arguing that Hawe couldn't be psychotic because he logged in to the bank account after killing the rest of the family. It was also argued that 'patriarchy' leads men to think they own their wives and children and makes them feel entitled to take them with them to the grave. In this case it was admitted by the mother "She thought about taking her own life, but thought “I can’t leave the children.”"

Look, I think in both cases there's clear evidence of a severe mental crisis, it's not 'anti-female' to point out that coming to this conclusion in the Hawe case was in itself seen as deeply immoral and caused a bitter reaction. They had their monster figure of hate and were not going to let that be taken from them.

Keep researching online for insanity verdicts regarding male killers. You'll find enough reading for the weekend.