Not Guilty by reason of Insanity READ OP FIRST

Samsonsmasher

pjohnson wrote: »

My empathy is reserved for the victims not the murderer.

She was insane when she committed the killings. She wasn't responsible for her actions.

JP Liz V1

con___manx1 wrote: »

People who think this woman is pure evil have no empathy.
In all honesty who would have 3 kids raise them just to murder them in cold blood.
She worked in a children's hospital. Obviously kids die all the time in this hospital.
I read that one particular patient in her care died and it affected the woman quite badly.
I honestly don't no how any nurses or doctors can be fully sane that deal with that type of thing. I have the highest respect for any nurses or doctors to be honest.
I just think the woman lost her mind working in that environment so I think the verdict is fair.

What so her job is to blame

She was a nurse in a children's hospital yet she went home and murdered her own children

How many health care workers have lost patients of all ages especially now in this covid pandemic time but do not go out and kill

IMHO life in Ireland should mean life not just the max of 25 years, I assume she will be out in a few years from her current hospital

Maybe because I have been watching Criminal Minds lately and they talk of unsub mimicking insanity cognitive behaviour fooling psychiatrists

The jury of ten men and two women reached their decision on Thursday after four hours and 23 minutes of deliberations.
Mr Justice Paul Coffey thanked the jury on behalf of the people of Ireland for their time during the "short, very difficult and distressing case".
They are now exempt from jury duty for 15 years.
Mr Justice Coffey had earlier told jurors that to return a special verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity they must be satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the 44-year-old was suffering from a mental disorder.
Mr Justice Coffey explained that to come to that decision they must believe she either did not know her actions were wrong, the nature of what she was doing or she was able to refrain herself from committing the acts.
Ms Morley, of Parson's Court, Newcastle, Co Dublin, has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity to the murder of her sons Conor McGinley, nine, Darragh McGinley, seven and her daughter Carla McGinley, three.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/deirdre-morley-found-not-guilty-24150745

Samsonsmasher

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

What so her job is to blame

She was a nurse in a children's hospital yet she went home and murdered her own children

How many health care workers have lost patients of all ages especially now in this covid pandemic time but do not go out and kill

IMHO life in Ireland should mean life not just the max of 25 years, I assume she will be out in a few years from her current hospital

Maybe because I have been watching Criminal Minds lately and they talk of unsub mimicking insanity cognitive behaviour fooling psychiatrists



https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/deirdre-morley-found-not-guilty-24150745

Here's another poster who doesn't understand mental illness and insanity and the law.

The lady did not know right from wrong due her mental illness and has therefore been found guilty but insane. She wasn't responsible for her actions.

That's why she has been committed to hospital for treatment if or when she recovers she will be released.

Life should mean life for a sane person.

Giving a life sentence to an insane person or a person who was once insane and has since recovered is utterly unjust.

JP Liz V1

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

In the final week of her children’s life, Ms Morley “started to think about a plan”. “I wanted to evaporate for a long time. I’m not sure when it became more definitive,” she said.
She thought about taking her own life, but thought “I can’t leave the children.”
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/deirdre-morley-came-to-believe-her-cherished-children-were-doomed-1.4570660?mode=amp
Doesn't mean she wasn't experiencing a psychotic episode. It's worth remembering though that even with disorganised thoughts, people experiencing psychosis can plan ahead and take apparently logical steps to accomplish this. Men just do a much better job of finishing themselves off afterwards.

And yet she did not, she survived but her kids did not, was that part of her "plan"

JP Liz V1

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Here's another poster who doesn't understand mental illness and insanity and the law.
The lady did not know right from wrong due her mental illness and has therefore been found guilty but insane. She wasn't responsible for her actions.
That's why she has been committed to hospital for treatment if or when she recovers she will be released.
Life should mean life for a sane person.
Giving a life sentence to an insane person or a person who was once insane and has since recovered is utterly unjust.

She was found not guilty by reason of insanity

pjohnson

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Here's another poster who doesn't understand mental illness and insanity and the law.

The lady did not know right from wrong due her mental illness and has therefore been found guilty but insane. She wasn't responsible for her actions.

That's why she has been committed to hospital for treatment if or when she recovers she will be released.

Life should mean life for a sane person.

Giving a life sentence to an insane person or a person who was once insane and has since recovered is utterly unjust.

You've said this so many times today, have you considered it may actually be YOU rather than everyone else?

JP Liz V1

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

How many health care workers have lost patients of all ages especially now in this covid pandemic time but do not go out and kill

How many have been diagnosed as clinically insane?

IMHO life in Ireland should mean life not just the max of 25 years, I assume she will be out in a few years from her current hospital

Anders Breivik got 21 years in Norway for massacring 77 people and injuring 350+.

Norway has the best justice system in the world. Their solution is not "lock everyone up for 1,000,000,000 years."

Maybe because I have been watching Criminal Minds lately and they talk of unsub mimicking insanity cognitive behaviour fooling psychiatrists

Criminal Minds????

It's entertainment and not meant to be based in reality.

In the real world, the number of people that feign insanity is small.

JP Liz V1

Deleted User wrote: »

Criminal Minds????
It's entertainment and not meant to be based in reality.
In the real world, the number of people that feign insanity is small.

Some episodes are based and inspired by real life crimes

Strumms

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

She was insane when she committed the killings. She wasn't responsible for her actions.

She was responsible.

She won’t be made to face up to that responsibility, simply because in modern Ireland it’s now deemed that people who commit heinous and criminal acts, the first reaction it seems by many, including the mental health excusers, is to give them an excuse...

Graham Dwyer who killed Elaine O Hara.. on the face of it a deeply sadistic lunatic ? Well in the eyes of the law, a convicted murderer.
A text...
- I want to stick my knife in flesh while I am sexually aroused… I would like to stab a girl to death some time.

— Graham Dwyer, Text from 083 phone, June 2011[9]
My urge to rape, stab or kill is huge. You have to help me control or satisfy it.

A convicted murderer.

Suckit

Just watched some of Conor's clips...

Faugheen

pjohnson wrote: »

You've said this so many times today, have you considered it may actually be YOU rather than everyone else?

Actually, boards is regularly full of people who don’t understand the law and instead push their own pre-judgements.

This case is no different. Lots of posts where people defame her and pinpoint one small line in a Garda statement that suggests she might have known what she was doing, and ignoring the statements before and after which clearly debunk it.

People wanted her found guilty of murder and aren’t happy with the facts of the case because it’s not what they wanted despite the prosecution, the defence, judge, jury and Andrew McGinley all agreeing with it.

Don’t get me started on the oppressed men brigade using this case as a political tool to push their warped views and a chance to attack a woman.

You also have people in this thread going on about ‘the media’ and how this case was reported differently to others. The fact this line is being thrown out shows there is a real absence of understanding of the law around defamation. I would explain it to you but you seem to think you and everyone else understands the law so I don’t have to.

JimmyVik

con___manx1 wrote: »

People who think this woman is pure evil have no empathy.
In all honesty who would have 3 kids raise them just to murder them in cold blood.
She worked in a children's hospital. Obviously kids die all the time in this hospital.
I read that one particular patient in her care died and it affected the woman quite badly.
I honestly don't no how any nurses or doctors can be fully sane that deal with that type of thing. I have the highest respect for any nurses or doctors to be honest.
I just think the woman lost her mind working in that environment so I think the verdict is fair.

I would be checking the circumstances of any children in that hospital who died or got very sick while she was working there.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

She was responsible.

She won’t be made to face up to that responsibility, simply because in modern Ireland it’s now deemed that people who commit heinous and criminal acts, the first reaction it seems by many, including the mental health excusers, is to give them an excuse...

Graham Dwyer who killed Elaine O Hara.. on the face of it a deeply sadistic lunatic ? Well in the eyes of the law, a convicted murderer.
A text...
- I want to stick my knife in flesh while I am sexually aroused… I would like to stab a girl to death some time.

— Graham Dwyer, Text from 083 phone, June 2011[9]
My urge to rape, stab or kill is huge. You have to help me control or satisfy it.

A convicted murderer.

There is a massive difference between being deeply sadistic and clinically insane. It's akin to comparing the sun to Pluto.

Graham Dwyer was in possession of his faculties when he sent those texts.

Mehapoy

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

On the contrary, I don't think I was the only one appalled at how ideologues exploited the Hawe case to further their agendas and indulge in some unfettered misandry. Gender theorists were all over that like a f***** rash and, as far as they were concerned, they owned the debate. They even appropriated one of the victim's names as their banner.

(FYI, I don't accept that men and women are treated equally in these cases, either in the courts or in the press).

Looking at it, you really would need to be mentally ill to kill your own family so it's not an unexpected judgement in any case, whether it's man or woman.
What I find nauseating is when it's a man the feminists and fellow travellers will be all over the media declaring it's a result of 'toxic masculinity' and declaring men should be accountable for the actions of other men and it's an issue of respect for women.
Basically using a tragic family scenario to further their own agendas, that they are given media attention to proclaim this is disturbing in itself. Call it what it is a mental health failure, failure to cater adequately for those with mental difficulties and proper Family services.

suicide_circus

Fred Daly wrote: »

The mental health services are appalling in this country.

FYP

suicide_circus

For her own sake and that of society i'd hope she is doped up to the eyes for the rest of her natural.

francois

Fantastic amount of legal and psychiatric experts on here, who'd have thought it.

Lemonee_

Interesting article here regarding the Central Mental Hospital, gives a good explanation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity-inside-the-central-mental-hospital-1.3544665?mode=amp

malinheader

I read the report on this yesterday, well I read as much as I could. I really find myself torn between the verdict but I'm not an expert in this field. All I can say I wouldn't of wanted to be a doctor or psychiatrist having to really study the fine details of what happened. Very hard even to watch the poor kids on the news last night. R.I.P.

JackTC

"Three days later, now on an anti-psychotic drug, she was calm, but heartbroken. But she told doctors "

This is something I can't stop thinking about. She was stabilized immediately after the incident so how has she been spending her time the last year and a half. I know they must have exercise and tv rooms but she's not unstable like most people there would be, she experienced a psychotic episode. She's probably been feeling normal ever since she got on the right meds, the people in the CMH are people who's mental health is so severe that they cannot look after themselves.

It just boggles the mind how she must be spending her time in there. It's like Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.

Murph85

She should never be around kids again! Tie her tubes while they are it...

pjohnson

Murph85 wrote: »

She should never be around kids again! Tie her tubes while they are it...

No one sane would go near her anyway.

Still chilling to think it was a paediatric nurse. Literally the last job a person like that should have.

MoonUnit75

Mehapoy wrote: »

Looking at it, you really would need to be mentally ill to kill your own family so it's not an unexpected judgement in any case, whether it's man or woman.
What I find nauseating is when it's a man the feminists and fellow travellers will be all over the media declaring it's a result of 'toxic masculinity' and declaring men should be accountable for the actions of other men and it's an issue of respect for women.
Basically using a tragic family scenario to further their own agendas, that they are given media attention to proclaim this is disturbing in itself. Call it what it is a mental health failure, failure to cater adequately for those with mental difficulties and proper Family services.

Yep.

Poster X: you b@stard, even mentioning mental health in a discussion about a man who brutally killed his children/you b@stard, not accepting mental health in a discussion about a woman who brutally killed her children/you b@stard, bringing up our hypocrisy in a discussion about a woman who brutally killed her children.

Casati

Lemonee_ wrote: »

Interesting article here regarding the Central Mental Hospital, gives a good explanation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity-inside-the-central-mental-hospital-1.3544665?mode=amp

Thanks for sharing, goes into a lot of detail
and answers a lot of question about how the process works.

One piece in the article has struck a cord, that is ‘A crime that requires any degree of planning would typically not qualify, even if the accused was mentally ill’

It appeared from the details shared in media that Deirdre did carefully plan the killing of her children.

Wanderer78

knucklehead6 wrote:

Deirdre Morley has been found not guilty by reason of insanity

I wish her and her family the very best, what a horrendous situation

Lillyfae

Why do people talk about "mental health issues" like they're some homogenous state? Would you compare cancer to sneezing or bumping your elbow??

This poor woman was continuously engaging with mental health services for diagnosed issues, to the point of being hospitalized for several weeks- she wasn't deliberately withholding her lack of wellbeing from anyone. Depression, anxiety and bipolar disorder can render a person totally unable to communicate their state of mind or thought processes, even to themselves. She was utterly failed by the services she was engaged with.

It is also my opinion that her employer had a not insignificant role to play in her mental health issues. There was mention of workplace bullying, which can be soul destroying. There was a case in Cork a few years ago where a man committed suicide because of the torment he was experiencing at work. She would call on her day off to check up on her patients- pediatric healthcare workers should be completely supported in keeping a very hard line between their work and personal lives, and dealing with the trauma they are regularly faced with.

My heart goes out to the Morley and McGinley families, Andrew, Deirdre and may the beautiful Conor, Darragh and Carla RIP- what an horrific tragedy.

Samsonsmasher

Strumms wrote: »

She was responsible.

She won’t be made to face up to that responsibility, simply because in modern Ireland it’s now deemed that people who commit heinous and criminal acts, the first reaction it seems by many, including the mental health excusers, is to give them an excuse...

Graham Dwyer who killed Elaine O Hara.. on the face of it a deeply sadistic lunatic ? Well in the eyes of the law, a convicted murderer.
A text...
- I want to stick my knife in flesh while I am sexually aroused… I would like to stab a girl to death some time.

— Graham Dwyer, Text from 083 phone, June 2011[9]
My urge to rape, stab or kill is huge. You have to help me control or satisfy it.

A convicted murderer.

A person who is insane is not responsible for their actions. That's the law.

Samsonsmasher

Mehapoy wrote: »

Looking at it, you really would need to be mentally ill to kill your own family so it's not an unexpected judgement in any case, whether it's man or woman.
What I find nauseating is when it's a man the feminists and fellow travellers will be all over the media declaring it's a result of 'toxic masculinity' and declaring men should be accountable for the actions of other men and it's an issue of respect for women.
Basically using a tragic family scenario to further their own agendas, that they are given media attention to proclaim this is disturbing in itself. Call it what it is a mental health failure, failure to cater adequately for those with mental difficulties and proper Family services.

Insanity is determined on a case by case basis.
Parents who are perfectly sane deliberately kill their children all the time. Parents who are insane kill their children all the time.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I wish her and her family the very best, what a horrendous situation

I wish and hope that she has to re-live the evil she commited every waking moment and is kept away from the public for the rest of her life

Her family, I wish all the best.

Samsonsmasher

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Insanity is determined on a case by case basis.
Parents who are perfectly sane deliberately kill their children all the time. Parents who are insane kill their children all the time.

Thankfully both scenarios are incredibly rare.