Not Guilty by reason of Insanity READ OP FIRST

Muahahaha

namloc1980 wrote: »

Whatever about the younger 2 but after killing them she picked up the eldest lad from school, bought him his lunch in a shop, then took him home and killed him. Completely pre-meditated.

Like others have said this is the part of the case that is really disturbing. Its hard to imagine her just having killed two kids and then having the calmness to get into the car and go to his school to pick up the third child, a boy of 9 years of age and then bringing him home to kill him too. She might even have had small chat with other parents outside the school while waiting on her son all the while knowing she had just killed her two youngest children.

I dont know enough about psychiatric definitions of insanity to make a judgement. I suppose the pop culture idea of it is someone going visibly mad, maybe hitting their own head, that sort of thing. But whatever insanty is it seems hard to reconcile it with her being deemed as insane when she calmly went to the school to pick up the last kid having already murdered the first two.

SnrInfant

yaknowski wrote: »

Alan Hawe was a pox, mental or not and so is this woman.

I'd assume that she'll top herself if/when her mental health issues are resolved and the gravity of her actions start to bear down on her. Hopefully she is mentally disturbed enough that she never has to fully comprehend or relive the horror.

The last thoughts those children took to the grave was their mother was doing that to them. It's beyond horrific.

How can you be so self-absorbed that you believe your children are better off dead than being without you, when in these cases, the opposite is most definitely true.

And I hope she does it the same way as those poor babies, their death must have been horrific. Seeing her watching and not helping. Her eldest asked her not to, my heart broke reading this 😢
I’ve a son the same age as Conor. I could not comprehend being the cause of a slow and horrific death on those poor children!

Samsonsmasher

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Mental illness and insanity are different.



This lady was assessed by a psychiatrist and it was determined she had lost touch with reality believing by killing her children she was doing good. She was the definition of insane.

If the verdict of a psychiatrist has this legal standing, if this science is unquestionable such that it changes the murder of three kids into a regrettable symptom, then the verdict of the scientist who was paid to have her out and in charge of three kids should in itself be prosecutable

Somewhere in the gaps, people are getting paid and tragedies are happening and nobody is responsible.

Antares35

Bambi wrote: »

Yeah, so racked with guilt that she's still breathing gods air. Poor her.

The POS men who murder their families don't get this "poor cratur" treatement and most of them at least had to decency to top themselves as well.

**** her and the horse she rode in. She's still alive and those kids are not.

This is something I notice about these kinds of cases. I don't wish anyone dead of course - I think she will pay the ultimate price by living with the guilt, but a lot of time these people manage to take the lives of their babies, intending to also take their own - yet they somehow fail at the last hurdle. They can kill their kids but can't quite find the wherewithal to kill themselves...

JP Liz V1

Sorry I know a stupid question but what was the point of a jury if they were told deliberate a not guilty verdict by reason of insanity

Tyrone212

Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »

At least Ireland is slowly starting to understand the seriousness of mental illness. Heartened to see no character assassinations in the papers this time. Alan Hawe was found to be severely mentally ill by leading psychiatrist Dr. Kennedy but that didn't stop some disgraceful articles being written. People on here were determined to reject his opinion because "evil." We need to try to understand why these types of crimes keep happening.

We need better mental health supports in Ireland.

You can't attribute every heinous crime to mental illness either. Often people are just evil.

Tyrone212

shesty wrote: »

She wanted to kill herself too.Not in her right mind.

Its harder to kill 3 people than it is to kill yourself. She's a dab hand at one and evidently rubbish at the latter.

jmayo

Car99 wrote: »

It does not mean she will spend the rest of her life locked up. Once she is deemed medically fit to return to society she will be allowed out of hospital.

Our psychiatrists and prison system have been hoodwinked in the past by supposedly reformed and those deemed medically fit to walk around amongst only for them to kill again.

Sorry if you mentally ill and kill someone and the chance of you not hurting others is probably dependant on you taking some form of drugs then no way you ever be allowed out again.

maxsmum wrote: »

well, she was found insane at the time she committed the murders.
She will be released when she is no longer deemed a risk, and the reports mentioned she responded very well to treatment soon after the incident, so she could be released tomorrow in theory.

Bollocks to that shytology.
She should never ever fooking see freedom again.
I don't care too fooks whether it is a prison or a psychiatric hospital she is in.

What if she stops taking her meds in the future ?

Munstergirl854 wrote: »

Diagnosed as bi-polar.I think it was after a child patients death which seemingly triggered something.

I have friends that are bipolar and apart from them being really depressed (and listening to them it sounds unbearable) or being at other end completely manic if they fail to keep on meds, they have never ever considered hurting others.
Themselves yes.
This one on the other hand thought it best to kill her three innocent little children.

dmakc

Does the fact these are her own kids bring some unfounded leniency? What if they had a friend over who suffered same fate. God forbid. Can't get my head around this decision.

CptMonkey

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Sorry I know a stupid question but what was the point of a jury if they were told deliberate a not guilty verdict by reason of insanity

I’d like to know too. Seems pointless to have the jury there and then give the verdict. Could have brought 12 people in off the street after the trial abs achieved the same outcome

Faugheen

Think it might be worth reading the husband's statement

https://twitter.com/ciananbrennan/status/1395419452150276102?s=20

No surprise that he raises questions about her treatment of State mental health services.

JimmyVik

As far as i am concerned i dont care what illness someone is suffering from. If they can murder 3 children in that manner they should be thrown off the highest cliff that can be found.
That poor man.

castletownman

She was lucid enough to attempt to poison them the night before.

She was calculated enough to mask the true extent of her illness, and as others have said, collect the eldest from school before murdering him.

She had also planned to obviously end her own life, which surely in itself required a bit of a clear mind.

What I found odd was on the Last Word this evening, both the court reporter and Matt Cooper appeared to show as much sympathy to her as they did the poor husband. Don't know if that would be the narrative if the shoe was on the other foot.

You'd think 'Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity' judgements were handed like junk mail through a letterbox.


- Miraculously few defendants fake insanity. It's not a 'get out of jail free card'

- Only about 1% of criminal cases even attempt an insanity plea and, of those, only about 1/4 are successful.

- Someone found NGRI are also likely to spend more time in a mental institution than they would if they had been found guilty and went to prison.

- In the vast majority of cases, both the prosecution and defence expert psychiatrists agree on whether the defendant is insane or not.

raclle

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Three psychiatrists for the defence and prosecution disagree with you .

I mean lets be realistic here, our justice system is not exactly what you call "justice"

jk23

This reminds me of the Chris Benoit case, he was a professional wrestler. Had sustained years of trauma to his head and committed murder suicide of his wife and child.

He has been virtually erased from the company he worked for history and is rightly branded a murderer even though it was found afterwards that his brain was incredibly damaged....

SimonTemplar

Maybe the law needs to be updated to allow for cases like this.

My understanding is that she said she genuinely believed killing them would be in their best interest, and this understanding was brought about due to her insanity. I think that lack of malice contributed to her not being found guilty of murder (willing to be corrected on that).

So instead of 'not guilty by reason of insanity' perhaps we should have 'manslaughter by reason of insanity'.

joe40

JimmyVik wrote: »

As far as i am concerned i dont care what illness someone is suffering from. If they can murder 3 children in that manner they should be thrown off the highest cliff that can be found.
That poor man.

Did you read the Man's statement. He agrees the verdict probably correct.
If the father of the dead children can accept the verdict then I I don't want anyone thrown of a cliff.

99nsr125

The One Doctor wrote: »

That doesn't mean she'll be released, just that she'll be in Dundrum/Portrane for the rest of her life.

She did a terrible thing and I hope she dies a terrible death.

***********

Look after your mental health and please tell someone you trust if you feel bad.

My dad tried to strangle me when I was a kid, his cousin tried to kill all his kids with a knife.

Yep,

She still murdered 3 children, even planning it, picking one up from school.

Would it be the same if her husband then murdered her ?
The justice system is outrageous in its sexist bias.

JackTC

Anyone have access to the full interview?

https://www.independent.ie/news/interview-i-lost-everybody-that-day-even-though-dee-is-still-alive-andrew-mcginley-on-the-day-deirdre-morley-killed-his-three-children-40450231.html

starkid

its a ****ing sickening act. Alan Hawe was rightly cut off from any memorial etc, this woman is no different.

JimmyVik

DrFrost wrote: »

Not a chance. You think anybody would accept a child killer living in their neighborhood? Would need an identity change etc to have any chance. Even then, if discovered, would be ran out of any area by the locals, or much worse.

I bet the people living near her whos kids probably visited her house to play with those poor children realize what a lucky escape their kids had.
Jesus to think that a monster like this is actually being supported turns my stomach.

Car99

Car99 wrote: »

It does not mean she will spend the rest of her life locked up. Once she is deemed medically fit to return to society she will be allowed out of hospital.

Not a chance. You think anybody would accept a child killer living in their neighborhood? Would need an identity change etc to have any chance. Even then, if discovered, would be ran out of any area by the locals, or much worse.

Seathrun66

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

I don’t care

And therein lies the rub. You don't care.

Most of us do. This poor woman. This poor man. These poor children. Enough suffering, why would you want more?

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

I bet the people living near her whos kids probably visited her house to play with those poor children realize what a lucky escape their kids had.
Jesus to think that a monster like this is actually being supported turns my stomach.

Yeah, exactly. People can say what they want about "insanity... Should be released when well", but they wouldn't have her living next to them and their families.

newuser99999

starkid wrote: »

its a ****ing sickening act. Alan Hawe was rightly cut off from any memorial etc, this woman is no different.

What do you mean cut off from memorials?

Bit cynical

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Sorry I know a stupid question but what was the point of a jury if they were told deliberate a not guilty verdict by reason of insanity

CptMonkey wrote: »

I’d like to know too. Seems pointless to have the jury there and then give the verdict. Could have brought 12 people in off the street after the trial abs achieved the same outcome

The judge is only there to advise on law. The jury don't have to accept direction outside of law and could have found the defendant guilty if they wished.

JimmyVik

joe40 wrote: »

Did you read the Man's statement. He agrees the verdict probably correct.
If the father of the dead children can accept the verdict then I I don't want anyone thrown of a cliff.

So what if he agrees. He has been fcucked up in the head by this more than anyone else. not surprised he would write something like that if he was asked to by her family or indeed by the local priest.


The woman planned the execution of her own 3 children.
God knows what she would do to someone elses children if they had knocked at the door looking for the kids to come out to play that day.
A monster.

JP Liz V1

Faugheen wrote: »

This thread is going swimmingly well and isn't led by emotion whatsoever.
Comparisons to Alan Hawe are nonsense. He was a controlling d!ck and took his wife and family so they would never find out about his great fall from grace as an upstanding member of the community.
Anyone who can't see the clear differences between these two cases is blind or trying to push an agenda. It's a horrific case and if more details come to light I will happily change my mind but right now I don't see any other verdict but this one.

I can understand the comparisons, both killed their children, I can't fathom how anyone could do that to a child what a world we live in

iamwhoiam

JimmyVik wrote: »

So what if he agrees. He has been fcucked up in the head by this more than anyone else. not surprised he would write something like that if he was asked to by her family or indeed by the local priest.


The woman planned the execution of her own 3 children.
God knows what she would do to someone elses children if they had knocked at the door looking for the kids to come out to play that day.
A monster.

Have you even read the case ? Other children were very unlikely to have been at risk .