ESRI says we need more "progressive" taxes lol

Kingkong

jams100 wrote: »

There's a point though where your more or less encouraged to not work. That's the problem. If I was offered overtime tomorrow I'd have to think is it worth it as I'm going to be taxed 50%.

Progressive is good but the problem is that we as a country waste too much money.
Most people wouldn't mind paying a small bit more if we thought we were going to get some value from it, but we won't...metro, dart underground, hospitals, prisons, colleges all areas that have seen feck all infrastructure spend despite the high tax the likes of myself and others pay.

100% agree.

However, until the public sector can attract the top talent and get the smarter people needed to drive this, the cycle will continue.

Geuze

Cheerful S wrote: »

The belief among many unemployment benefit is a severe handicap for the taxpayer and the state. But there are plenty of oddities in the figures I can’t quite separate out. Someone receiving 200 a week for unemployment, that’s 800 a month, year to year base time that’s just 9600 across 12 months.

I realize some married people receive more every week than a single person, but just for this estimate everyone got 9600 a year and there 200,000 men/women unemployed country. My estimate is total bill short of 2 billion if my math is right? In that case 21 billion left over the budget 23 billion? There must be abundance of waste or nonsensical wages for people working in this sector to account for this or am I missing something that's cost more?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/02f594-annual-sws-statistical-information-report/

Welfare spending:

Pensions = 8.2 bn
Illness, Disability, Caring = 4.5 bn
Child Benefit = 2bn approx

JSB = 348 m
JSA = 1.6 bn

Cheerful S

Geuze wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/02f594-annual-sws-statistical-information-report/

Welfare spending:

Pensions = 8.2 bn
Illness, Disability, Caring = 4.5 bn
Child Benefit = 2bn approx

JSB = 348 m
JSA = 1.6 bn

Figures for Pensions do make sense with 600,000 over 65s in the country. Honest reality, it not social welfare. the real burden its state Pensions for those people retiring. There's a high number of older people in the country, and government supports them.The bill for social welfare relatively low compared to Pensions.

Child benefit given to everyone despite income differences between households. In reality, it a stupid waste of taxpayers' money when top earners can fund their children's education and wellbeing.

Illness, disability and caring. You probably find a lot of waste here too and people pulling fast ones to recieve payments.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I really wish they would look at the stealth taxes we pay.



TV License for example. Here are some veeery conservative figures:



To make the math a little easier, lets say there are 25 TV License Inspectors, earning 40k a year. Thats a million a year. 160 euros for a TV License means 6250 people have to pay their license just to pay for the inspectors. Thats colossally inefficient. My estimate of a million doesn't include, mileage, administration, overheads, the true figure could easily be double that.



Why can't the license fee not be taken via normal taxation, thereby negating the need for inspectors, administration, etc.

Have you included the Lifetime Community Rating? It punishes younger people to take out private health insurance by the age of 34 and if you go over that it increases on year. Oh and by the way
Health insurance policyholders overpaying hundreds on entry-level plans

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/health-insurance/health-insurance-policyholders-overpaying-hundreds-on-entry-level-plans-40354951.html


Health insurance uptake on the rise, but so are prices


https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0425/1211891-health-insurance-uptake-on-the-rise-but-so-are-prices/


The younger generation in this country are being taken for fools!

RulesOfNature

jester77 wrote: »

Be prepared to pay more in tax, mandatory health insurance, property tax, water charges, higher electricity costs, church tax, etc The grass is not greener here. But at least you will see all that money being properly spent.

And yet I'll still accumulate more wealth and have better prospects moving there. Funny how that works.

Mad_maxx

RandomViewer wrote: »

Accountant is basically a data entry clerk, €20-24kmax, usually weedy little runt with a moustache, surplus to society but we can't feed them to the crows so he's let do his little job, but Ireland has decided that nerd central is worth more than someone who saves lives and makes the world a better place,

That's silly

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That's silly

Poor effort. I'd give it a 3/10.

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

So you want people on €20-30k to take a bigger hit ?

I live in Scandinavia were the lowest income earners will pay 36% tax on their income in the country I'm in. I know, I am one of these low income earners. You get a huge amount in return however. The reason Ireland's services are so poor in comparison is because those on low incomes pay next to no tax.

Mules

In most welfare states people on low incomes pay a fair whack of tax because the idea is that public services are for all and you can't have some people not contributing at.
Social welfare is taxed and isn't open ended so people on low incomes won't just transfer to social welfare to avoid tax.

I think that is a much fairer way of doing things. I think a lot of our problem is when we had a load of money coming in in the early 2000's the government went mad generous on spending while also cutting tax. The tax base is too small but it isnt politically possible to change it.

In many EU countries with public healthcare systems everyone has to pay a small amount of insurance towards it every year. People don't get things for free and there isnt the sense of entitlement that some people have here.

I think we need to choose if we want to pay a lot of tax for decent public services or pay less tax and have more money in our pockets.
We cant have both and having a situation where some of the heaviest users of public services don't contribute isn't sustainable.

Also, people living in social housing should have to pay more in rent as the discrepancy between those rents and private sector rents is too large. I'm ok with having less money in my pocket for decent services as long as everyone is contributing

decreds

RandomViewer wrote: »

Those so called high earners aren't paid that kind of money anywhere else, A country that pays accountants more than nurses is fuxxxd up

Those in STEM fields are paid handsomely more in countries such as Australia, Canada, Switzerland, the US, Dubai/Singapore and even some European countries.

We are not as competitive as we make ourselves out to be.


I love Ireland but it's had it's day. When all the high value earners leave all it will be left with is bloated civil servants, fraudulent migrants and career welfare specialists. Place will be a 2nd/3rd world country in 50 years.

agoodpunt

A friend was commenting recently how the Justice department were directing allowances to be made available to persons arriving into the state from outside the EU, being fast tracked for housing and social welfare, 1 instance last week he had being sent copies of passports and details of the transiting flights and connections.
How much tax will the open border and provision of state resources and allowances cost the 6 or 700,000 private sector workers before this madness is stopped.
I didnt mention the continent 2 void been labeled rasist

Mules

agoodpunt wrote: »

A friend was commenting recently how the Justice department were directing allowances to be made available to persons arriving into the state from outside the EU, being fast tracked for housing and social welfare, 1 instance last week he had being sent copies of passports and details of the transiting flights and connections.
How much tax will the open border and provision of state resources and allowances cost the 6 or 700,000 private sector workers before this madness is stopped.
I didnt mention the continent 2 void been labeled rasist

Giving state housing and social welfare to asylum seekers will turn out to be disastrous. It will be a massive pull factor and will create serious resentment.

If the government wanted to cause trouble between the native population and asylum seekers they couldn't have come up with a better plan. The only reason they've gone down this road is media and ngo pressure. A government shouldn't have their policies dictated by those groups.

SEPT 23 1989

RandomViewer wrote: »

Accountant is basically a data entry clerk, €20-24kmax, usually weedy little runt with a moustache, surplus to society but we can't feed them to the crows so he's let do his little job, but Ireland has decided that nerd central is worth more than someone who saves lives and makes the world a better place,

That little runt with a moustache saves me a lot of money every year

Leave him alone

Ludwig Wittgenstein

Mules wrote: »

Giving state housing and social welfare to asylum seekers will turn out to be disastrous. It will be a massive pull factor and will create serious resentment.

If the government wanted to cause trouble between the native population and asylum seekers they couldn't have come up with a better plan. The only reason they've gone down this road is media and ngo pressure. A government shouldn't have their policies dictated by those groups.

The only ones looking to “cause trouble” between the native population and asylum seekers are those peddling false narratives that the “Place will be a 2nd/3rd world country in 50 years.” Straight out of the populist playbook.

Cheerful S

Cheerful S wrote: »

Child benefit given to everyone despite income differences between households. In reality, it a stupid waste of taxpayers' money when top earners can fund their children's education and wellbeing.

For pensions we should force people to have private pensions, including the public sector. Too late now maybe.

But nothing wrong with universal benefits. Health is a universal benefit.

Ludwig Wittgenstein

Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote: »

The only ones looking to “cause trouble” between the native population and asylum seekers are those peddling false narratives that the “Place will be a 2nd/3rd world country in 50 years.” Straight out of the populist playbook.

Actually the peddlers of American ideologies like “white supremacism” and calling every European country “racist” are equally to blame for race relation issues.

Mules

Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote: »

The only ones looking to “cause trouble” between the native population and asylum seekers are those peddling false narratives that the “Place will be a 2nd/3rd world country in 50 years.” Straight out of the populist playbook.

I suppose we'll see. I dont think we will be a 2nd or 3rd world country but I dont see it ending well in terms of societal cohesion.

As a country we have a history of generosity in charity and aid and similar. I do believe we have a naivety in that a lot of the most generous among us don't see that many people will take advantage of that. Giving foreigners the same benefits as citizens is very unusual and confined to a few Northern European countries.

decreds

decreds wrote: »

Those in STEM fields are paid handsomely more in countries such as Australia, Canada, Switzerland, the US, Dubai/Singapore and even some European countries.

So Ireland is 5th or 6th?

agoodpunt

Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote: »

The only ones looking to “cause trouble” between the native population and asylum seekers are those peddling false narratives that the “Place will be a 2nd/3rd world country in 50 years.” Straight out of the populist playbook.

It should be a collective and open EU policy to help poorer economies Ireland are been thrown under the bus here the burden is not been shared.
We need more progressive taxes what about less progressive and more accountability where the money goes we dont even have EU standard health police or a friggin army to show the high taxes already.

RandomViewer

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That little runt with a moustache saves me a lot of money every year

Leave him alone

Bas$$$$ told me taxman wanted X, gave it to him, bailiff landed looking for the money a few weeks later, my biggest regret ever is letting that c### live

Mules

RandomViewer wrote: »

Bas$$$$ told me taxman wanted X, gave it to him, bailiff landed looking for the money a few weeks later, my biggest regret ever is letting that c### live

Ludwig Wittgenstein

agoodpunt wrote: »

It should be a collective and open EU policy to help poorer economies Ireland are been thrown under the bus here the burden is not been shared.
We need more progressive taxes what about less progressive and more accountability where the money goes we dont even have EU standard health police or a friggin army to show the high taxes already.

Just look at what Greece - one of the poorest countries in Europe - faces with regards to the migrant crisis. Ireland’s experience of asylum seekers is minuscule in comparison.

ThunbergsAreGo

Antares35 wrote: »

We're considering the same. We've a window of a few years before the kids will be old enough to put down roots wth schools, friends etc and we are seriously considering whether we will be in Ireland in 2-3 years. A decision will have to be made before then. Going to see how things pan out the next 18 months but no way in hell am I going to stick around to be penalised for my hard work.

Yeah it's pretty much only family keeping me here, feel like I couldn't deny our parents the grandchildren.

Passing massive tax for vanity projects and whatever the media decide is the next progressive item to push.

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Bas$$$$ told me taxman wanted X, gave it to him, bailiff landed looking for the money a few weeks later, my biggest regret ever is letting that c### live

The accountant stole the money? Did you sue?

tjhook

fvp4 wrote: »

For pensions we should force people to have private pensions, including the public sector. Too late now maybe.

But nothing wrong with universal benefits. Health is a universal benefit.

Pensions is an interesting topic. There is a divide between private and public sector, but it's not as simple as it appears.

There are rumblings that tax relief on pension contributions will be removed/reduced in the coming years. Of course this only would only affect the private sector. It will be difficult to apply it to the public sector because roles such as TDs, judges, gardai build up their pension with relatively few years service. To recognise the value of these pensions and tax notional contributions would be very expensive for the individuals involved. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. The private sector will have to revolt if they are to be treated fairly.

On the other extreme, newer entrants to the public sector receive a pension based on average earnings over their career. That's a less beneficial arrangement - especially when you consider the deductions they have towards those pensions. And their final pension will be inclusive of the state contributory pension (not on top of it). So for a public sector employee on modest pay, their pension might be little more than the state contributory pension, and they won't receive the state contributary pension on top of it. And that's after having a pension deduction from their paycheque throughout their whole career. And I could be mistaken, but I think I heard that the public sector pension deduction continues to be taken from their pension after they've retired?

I wouldn't mind a fresh look being taken at pension costs/reliefs. But it would have to be fair, applied to both private and public sectors alike. And at the same time, maybe rebalance those public sector pensions that are over-generous and those that are unfairly low.

ThunbergsAreGo

Cheerful S wrote: »

The belief among many unemployment benefit is a severe handicap for the taxpayer and the state. But there are plenty of oddities in the figures I can’t quite separate out. Someone receiving 200 a week for unemployment, that’s 800 a month, year to year base time that’s just 9600 across 12 months.

I realize some married people receive more every week than a single person, but just for this estimate everyone got 9600 a year and there 200,000 men/women unemployed country. My estimate is total bill short of 2 billion if my math is right? In that case 21 billion left over the budget 23 billion? There must be abundance of waste or nonsensical wages for people working in this sector to account for this or am I missing something that's cost more?

Housing, medical bills, free legal aid etc

Removing tax relief on pension contributions will surely make the problem worse in the future for little gain now.

The state pension is below the poverty line. Encourage everybody into a pension.

B2021M

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Yeah it's pretty much only family keeping me here, feel like I couldn't deny our parents the grandchildren.

Passing massive tax for vanity projects and whatever the media decide is the next progressive item to push.

Yeah from morning to night the media talk about how more 'resources' are needed for x, y and z. Never a word about where the 'resources' come from or the fact it is taxpayers money.

tjhook

fvp4 wrote: »

Removing tax relief on pension contributions will surely make the problem worse in the future for little gain now.

The state pension is below the poverty line. Encourage everybody into a pension.

I'm pretty sure the plan is to do both. If you force everybody into paying for a pension, then you don't need to incentivise it with tax reliefs.

Our leaders are being dishonest with us. They suggest the answer to the pensions problem is to have everybody contribute to a private pension. But how would that reduce the cost to the state? It wouldn't, by itself. The way it would work is that the state would cut off (or reduce) the state contributory pension for those with their own pensions. They're not telling us that though.

Edit: Did you know that to build up a pension fund large enough to provide a pension equivalent to the state pension, you'd need over €300,000?

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The accountant stole the money? Did you sue?

With what? Claimed it was fees, found out later he was telling everyone's business as well, it was around the time of the crash and a lot of these guys grabbed all they could and ran,
You learn from your mistakes and never go back there,
Would never get involved with anything that involved having to anything to do with accountants again.