ESRI says we need more "progressive" taxes lol

fliball123

lawred2 wrote: »

I don't agree with blunt comparisons whatever direction they work in

I just don't necessarily agree with the contention that private sector employees earn 27% less than their counterparts for the same services in this country.

And I have a rock solid example to hand to prove that. Same services. One public one private. Exact same salary.

Then you have no bother with the public sector taking a cut to the amount that was gained during the 2 rounds of bench marking where this blunt comparison was made so. Either you cant make the comparison and bench marking was a fraud or the comparison can be made and if it can be then PS are paid 27% more. Pick your poison you cant have it both ways.

ednwireland

Deleted User wrote: »

Just have huge oil reserves, bro.

gas reserves :leave them in ground, oh and dont take any tax of the companies that bring it ashore

bobbysands81

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Firstly let's please stop using the word "progressive" in relation to taxes. What we're really talking about is robbing the middle class blind in order to pay for bloated welfare payments and bloated public sector salaries and pensions.


Ireland already has some of the highest marginal tax rates, north of 50% taken off us in the private sector. What really should be happening is those on lower incomes should be paying more taxes. A person earning €20k in Germany pays €4k in tax. Here they pay €1k.



I love how it doesn't even enter their little heads that perhaps public sector pay freezes might be one answer to budget deficits...

Those who have benefitted most from society should pay the most.

The richer need to pay more, the mega rich substantially more and companies based in Ireland need to start paying fairer rates of tax.

Sweet.Science

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Firstly let's please stop using the word "progressive" in relation to taxes. What we're really talking about is robbing the middle class blind in order to pay for bloated welfare payments and bloated public sector salaries and pensions.


Ireland already has some of the highest marginal tax rates, north of 50% taken off us in the private sector. What really should be happening is those on lower incomes should be paying more taxes. A person earning €20k in Germany pays €4k in tax. Here they pay €1k.



I love how it doesn't even enter their little heads that perhaps public sector pay freezes might be one answer to budget deficits...

Can't agree . People are better off not working as it is . Why make it worse .

lawred2

fliball123 wrote: »

Then you have no bother with the public sector taking a cut to the amount that was gained during the 2 rounds of bench marking where this blunt comparison was made so. Either you cant make the comparison and bench marking was a fraud or the comparison can be made and if it can be then PS are paid 27% more. Pick your poison you cant have it both ways.

sure - as long as those taking cuts are benchmarked against salaries paid for similar services in the private sector..

TCM

Fred Cryton wrote:

The public sector are a net cost to the State. A financial burden. Only the private sector generates taxable wealth.

The next time a relative of yours needs a garda, a fire office, a nurse, a dr etc make sure you tell them they are a 'financial burden'
Better still privatise all public services and let everybody pay the full economic cost of all services provided. See how that works out.

mcsean2163

Oos

starkid

Deleted User wrote: »

A single Norwegian person earning 25K/yr pays c.€1,500/yr less than their Irish equivalent.

A single Danish person earning 25K pays c.€2,500 more than their Irish equivalent.

A single Swedish person earning 25K pays c.€500 more than their Irish equivalent.

A single Finnish person earning 25K/yr pays c.€1,000/yr more than their Irish
equivalent.


Ireland pays about €500 below the average of all five countries.



FACT CHECK: UNTRUE

erm not sure where you are getting your figures. A person earning 25k in Denmark pays about 7k in tax. Here i'd pay about €1,478, so i think your fact checking needs fact checking. you've stated it false, even though you've given three examples where the lower incomes pays more. lol. Norway has oil so discount that.

also nice arbitraty figure there. Dig a little deeper and see what a person on lower wages pay. a person earning 18k (which is rare as Denmark is a high wage country) pays taxes. In Germany people as low as 9k pay some tax.

your figures are simply untrue. and the fact you have the balls to paint something as false is classic tactics by smoked salmon socialists here. Christ and people wonder why many many people are pissed off. Can't even read factual information correctly.

B2021M

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Those who have benefitted most from society should pay the most.

The richer need to pay more, the mega rich substantially more and companies based in Ireland need to start paying fairer rates of tax.

How does a person's salary show how they have benefitted from society? Is it not also due to personal effort and skills? (i know luck and other factors can play a part but im talking in general).

shtpEdthePlum

barry181091 wrote: »

We can't have world class services

Fyp

If the health service and the amount of money thrown at it is anything to go off.

ednwireland

ednwireland wrote: »

gas reserves :leave them in ground

Not even remotely comparable. LOL!

God, the state of the posts in this thread. No wonder we're such a basket case.

fliball123

lawred2 wrote: »

sure - as long as those taking cuts are benchmarked against salaries paid for similar services in the private sector..

Well if they are paid 27% more and doing the same comparisons as bench marking back in the naughties where the main reason for bench marking was implemented because the public sector on average were lagging behind the private sector. Some may get a modest pay rise but you can bet we would see a good 10 - 30% cut in what we pay out for public sector pay along with the knock on affect for the ps pensions.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

A single Norwegian person earning 25K/yr pays c.€1,500/yr less than their Irish equivalent.

A single Danish person earning 25K pays c.€2,500 more than their Irish equivalent.

A single Swedish person earning 25K pays c.€500 more than their Irish equivalent.

A single Finnish person earning 25K/yr pays c.€1,000/yr more than their Irish
equivalent.


Ireland pays about €500 below the average of all five countries.



FACT CHECK: UNTRUE

Firstly, including Norway, because of their oil revenue, makes for an inappropriate comparison. Secondly, surely the FACT CHECK is true, as the poster claimed more tax is paid in Scandanavia, and your figures agree?

DataDude

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Those who have benefitted most from society should pay the most.

The richer need to pay more, the mega rich substantially more and companies based in Ireland need to start paying fairer rates of tax.

What would you say is the fair level of tax? All anybody ever proposes on rich people is "more". How much more? What's the appropriate level? 52% isn't enough? They really went after high earners during the period of austerity and none of it has been rolled back - you can only go to the well a finite amount of times.

No doubt if it was put to a an agreed higher level and then more funding was needed down the road the solution would be to "tax the rich..again" "How much?" "...more!"

iColdFusion

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll vote for any party that promises to lower taxes on the middle class. Preferably at the expense of the scrote class.

That's exactly what those in power promised at the last election, lower tax bracket raised to 50k threshold, still waiting for that....

Whatever about direct tax being a pain, the indirect taxes are really painful; sugar tax, alcohol tax, carbon tax, bloody VRT, road tax rates, the list goes on, its a massive drain on your income:mad:

Always annoys me when they say we have the same tax rates as the UK to justify the current system, well they have a more valuable currency, the NHS and no VRT for a start there guy!

starkid

blanch152 wrote: »

Firstly, including Norway, because of their oil revenue, makes for an inappropriate comparison. Secondly, surely the FACT CHECK is true, as the poster claimed more tax is paid in Scandanavia, and your figures agree?

ha yeah exactly.

and people can check Denmark here, i think its accurate. trying to verify with a Danish colleague.

I will say Denmark is a high wage country so its a bit different.

https://dk.neuvoo.com/tax-calculator/?iam=&uet_calculate=calculate&salary=250000&from=year&region=Copenhagen

cgcsb

iColdFusion wrote: »

That's exactly what those in power promised at the last election, lower tax bracket raised to 50k threshold, still waiting for that....

Whatever about direct tax being a pain, the indirect taxes are really painful; sugar tax, alcohol tax, carbon tax, bloody VRT, road tax rates, the list goes on, its a massive drain on your income:mad:

Always annoys me when they say we have the same tax rates as the UK to justify the current system, well they have a more valuable currency, the NHS and no VRT for a start there guy!

Like why does having a more valuable currency matter? The NHS, depending on the region, is most often in a worse state than the HSE.

cgcsb

starkid wrote: »

ha yeah exactly.

and people can check Denmark here, i think its accurate. trying to verify with a Danish colleague.

I will say Denmark is a high wage country so its a bit different.

https://dk.neuvoo.com/tax-calculator/?iam=&uet_calculate=calculate&salary=250000&from=year&region=Copenhagen

Have you been to Denmark? the cost of living is eye watering. A bottle of water in a convenience shop is €5

starkid

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Those who have benefitted most from society should pay the most.

The richer need to pay more, the mega rich substantially more and companies based in Ireland need to start paying fairer rates of tax.

who are "the richer"? Are luas drivers or tube drivers earning 60k plus ..the richer?

or is it just people who fit the narrow false narrative that SF and the rest have painted?

starkid

cgcsb wrote: »

Have you been to Denmark? the cost of living is eye watering. A bottle of water in a convenience shop is €5

Yeah i know.

Thats not the point though. In a truly social democratic country, everybody pays their way, and everybody benefits from that.

thats not what we have here and any move to make it even more unfair will lead to outright revolt, companies moving and people leaving. Why should a person earning 100k pay any more than 41k in tax? A single income 100k family after tax, earns nearly the same as a couple earning the average industrial wage. And SF and others will paint the former as rich. We have people in this thread saying they don't even need to pay mortgages.

as another poster said nuance is needed. No point leaving no money available for people spending etc. But we need bloody balancea and we need left leaning parties being honest here. I would gladly vote for a Danish style social democracy. The society is happier cause everybody is looked after. Here only the poorest and the richest are. Its utterly ludicrous and at breaking point.FFS its not even up for debate.

yrreg0850

Chips Lovell wrote: »

When it comes to taxation, it's quite tricky to compare like with like. There's tendency to focus on just income tax rates without taking into account allowances, credits and, the big one, social security contributions. We've a relatively high rate of income tax compared to a lot of countries, but PRSI contributions are fairly low.

According to the latest OECD figures, the tax wedge for the average Irish worker is well below the OECD average.

And that's just the tax on wages. We get off fairly lightly in terms of property and municipal taxes here:

Norway is only slightly above Ireland in terms of taxation but , they do have "cradle to grave" education and health .
If we were to go to Norway's level would we have such cover???.
I doubt it very much.

iColdFusion

cgcsb wrote: »

Like why does having a more valuable currency matter? The NHS, depending on the region, is most often in a worse state than the HSE.

£50k is a decently higher salary than €50k but the govt seems to ignore that fact when it suits them!

iColdFusion

iColdFusion wrote: »

That's exactly what those in power promised at the last election, lower tax bracket raised to 50k threshold, still waiting for that....

I think something might have happened to put that on hold. Can you guess what that was?

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think something might have happened to put that on hold. Can you guess what that was?

It wouldn't have happened anyway. They've just got a handy excuse now.

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

It wouldn't have happened anyway. They've just got a handy excuse now.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I feel like winning the lotto.

Cheers.

:rolleyes:

Larbre34

Public Sector pay freeze?

You guys. Lol.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I feel like winning the lotto.

Cheers.

:rolleyes:

Odds are about the same alright

Cordell

According to the latest OECD figures, the tax wedge for the average Irish worker is well below the OECD average.

Cool, so why is this a problem? To me it looks like an advantage worth keeping.

Chips Lovell

yrreg0850 wrote: »

Norway is only slightly above Ireland in terms of taxation but , they do have "cradle to grave" education and health .
If we were to go to Norway's level would we have such cover???.
I doubt it very much.

I doubt it too. We'd need to have oil, like Norway.

Geuze

iColdFusion wrote: »

T
Always annoys me when they say we have the same tax rates as the UK to justify the current system, well they have a more valuable currency, the NHS and no VRT for a start there guy!

The UK do not have a more valuable currency than the euro.