ESRI says we need more "progressive" taxes lol

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Why, out of interest? Yes socialist societies in the past have been evil, but that doesn't make everything to do with socialism evil. In the same way that capitalism has some hallmarks of socialism, and that doesn't make it (capitalism) inherently evil.

In an ideal world, true Socialism would be good. We don't live on one, unfortunately. Dictators and fascists have hidden behind the concept of Socialism and equality while lining their pockets and f**king everybody else over for years. We've never actually seen a true socialist society in action.

You, yourself, and society at large have benefitted greatly from socialism and socialist policies for as long as you've been alive. The whole concept of taxation and representation is built upon the foundation that everybody chips in for the greater good, whether that benefits them as an individual or not. Including your beloved property tax.

Police, firefighting, roads, hospitals, social welfare, schools, libraries, museums, galleries, parks, beaches........all paid for through socialist policies. I presume you don't use any of these amenities, you being deeply anti-socialist and all?

im in favour of a flat tax of 20% for everyone including corporations , im also not in favour of pensioners being exempt from DIRT or property or water tax

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

im in favour of a flat tax of 20% for everyone including corporations , im also not in favour of pensioners being exempt from DIRT or property or water tax

Tax is socialism at work. You pay your 20% or whatever, along with everyone else, and that money goes into a pot to pay for everything. Whether you use it or not, you contribute towards the funding for it.

How can you be deeply anti-socialist while championing the payment of taxes at the same time? Its like saying you're a devout vegetarian but eat sausages and rashers at the weekend. It just doesn't make sense.


You have not answered the questions either. If you are such a deep anti-socialist, do you refuse to use the infrastructure, policies and services provided through socialism? Or are you just saying "anti-socialist" because it sounds good in your head?

blackcard

Someone, anyone should pay more taxes. Just not me

Mr. teddywinkles

blackcard wrote: »

Someone, anyone should pay more taxes. Just not me

For what though the same ****e services. What are we getting first class or cattle truck.

RandomViewer

decreds wrote: »

Huge brain drain on the way.

No one high earning individual in their right mind will tolerate this lunacy. The middle class are paying for everything and receiving nothing in return.

If a huge chunk of the squeezed professionals let's see how the country operates with dole heads and fake refugees claiming every benefit under the sun.

We are quickly approaching a situation where the is no middle class, only dole class, lower class and elites. It seems the government is hell bent on destroying this country.

Those so called high earners aren't paid that kind of money anywhere else, A country that pays accountants more than nurses is fuxxxd up

Geuze

sunshine2018 wrote: »

Property tax has got to be the most unfair tax - I’ve already paid tax on the money I used to buy the house
Just because the value of my house had gone up due to supply and demand it does not mean I am earning any more money. Nothing ‘progressive ‘ about it ! Your private principal residence should be exempt from property tax

Quite the opposite.

Property taxes are among the most sensible taxes, superior than other taxes.

That's why they are so common.

lawred2

RandomViewer wrote: »

Those so called high earners aren't paid that kind of money anywhere else, A country that pays accountants more than nurses is fuxxxd up

Every country is fuxked up then by that logic

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Tax is socialism at work. You pay your 20% or whatever, along with everyone else, and that money goes into a pot to pay for everything. Whether you use it or not, you contribute towards the funding for it.

How can you be deeply anti-socialist while championing the payment of taxes at the same time? Its like saying you're a devout vegetarian but eat sausages and rashers at the weekend. It just doesn't make sense.


You have not answered the questions either. If you are such a deep anti-socialist, do you refuse to use the infrastructure, policies and services provided through socialism? Or are you just saying "anti-socialist" because it sounds good in your head?

you make it sound like anyone who is ok with taxes is by definition a socialist ?

Mad_maxx

RandomViewer wrote: »

Those so called high earners aren't paid that kind of money anywhere else, A country that pays accountants more than nurses is fuxxxd up

why ?

Antares35

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Yep. My peers who graduated in 2020/21 are leaving for Portugal, USA, Australia and even the UK. Engineers, computer scientists, top notch intellectuals. There's f*ck all incentive to stay here. I'm headed to Berlin myself in 3 months, and taking all my money with me.

We're considering the same. We've a window of a few years before the kids will be old enough to put down roots wth schools, friends etc and we are seriously considering whether we will be in Ireland in 2-3 years. A decision will have to be made before then. Going to see how things pan out the next 18 months but no way in hell am I going to stick around to be penalised for my hard work.

Geuze

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Tell me is it a coincidence that the only viable investment vehicle in Ireland is property?

Now tell me how many TDs are landlords, or are invested in real estate?

You are dissuaded from investing into stocks, ETFs or any intangible assets in this country, with incredibly heavy taxes up to 52%. But feel free to put solvency in property - A market already owned by - to no ones surprise - the same people who makes market legislations.

Yes, Ireland is very biased towards saving/investing in property.

Many people in their 30s here want to be landlords.

Whereas more people should be starting productive businesses.

RandomViewer

Mad_maxx wrote: »

why ?

Accountant is basically a data entry clerk, €20-24kmax, usually weedy little runt with a moustache, surplus to society but we can't feed them to the crows so he's let do his little job, but Ireland has decided that nerd central is worth more than someone who saves lives and makes the world a better place,

lawred2

RandomViewer wrote: »

Accountant is basically a data entry clerk, €20-24kmax, usually weedy little runt with a moustache, surplus to society but we can't feed them to the crows so he's let do his little job, but Ireland has decided that nerd central is worth more than someone who saves lives and makes the world a better place,

Accountant steal your girlfriend?

RandomViewer

lawred2 wrote: »

Accountant steal your girlfriend?

Stole my money

I really wish they would look at the stealth taxes we pay.



TV License for example. Here are some veeery conservative figures:



To make the math a little easier, lets say there are 25 TV License Inspectors, earning 40k a year. Thats a million a year. 160 euros for a TV License means 6250 people have to pay their license just to pay for the inspectors. Thats colossally inefficient. My estimate of a million doesn't include, mileage, administration, overheads, the true figure could easily be double that.



Why can't the license fee not be taken via normal taxation, thereby negating the need for inspectors, administration, etc.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I really wish they would look at the stealth taxes we pay.



TV License for example. Here are some veeery conservative figures:



To make the math a little easier, lets say there are 25 TV License Inspectors, earning 40k a year. Thats a million a year. 160 euros for a TV License means 6250 people have to pay their license just to pay for the inspectors. Thats colossally inefficient. My estimate of a million doesn't include, mileage, administration, overheads, the true figure could easily be double that.



Why can't the license fee not be taken via normal taxation, thereby negating the need for inspectors, administration, etc.

An Post oversee it , assume someone goes around on quiet days in the sorting office, can see FFG adding TV licence onto VAT, extra 1% to keep Joe Duffy in sour jellies

B2021M

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, Ireland is very biased towards saving/investing in property.

Many people in their 30s here want to be landlords.

Whereas more people should be starting productive businesses.

Absolutely. And people should be investing in productive assets too and not houses.

jester77

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Yep. My peers who graduated in 2020/21 are leaving for Portugal, USA, Australia and even the UK. Engineers, computer scientists, top notch intellectuals. There's f*ck all incentive to stay here. I'm headed to Berlin myself in 3 months, and taking all my money with me.

Be prepared to pay more in tax, mandatory health insurance, property tax, water charges, higher electricity costs, church tax, etc The grass is not greener here. But at least you will see all that money being properly spent.

Cheerful S

The belief among many unemployment benefit is a severe handicap for the taxpayer and the state. But there are plenty of oddities in the figures I can’t quite separate out. Someone receiving 200 a week for unemployment, that’s 800 a month, year to year base time that’s just 9600 across 12 months.

I realize some married people receive more every week than a single person, but just for this estimate everyone got 9600 a year and there 200,000 men/women unemployed country. My estimate is total bill short of 2 billion if my math is right? In that case 21 billion left over the budget 23 billion? There must be abundance of waste or nonsensical wages for people working in this sector to account for this or am I missing something that's cost more?

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Stole my money

Good accountant mightve been able to protect you there buddy

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Accountant is basically a data entry clerk, €20-24kmax, usually weedy little runt with a moustache, surplus to society but we can't feed them to the crows so he's let do his little job, but Ireland has decided that nerd central is worth more than someone who saves lives and makes the world a better place,

LOL. Rattled much?

Larbre34

Who appointed these morons?

You do not take more money out of a struggling economy, you pump the shyt out of it.

Pro-cyclical economic policies are what have effed this place every 15 years like clockwork for the last 60 years, what ESRI are suggesting here is more of it and lumped even further on the coping classes.

**** off.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good accountant mightve been able to protect you there buddy

I would be thinking that all accountants ,f##k it , all accountants , bookkeepers and revenue wa##ers should be fed to seagulls ,

LillySV

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Firstly let's please stop using the word "progressive" in relation to taxes. What we're really talking about is robbing the middle class blind in order to pay for bloated welfare payments and bloated public sector salaries and pensions.


Ireland already has some of the highest marginal tax rates, north of 50% taken off us in the private sector. What really should be happening is those on lower incomes should be paying more taxes. A person earning €20k in Germany pays €4k in tax. Here they pay €1k.



I love how it doesn't even enter their little heads that perhaps public sector pay freezes might be one answer to budget deficits...

Rates are worse now for public sector than they were in 2008... go learn abit before ya open your mouth ... and the boys you need to go for are the self employed and business people in the country ... can claim everything against their business ... pay feck all back ... as evidenced last year when social protection eventually linked the 350 payment to those who had earned over 300 a week... lots of self employed people’s pup rates went down and they were furious ...as they all claim they are only earning 7-8k max ... while living in mansions and driving 2021 q7s and x5s

RandomViewer

Larbre34 wrote: »

Who appointed these morons?

You do not take more money out of a struggling economy, you pump the shyt out of it.

Pro-cyclical economic policies are what have effed this place every 15 years like clockwork for the last 60 years, what ESRI are suggesting here is more of it and lumped even further on the coping classes.

**** off.

Fitzgerald crusty son used to be Head honcho, some tweed jacketed chinless wonder with 1970s hair seems to be holescratcher in chief now

Kingkong

Ive worked in tax for many years in the big 4. Fundamental issues exist in our tax base. Politics won't fix it as it's not an election-winning item. ERSI, Revenue, OCED know exactly whats needed to be done and should be just let get on with it. The tax leakage is huge and we arent letting the smart people paid to look after it do the job. Politics should be kept out of tax base issues

RandomViewer

Kingkong wrote: »

Ive worked in tax for many years in the big 4. Fundamental issues exist in our tax base. Politics won't fix it as it's not an election-winning item. ERSI, Revenue, OCED know exactly whats needed to be done and should be just let get on with it. The tax leakage is huge and we arent letting the smart people paid to look after it do the job. Politics should be kept out of tax base issues

You the guy who didn't cop the dud Lotto ball?

jams100

Allinall wrote: »

"Progressive" in a taxation sense means that those that earn more pay more.

Surely this is a good thing to be aiming for?

There's a point though where your more or less encouraged to not work. That's the problem. If I was offered overtime tomorrow I'd have to think is it worth it as I'm going to be taxed 50%.

Progressive is good but the problem is that we as a country waste too much money.
Most people wouldn't mind paying a small bit more if we thought we were going to get some value from it, but we won't...metro, dart underground, hospitals, prisons, colleges all areas that have seen feck all infrastructure spend despite the high tax the likes of myself and others pay.

Kingkong

RandomViewer wrote: »

You the guy who didn't cop the dud Lotto ball?

I wish

Cheerful S

RulesOfNature wrote: »

This is the propaganda LOL.

That's not what actually happens.

The scale of wealth stretches to the stratosphere, and whenever politicians raise taxes on low six figure earners, its missing the main people who are massively underpaying. The rich, the insanely rich, does not pay their fair share.

There a big variation regards incomes between people. Someone on 142,000 a year, still take home net pay 80,0000 even when taxed at 42 percent. That's still a lot of income to finance a very comfortable luxury lifestyle.. Everybody pretty much works the same hours on average and everybody gives up there time to earn. I think its a bit unfair to go after workers earning 20,000 a year and ask them to pay more tax. Disposable Income for livelihood needs to be recognized here. Things don't change when society accepts class differences.

Obviously everyone working should pay taxes but it needs to be fair based on your employment wage. There a massive problem in this country lower earners enter the 42 percent tax bracket when the go past a certain threshold in income. The government does not take into account that low earners work extra hours to have slightly more pay. Since income already low, that tax on overtime will be felt much more.

Save billions if a full audit of everything was carried out. Was looking at some of the waste.

There a section with 51 million spend "Supporting the Taoiseach work and government". What does he do over 365 days that would cost 51 million a year?