Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Marcusm

Lumen wrote: »

The latest ECDC data in the EU vaccine tracker is:

Vaccine Delivered Administered
Comirnaty 2,855,970 2,477,533
Janssen 163,100 72,001
Moderna 380,400 317,116
Vaxzevria 821,100 839,105
ALL 4,220,570 3,705,755

So we’ve administered more AZ/Vaxzevria that have been delivered. Seems like data integrity is not strong in that report!

Marcusm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

How can they have spare doses for Wednesday week already?

Because they ordered as many as they think they can get away with. In other industries, it’s called subsidy farming. GPs get paid to administer doses (think it’s €25 per dose plus additional €10 per patient). If you were a GP with a large GMS/medical card list and few cash paying probate patients, why wouldn’t you dedicate yourself to vaccination to generate more money. It’s a breach in spirit but, I suspect, it’s either sanctioned by HSE or a blind eye is cast as it fulfills the need to push doses out into arms. However, does it come at the expense of GO clinics for patients? Is this why Emergency departments are suffering large patient attendance.?

Lumen

Marcusm wrote: »

So we’ve administered more AZ/Vaxzevria that have been delivered. Seems like data integrity is not strong in that report!

Well spotted! As far as I know that data is submitted to ECDC by Irish health authorities, and Donnelly has tweeted links to it recently:

https://twitter.com/DonnellyStephen/status/1404468576216653830

It also matches (in the aggregate) that reported in the Irish Times according to Graham's post above.

So we're all drinking from the same well of bad data.

xboxdad

Qrt wrote: »

Considering I’ve been hearing that vaccination has had a good impact on countering long covid symptoms, I think you can relax a bit.

I think we'll only know in a few years or decades. We can't just assume it'll be grand based on a few months of data.

Russman

Lumen wrote: »

The latest ECDC data in the EU vaccine tracker is:

Vaccine Delivered Administered
Comirnaty 2,855,970 2,477,533
Janssen 163,100 72,001
Moderna 380,400 317,116
Vaxzevria 821,100 839,105
ALL 4,220,570 3,705,755

Its such a shame about those 90k Janssen doses if they go unused.

Graham

Russman wrote: »

Its such a shame about those 90k Janssen doses if they go unused.

Aren't a large proportion of them going out to pharmacies?

Russman

Graham wrote: »

Aren't a large proportion of them going out to pharmacies?

That's what I thought, there was talk of c140k people in their 50s still unvaccinated, but I think up to a day or two ago only 2,750 doses were administered by pharmacies. I was surprised to see that number so low tbh.

snowstorm445

Booked my first jab here in Belgium for next Tuesday morning. 25yo, no underlying conditions etc. The second jab is booked for the end of July so will hopefully be fully covered before going home to visit family in Ireland in August, which is a huge relief.

40, South Dublin. Nada.

After seeing all the posts here about GPs still doing vaccines, I decided to call mine on the off chance.

Apparently they haven't done covid vaccines at all, not even for the elderly and at risk groups. I'm surprised by that, I would have though every GP should be doing that much at a minimum.

Russman

Flying Fox wrote: »

After seeing all the posts here about GPs still doing vaccines, I decided to call mine on the off chance.

Apparently they haven't done covid vaccines at all, not even for the elderly and at risk groups. I'm surprised by that, I would have though every GP should be doing that much at a minimum.

I think those practices that didn't or that weren't big enough to run their own clinics sent their patients to the MVCs early on. A family friend 80+ got his jab in the Helix back in Feb/Mar via his GP as the practice wasn't the required size.

JDD

So I've had my first dose, and expecting a second dose around 5-10th July. Say they have delivery or capacity delays and 2nd dose gets pushed out to 5 or 6 weeks between doses. Can I ring my GP and see if he'll give me a second dose? Where would I stand on getting a full vaccine passport then?

Russman

Russman wrote: »

I think those practices that didn't or that weren't big enough to run their own clinics sent their patients to the MVCs early on. A family friend 80+ got his jab in the Helix back in Feb/Mar via his GP as the practice wasn't the required size.

That might explain it, it's pretty small.

ixoy

Flying Fox wrote: »

That might explain it, it's pretty small.

It's based on a percentage of the patients (or was) over a certain age as even large practices, in areas with a younger catchment, were sending them to MVCs.

duffman13

Russman wrote: »

That's what I thought, there was talk of c140k people in their 50s still unvaccinated, but I think up to a day or two ago only 2,750 doses were administered by pharmacies. I was surprised to see that number so low tbh.

Very difficult to get 5 people in a specific area lined up over 50. The demand isn't there considering a lot of these people decided not to register for whatever reason. The cohort was always going to be challenging, each pharmacy recieved 50 doses. I know a couple who used all 50 and couldn't get anymore and others who haven't been able to line up 5.

You've also got the issue of some of these people being vaccine hesitant, making an appointment and not turning up also. It's a mopping up exercise which won't greatly add to the numbers

Tyrone212

The WHO has repeated that citizens are not advised to take painkillers before a jab as it might impact the efficacy of the vaccine.

"Taking painkillers such as paracetamol before receiving the COVID-19 vaccine to prevent side effects is not recommended," said a spokesperson.

"This is because it is not known how painkillers may affect how well the vaccine works."

fun loving criminal

Does anyone understand what's happening in Israel? They seem to be imposing restrictions again. Or bringing in mask wearing again and that's 10 days after lifting mask wearing.

They seem to have low enough cases for their population but quick Google mentioned spread in schools. Is that the main setting with spread now?

Stheno

fun loving criminal wrote: »

Does anyone understand what's happening in Israel? They seem to be imposing restrictions again. Or bringing in mask wearing again and that's 10 days after lifting mask wearing.

They seem to have low enough cases for their population but quick Google mentioned spread in schools. Is that the main setting with spread now?

They are seeing spread of Delta from travellers and in schools so have brought back wearing masks indoors

ACitizenErased

fun loving criminal wrote: »

Does anyone understand what's happening in Israel? They seem to be imposing restrictions again. Or bringing in mask wearing again and that's 10 days after lifting mask wearing.

They seem to have low enough cases for their population but quick Google mentioned spread in schools. Is that the main setting with spread now?

Mostly among young people yes. Have to remember that most countries have passed out Israel with first doses, we’re even higher than them at this stage. They’ve significant vaccine hesitancy (one would assume for religious reasons) so this rise in cases is sort of expected.

fun loving criminal

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Mostly among young people yes. Have to remember that most countries have passed out Israel with first doses, we’re even higher than them at this stage. They’ve significant vaccine hesitancy (one would assume for religious reasons) so this rise in cases is sort of expected.

Ok. Thanks. Vaccines alone won't bring an end to all this if people don't get their shots, so what can countries do with people who are hesitant?

seamus

fun loving criminal wrote: »

Does anyone understand what's happening in Israel? They seem to be imposing restrictions again. Or bringing in mask wearing again and that's 10 days after lifting mask wearing.

They seem to have low enough cases for their population but quick Google mentioned spread in schools. Is that the main setting with spread now?

Israel effectively paused their vaccination programme when they got to around 60% fully vaccinated.

Thing is, Israel are actually carrying out a whole-population experiment to see what works and what doesn't. Cases fell off a cliff at 60%, so they stopped vaccinating, to see what happens next.

They've started experience exponential case growth in the last two weeks after lifting the more basic guidelines, so they're moving back with them.

It's no real biggie; they're re-imposing the least intrusive measures like masks, but they still have 40% of their population unvaccinated, so they're vulnerable.

trellheim

I have had to reschedule No.2 shot . If you reply "New" to the text, does anyone know how long before you get the next appointment ?

Hmmzis

seamus wrote: »

Israel effectively paused their vaccination programme when they got to around 60% fully vaccinated.

Thing is, Israel are actually carrying out a whole-population experiment to see what works and what doesn't. Cases fell off a cliff at 60%, so they stopped vaccinating, to see what happens next.

They've started experience exponential case growth in the last two weeks after lifting the more basic guidelines, so they're moving back with them.

It's no real biggie; they're re-imposing the least intrusive measures like masks, but they still have 40% of their population unvaccinated, so they're vulnerable.

It's not that they stopped the campaign outright, they simply ran out of people going for jabs. With the recent uptick in cases among students there is also a slight uptick in jab uptake (at least there's that).

If whole social layers of a society have not been vaccinated it was just a matter of time for an outbreak to happen. Dropping the mask mandate could have just accelerated that.

Tyrone212

"Israel's coronavirus czar Dr. Nahman Ash said Thursday that Israel will reinstate its indoor mask mandate beginning Sunday, in light of the recent rise in coronavirus cases across Israel. Ash said that the government is working on bringing more Pfizer vaccines to Israel. If Israel is unsuccessful in attaining new vaccines, it will run out in July, when Israel's store of vaccines is set to expire.

Ash added that Israel is investigating new "technological tools" to enforce coronavirus quarantines, citing Israel's previous attempts to employ electronic tracking bracelets. "We will bring forward new proposals in the technological arena. The Shin Bet tracking did not deal with enforcing quarantine, and so, for the time being, we don't plan on implementing it," Ash said.

Despite the dangers of the new COVID variants, the government doesn't plan to prohibit Israelis from leaving and entering the country, Ash said. "We are trying to avoid that (scenario) by testing and isolating" people, he said"

Turtwig

Looking at the contact tracing reports in Australia (yes people lie but there's an ugly trend) delta is way more infectious. PHE analysis also supports this.
I wonder if this alters risk benefit for the viral vectors in younger cohorts. Be interesting to see what MHRA and EMA state in their updated reviews. Maybe NIAC will revisit their advice?

fun loving criminal

seamus wrote: »

Israel effectively paused their vaccination programme when they got to around 60% fully vaccinated.

Thing is, Israel are actually carrying out a whole-population experiment to see what works and what doesn't. Cases fell off a cliff at 60%, so they stopped vaccinating, to see what happens next.

They've started experience exponential case growth in the last two weeks after lifting the more basic guidelines, so they're moving back with them.

It's no real biggie; they're re-imposing the least intrusive measures like masks, but they still have 40% of their population unvaccinated, so they're vulnerable.

Where will this leave us come September? We're not going to have young people vaccinated by the time schools and colleges open again.

xboxdad

Turtwig wrote: »

Looking at the contact tracing reports in Australia (yes people lie but there's an ugly trend) delta is way more infectious. PHE analysis also supports this.
I wonder if this alters risk benefit for the viral vectors in younger cohorts. Be interesting to see what MHRA and EMA state in their updated reviews. Maybe NIAC will revisit their advice?

I'm wondering why we need Israel's example to tell how Delta affects and spreads amongst children?
Could we not see that by looking at India itself (or the UK) where Delta was rampant way earlier?

Wolf359f

Turtwig wrote: »

Looking at the contact tracing reports in Australia (yes people lie but there's an ugly trend) delta is way more infectious. PHE analysis also supports this.
I wonder if this alters risk benefit for the viral vectors in younger cohorts. Be interesting to see what MHRA and EMA state in their updated reviews. Maybe NIAC will revisit their advice?

I think that's the plan. The CMO wrote to NIAC to explore that option. The risk benefit has certainly changed from a risk of infection point of view.
If Delta causes more severe illness, that would tip AZ & J&J more in the benefit rather than risk. No evidence it causes more severe illness. Just needed to mention that.

keno-daytrader

Wolf359f wrote: »

I think that's the plan. The CMO wrote to NIAC to explore that option. The risk benefit has certainly changed from a risk of infection point of view.
If Delta causes more severe illness, that would tip AZ & J&J more in the benefit rather than risk. No evidence it causes more severe illness. Just needed to mention that.

The problem there is NIAC, will likely take 4 weeks to make a decision, and you can bet it will be ultra conservative so no blame can be laid on them.

Turtwig

Wolf359f wrote: »

I think that's the plan. The CMO wrote to NIAC to explore that option. The risk benefit has certainly changed from a risk of infection point of view.
If Delta causes more severe illness, that would tip AZ & J&J more in the benefit rather than risk. No evidence it causes more severe illness. Just needed to mention that.

PHE indicated that hospitalisation may be twice as likely as alpha in the unvaccinated. I don't know if they've refined that further or withdrawn it. Anyone know?