Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Wolf359f

eoinbn wrote: »

It is appearing in a lot of the German media but I cannot see it elsewhere.
They seem to be increasing the amount that is going to be delivered and also are moving some of it to July and August.
We were expecting 170k in July, 250k in August and 1m in September.
If the reports are correct we can expect 320k in July, 650k in August and 880k in September.
The July and August figures are the important ones as that alone would give us more than enough to vaccinate all adults.

Is there any Irish source with an up to date figure for all the vaccines we've actually ordered?

revelman

Quite a bizarre article from RTE.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0626/1231449-covid-ireland/

I don’t know if there is an issue with the reporting or the expert being quoted or both.

Professor of Experimental Immunology Kingston Mills said that indoor dining can reopen next week, but only with strict guidelines around who can go into pubs and restaurants.

Am I missing something. Does this professor determine if restaurants can open?

Also:

Speaking on RTÉ's Brendan O'Connor show, Prof Mills said: "People in their 60s in Ireland who have had one dose of the AstraZenca vaccine are still vulnerable, so they can't go to a restaurant.

"And if they're going to be forced to get a second dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine, it's not just the over 60s there is also vulnerable people in the younger age groups and some people in the 50 to 60 age group.

Again, how is he determining whether people with one dose of AZ can or can’t go to a restaurant? And what is this about being “forced” to get a second dose?

Maybe these quotes are being taken out of context but I find this article quite bizarre.

Micky 32

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1408828214626197507?s=21

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1408754621405872129?s=21

timsey tiger

Wolf359f wrote: »

So the current vaccines are more effective against hospitalisation (with both single and double doses) with Delta compared to Alpha?

There is so much detail in that report, that not breaking down the figures for the different vaccines they have makes it seem like they are trying to not highlight something.

revelman

timsey tiger wrote: »

There is so much detail in that report, that not breaking down the figures for the different vaccines they have makes it seem like they are trying to not highlight something.

It follows on from their report last week.

Two doses of AZ is 92% effective at preventing hospitalisation while Pfizer is 96%.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/v...-delta-variant

Polar101

I was wondering, if it's decided that a booster vaccine is needed for "everyone" next winter/spring, how are the mass vaccinations going to be done? Right now they're using universities, city halls and the like 7 days a week, but you'd think a lot of those spaces will be used for their original purposes eventually, so will the necessary infrastructure be available for vaccinations?

Wolf359f

Polar101 wrote: »

I was wondering, if it's decided that a booster vaccine is needed for "everyone" next winter/spring, how are the mass vaccinations going to be done? Right now they're using universities, city halls and the like 7 days a week, but you'd think a lot of those spaces will be used for their original purposes eventually, so will the necessary infrastructure be available for vaccinations?

If a booster is needed for everyone, it will depend on why. Assuming it's non related to a new variant and more down to immunity reducing over time (those in the trials are the canary in the coal mine), then there would not be as big an urgency.

So there's no problem rolling boosters out to nursing homes and let gp's work it like they do the flu vaccine, same for pharmacies.

A new vaccine evading variant would be completely different. Assuming it completely evades T cells etc...

FutureGuy

Is it possible to move the time of a vaccine to earlier in the same day?

Caquas

duffman13 wrote: »

I have no idea how this is relevant to what you said and in fact it was absolutely the correct call to do an age based roll out. Thankfully we didn't bow down to unions on it.

Forget the "reopening scheme" as you call it. In March/April whatever vaccine you got first was the best one for anyone in an at risk category. Travel wasn't given a consideration at the time and rightly so.

Your last line literally says "with the benefit of hindsight but it should have been foreseeable" It's simple revisionism. If we hadn't of used those AZ dose (I got one) we would had close to 400,000 less people fully vaccinated and that would be nearly 600,000 by mid July.

It was the right decision at the time. It was still correct at end of May and I'd actually advocate its still the right decision now as Delta prevelance is still low and that cohort will be fully vaxxed by early July and 100,000s of others have gotten doses as a result.

You accuse me of revisionism but you are rewriting history when the ink is barely dry.

Forget the reopening scheme? That was the core of the national response to the pandemic.

Travel wasn't a consideration? What about the 5-km or 10km or county limits? Everyone was talking about the prospect of summer holidays abroad.

Whatever vaccine you got was the best for the at risk categories? Nonsense, that's my basic point with Fintan O'Toole is repeating in today's IT. Many older people are still awaiting their second AZ jab - if they waited they would now have immunity.

There is nothing illogical or "revisionist" in acknowledging that we have the benefit of hindsight but that the issue should be have been foreseen by those making the decisions.

You say it was "the right decision at the time". Do you mean that the decision-makers couldn't have foreseen that AZ jabs meant a 12 week wait which reversed their carefully laid plans? Or do you mean that it is right that older people are waiting longer?

Leftwaffe

When will they be taking bookings for 30-35 year olds? Or has that happened already?

Strazdas

Sunday Times reports that Ireland could be left with as many as 400,000 unused AstraZeneca doses in the month of July unless it changes the age cohorts.

I'd say there might be a fair bit of pressure on NIAC at this point.

ACitizenErased

Plenty of us on here said this would happen and were shouted down. We should never have stopped using AZ/J&J for younger groups.

PhoenixParker

Give the AZ to the pharmacies, let anyone who wants it get AZ there or wait for Moderna/Pfizer from the MVCs.

Strazdas

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Plenty of us on here said this would happen and were shouted down. We should never have stopped using AZ/J&J for younger groups.

I think it would be intolerable to have 400k doses on the shelves and not used, not with loads of people in the country still awaiting a first dose.

astrofool

Caquas wrote: »

You accuse me of revisionism but you are rewriting history when the ink is barely dry.

Forget the reopening scheme? That was the core of the national response to the pandemic.

No, the core of the national response was to reduce deaths and prevent the health system being overloaded.

Caquas wrote: »

Travel wasn't a consideration? What about the 5-km or 10km or county limits? Everyone was talking about the prospect of summer holidays abroad.

This was to reduce the opportunity for the virus to spread, same reason international travel was reduced, the vaccine program was designed to save lives, not to allow people to travel again, that is a side effect of the vaccine program.

Caquas wrote: »

Whatever vaccine you got was the best for the at risk categories? Nonsense, that's my basic point with Fintan O'Toole is repeating in today's IT. Many older people are still awaiting their second AZ jab - if they waited they would now have immunity.

As said earlier, and ignored by you for whatever reason, 1 dose of the vaccines gives good protection, the reason for the second dose is for longevity and improved efficacy, however your chance of dying is greatly reduced after 1 vaccine dose. Every Pfizer dose given to an older person is stretching out the time it takes to vaccinate everyone, everyone who got AZ will have a second dose by mid July before a lot of the population has even got a first dose.

Caquas wrote: »

There is nothing illogical or "revisionist" in acknowledging that we have the benefit of hindsight but that the issue should be have been foreseen by those making the decisions.

You say it was "the right decision at the time". Do you mean that the decision-makers couldn't have foreseen that AZ jabs meant a 12 week wait which reversed their carefully laid plans? Or do you mean that it is right that older people are waiting longer?

Look, there's a captain hindsight meme you can go wild with, your statement that with the benefit of hindsight we should have had better foresight is a complete nonsense statement.

However, even with hindsight, the decisions made were correct at the time they were made.

If an older person had waited, their option would be to get J&J at the pharmacy and also means being completely vulnerable to the virus in the intervening weeks.

giveitholly

I presume we have no idea how many J&J will be unused?

ACitizenErased

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Give the AZ to the pharmacies, let anyone who wants it get AZ there or wait for Moderna/Pfizer from the MVCs.

This is what should have happened day 1. NIAC completely dropped the ball.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Plenty of us on here said this would happen and were shouted down. We should never have stopped using AZ/J&J for younger groups.

Flagged it ages ago when all this was being announced and the replies were oh it'll only delay the rollout by a week or two.... safe to say that wasn't and won't be the case.

stephenjmcd

Strazdas wrote: »

I think it would be intolerable to have 400k doses on the shelves and not used, not with loads of people in the country still awaiting a first dose.

This was foreseen a long time ago and a few of us here said they should have planned for it at that time, not this cross that bridge when it comes to it nonsense that we're seeing now

WoollyRedHat

stephenjmcd wrote: »

This was foreseen a long time ago and a few of us here said they should have planned for it at that time, not this cross that bridge when it comes to it nonsense that we're seeing now

I agree but I believe the decision will be made to grant authorisation of the vaccine to the 20s and 30s age bracket, with TH now pushing for it and NIAC never unequivocally ruled it out, it was restriction based on the time period.

Strazdas

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I agree but I believe the decision will be made to grant authorisation of the vaccine to the 20s and 30s age bracket, with TH now pushing for it and NIAC never unequivocally ruled it out, it was restriction based on the time period.

Also, the Delta variant has really shaken things up. If that didn't exist, they could give reasons for not using AZ, but now there is huge pressure to speed up vaccinations.

WoollyRedHat

Strazdas wrote: »

Also, the Delta variant has really shaken things up. If that didn't exist, they could give reasons for not using AZ, but now there is huge pressure to speed up vaccinations.

Exactly this.

Tyrone212

The thing is how many younger people are going to want AstraZeneca now when you have to wait 8 weeks for the second dose. If it got going in July they'd be waiting until September for their second dose. That's just reality whether you'd personally take it yourself or not.

The next cohort is 30-34 how many of them want to wait double time now they're so close. Not many. Lots of younger people want to go on foreign holidays restriction free asap. Az kills that chance for the rest of the summer.

thebaz

Strazdas wrote: »

I'd say there might be a fair bit of pressure on NIAC at this point.

Hopefully - even one does of AZ increases protection against Delta by at least 30 % - Give people the choice - at least

ImDave

Leftwaffe wrote: »

When will they be taking bookings for 30-35 year olds? Or has that happened already?

Not open for registration through the portal yet (35 and up is, next group is 30-34). Paul Reid/HSE on Thursday refused to speculate on when registration will open for 30-34. Not sure if there’s been any update since then.

Seeing appointments going out in many centres for those in 35-39 cohort the last few days gives me hope we may see it open late next week but hard to call. A fairly high proportion of the 30-39 age bracket have already got at least one dose (25% was reported this week from being health care workers, Cohort 4/7, done by GP etc.) so might get through it quicker than first thought.

Wolf359f

thebaz wrote: »

Hopefully - even one does of AZ increases protection against Delta by at least 30 % - Give people the choice - at least

But those not at risk of Covid will not (for the most part) take AZ knowing they have hate to wait 8 weeks for their travel passport.
They most likely will accept the small risk AZ has, but wont accept having to wait an additional 4 weeks to travel abroad. J&J would probably be snapped up in that cohort, well before Pfizer/Moderna and certainly well before AZ

Strazdas

Wolf359f wrote: »

But those not at risk of Covid will not (for the most part) take AZ knowing they have hate to wait 8 weeks for their travel passport.
They most likely will accept the small risk AZ has, but wont accept having to wait an additional 4 weeks to travel abroad. J&J would probably be snapped up in that cohort, well before Pfizer/Moderna and certainly well before AZ

Let's wait and see - they could be offered an mRNA vaccine as their second dose or the AZ second dose could be brought forward even further.

duffman13

Polar101 wrote: »

I was wondering, if it's decided that a booster vaccine is needed for "everyone" next winter/spring, how are the mass vaccinations going to be done? Right now they're using universities, city halls and the like 7 days a week, but you'd think a lot of those spaces will be used for their original purposes eventually, so will the necessary infrastructure be available for vaccinations?

Doctors and Pharmacists in the height of the pandemic delivered 1.4million flu vaccines over 8-10 weeks all while being massively constrained by supplies. There is capacity to do boosters through them but they'd likely take 6 months to complete a single dose booster cycle for the adult population. Pharmacies in particular with the right support could scale up massively

duffman13

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I see pharmacies can soon offer the 1 dose Janssen vaccine to people. Do they verify if you've already had another vaccine, or can you 'double up' ?

Edit: I see on one site that they are "asking" people not to register if they have already had any previous dose of another vaccine, as stocks are limited. But not sure if there is verification here.

It's available in pharmacies the last two weeks if your over 50. They do register you through a portal which identifies if you have been previously vaccinated

Ficheall

Tyrone212 wrote: »

The thing is how many younger people are going to want AstraZeneca now when you have to wait 8 weeks for the second dose. If it got going in July they'd be waiting until September for their second dose. That's just reality whether you'd personally take it yourself or not.

People in their twenties would be quicker getting AZ, I suspect.