Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Padre_Pio

Skygord wrote: »

A lot of people still awaiting their 2nd dose in age group 60-69, and cohort 7 (not sure if cohort 4 is completed as we don't have the data). By definition, these are our most vulnerable, and we won't have completed their 2nd doses for about 3 more weeks.

How is someone getting their first dose of Pfizer from a HCP delaying someone else from getting their second dose of AZ at a vaccination centre?

It's a nonsense statement at this stage. It would have been relevant 6 months ago, but not now.

Skygord

Padre_Pio wrote: »

How is someone getting their first dose of Pfizer from a HCP delaying someone else from getting their second dose of AZ at a vaccination centre?

It's a nonsense statement at this stage. It would have been relevant 6 months ago, but not now.

You asked

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Who's vulnerable that still needs to get vaccinated?

I answered. And now expanding...many of our most vulnerable in cohorts 4 and 7 received AZ, and are awaiting their 2nd dose. Only when they are fully vaccinated can we say "we have vaccinated our most vulnerable".

Padre_Pio

Skygord wrote: »

You asked

I answered. And now expanding...many of our most vulnerable in cohorts 4 and 7 received AZ, and are awaiting their 2nd dose. Only when they are fully vaccinated can we say "we have vaccinated our most vulnerable".

Context: the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.

This was the original comment:

MyUnicornWorld wrote: »

The case I mentioned was not a GP. It was a vaccination in a clinic in their local hospital because they have a friend who works there.
And yes of course it is skipping the queue. They were vaccinated weeks, even months ahead of most people in their age cohort, not because they are vulnerable but because they have a friend who works in a vaccination clinic.
Personally I do not think this is fair but it is quite typical of how things are done in Ireland. And people are willing to accept it.

And I asked "who is vunerable?" in relation to someone getting their first vaccine dose ahead of someone else getting their first vaccine dose.

Why are you bringing 60 year olds waiting on their second dose?
What does that have to do with anything?

Skygord

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Context: the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.

This was the original comment:


And I asked "who is vunerable?" in relation to someone getting their first vaccine dose ahead of someone else getting their first vaccine dose.

Why are you bringing 60 year olds waiting on their second dose?
What does that have to do with anything?

Ah OK. Maybe it's just a result of me becoming annoyed of people saying "the vulnerable are done".

My comment was out of context of your discussion with the other poster, sorry for that.

Beasty

Threads merged

MyUnicornWorld

muddypuppy wrote: »

I'm honestly not against moving to a "first-come first-serve" method now that we have vaccinated pretty much all the people that are at risk. But to me it doesn't seem so fair that you get one if you're in luck that your GP does it (or have a GP at all, I'm sure many young people never even seen one). I would prefer for the MCV to also just open to everyone.
I have a colleague who is (according to him, I don't know the details) cohort 7 but still waiting for example. He called 3-4 GPs but didn't find any that would vaccinate him, and now he's waiting for the MCVs. Reading here it got a lot better in the past weeks, but there are still many GPs not doing anything for them or that have just started that

Rolling out by age is the fairest system. The current situation of people getting it from their GP or a friend in a clinic is not fair because many GPs are only giving it the vulnerable and many people do not have a friend who works in a vaccination clinic. Also many many people are not aware they can get it from a GP.

MerlinSouthDub

Skygord wrote: »

A lot of people still awaiting their 2nd dose in age group 60-69, and cohort 7 (not sure if cohort 4 is completed as we don't have the data). By definition, these are our most vulnerable, and we won't have completed their 2nd doses for about 3 more weeks.

Their first doses give them 70% protection from hospitalisation. Not bad at all. If they so wish, the over 60s can avoid meeting others for literally a couple of weeks until they get their second dose. Not a big ask, compared to what young people have been asked to do over the last 15 months (ps - I do not qualify as a young person)

RavenBea17b

So, good news indeed. The study has shown what was being discussed a few days ago and confirms the stronger T-cell production of AZ & Pfizer and antibodies Pfizer and AZ.
Each step of the Covid journey is evolving, we learn more each day.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57636356

robinbird

MyUnicornWorld wrote: »

muddypuppy wrote: »

Rolling out by age is the fairest system. The current situation of people getting it from their GP or a friend in a clinic is not fair because many GPs are only giving it the vulnerable and many people do not have a friend who works in a vaccination clinic. Also many many people are not aware they can get it from a GP.

Age based rollout is the fairest. However the MVCs are at capacity. That's why GPs are being used. And given the numbers and need to use full vials it's not practical to restrict them to who they can give it to. Everyone in their 20s that gets it though GP is one less for the MVCs to get through..
That's why only 200,000 out of 400,000 registered for 36-39 through MVCs..

robinbird

ddarcy wrote: »

If it makes you feel any better, I’m at 14 weeks today. Still no second appointment. I should be classed in group 7…

You don't get a second appointment for Jansen...

PTH2009

Any sign of the registration opening for 30-34 ?

ImDave

PTH2009 wrote: »

Any sign of the registration opening for 30-34 ?

Haven't heard anything but I'm taking a guess at mid-late next week. Urban areas may be slower getting through the 35-39 but based on seeing appointments for MVCs in less urban areas going out since last week for the 35-39 group, they may be ready to start 30-34 soon-ish.

robinbird

ImDave wrote: »

Haven't heard anything but I'm taking a guess at mid-late next week. Urban areas may be slower getting through the 35-39 but based on seeing appointments for MVCs in less urban areas going out since last week for the 35-39 group, they may be ready to start 30-34 soon-ish.

I'd say sooner. Only 200k 35-39s registered so maybe next Monday.

stephenjmcd

NIAC recommending a 4 week gap for AZ now

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/1409579406113247235?s=19

"Sources suggested that Ireland may need to invoke an emergency or special exemption mechanism to make this move, because the European Medicines Agency authorisation for the second AstraZeneca jab currently specifies 56 days, or eight weeks."

Not going to make much difference for the 60-69 cohort they'll all get it in the next 3 weeks anyway. Could help if the age limit is dropped back

robinbird

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NIAC recommending a 4 week gap for AZ now

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/1409579406113247235?s=19

"Sources suggested that Ireland may need to invoke an emergency or special exemption mechanism to make this move, because the European Medicines Agency authorisation for the second AstraZeneca jab currently specifies 56 days, or eight weeks."

Not going to make much difference for the 60-69 cohort they'll all get it in the next 3 weeks anyway. Could help if the age limit is dropped back

Bizzare, unnecessary and scientifically dodgy. The longer the gap the higher the efficacy. Keep it at 8 weeks and they will all be done within a few weeks anyway.

Stheno

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NIAC recommending a 4 week gap for AZ now

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/1409579406113247235?s=19

"Sources suggested that Ireland may need to invoke an emergency or special exemption mechanism to make this move, because the European Medicines Agency authorisation for the second AstraZeneca jab currently specifies 56 days, or eight weeks."

Not going to make much difference for the 60-69 cohort they'll all get it in the next 3 weeks anyway. Could help if the age limit is dropped back

Or they could mix doses? 1 AZ then Pfizer four weeks later like Germany and Spain?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57636356

stephenjmcd

Stheno wrote: »

Or they could mix doses? 1 AZ then Pfizer four weeks later like Germany and Spain?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57636356

No mention of it being recommended at the moment anyway

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NIAC recommending a 4 week gap for AZ now

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/1409579406113247235?s=19

"Sources suggested that Ireland may need to invoke an emergency or special exemption mechanism to make this move, because the European Medicines Agency authorisation for the second AstraZeneca jab currently specifies 56 days, or eight weeks."

Not going to make much difference for the 60-69 cohort they'll all get it in the next 3 weeks anyway. Could help if the age limit is dropped back

Paves the way for no vaccines to go to waste.

Mixing the 2 vaccines up AZ then Pfzier might have been a better strategy in terms of efficacy.

I got second AZ dose recently with 10 week gap.

I dont think I would have liked only a four week gap based on previous studies.

In fairness it is a pandemic where there is no perfect solutions.

It may be all of the vaccines (mrna inc.) would be more beneficial with 6 months gap apart between doses, but situation is too fluid atm.

Vaccines are needed in arms now.

Postmortem's afterwards.

The mixing strategy downsides are:

Less trials for mixing.
Suggested to people AZ is less good.
More people exposed to blood clot risks.
Less people getting two shots of pzfier.

Klonker

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NIAC recommending a 4 week gap for AZ now

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/1409579406113247235?s=19

"Sources suggested that Ireland may need to invoke an emergency or special exemption mechanism to make this move, because the European Medicines Agency authorisation for the second AstraZeneca jab currently specifies 56 days, or eight weeks."

Not going to make much difference for the 60-69 cohort they'll all get it in the next 3 weeks anyway. Could help if the age limit is dropped back

NIAC are a joke. No age limits given by EMA for AZ and J&J yet NIAC give some. EMA say 8 weeks shortest and goes with 4 weeks. They're all over the shop. Anyway it'll make no difference unless they allow for under 60s.

Wolf359f

robinbird wrote: »

Bizzare, unnecessary and scientifically dodgy. The longer the gap the higher the efficacy. Keep it at 8 weeks and they will all be done within a few weeks anyway.

The US trial was done with a 4 week dosing gap (I'm not sure about other trials), I'm not sure how you class that as scientifically dodgy?

A 4 week gap makes it more appealing to people (assuming the age restrictions are lowered)

robinbird

robinbird wrote: »

Bizzare, unnecessary and scientifically dodgy. The longer the gap the higher the efficacy. Keep it at 8 weeks and they will all be done within a few weeks anyway.

Its a pandemic.

We dont have time to wait months and we have lots of supply of AZ in next few months.

AZ takes 4-5 weeks to bake per dose.

MRNA 2-3 weeks to bake per dose.

Its not that ridiculous given our current circumstances.

Its all about supply and demand.

Younger cohorts one dose of anything will take massive edge off covid anyhow.

This strategy maximises a greater amount of people double dosed as quickly as possible.

Also the blood clot risk of AZ is non existent in second dose, so mixing strategy not good for blood clot risks in population.

They are probably saying "why expose more people to mostly in first dose blood clot risk (AZ) and myocarditis risk (mrna) mostly in second dose to people not paticulary vulnerable to covid". Mixing strategy maximises young peoples risk of severe side effects that are not at paticulary high risk from covid in the first instance.

Amirani

stephenjmcd wrote: »

NIAC recommending a 4 week gap for AZ now

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/1409579406113247235?s=19

"Sources suggested that Ireland may need to invoke an emergency or special exemption mechanism to make this move, because the European Medicines Agency authorisation for the second AstraZeneca jab currently specifies 56 days, or eight weeks."

Not going to make much difference for the 60-69 cohort they'll all get it in the next 3 weeks anyway. Could help if the age limit is dropped back

EMA says 4-12 weeks on their website for AstraZeneca conditional market approval: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/vaxzevria-previously-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca

funnydoggy

I'd trust NIAC on this one. They're super cautious by default - the 4 week interval must be OK for them to sign off on it.

Also, speed trumps perfection every time!

stephenjmcd

Another journalist saying they've given the green light regarding age restrictions

https://twitter.com/christinafinn8/status/1409586228337385489?s=19

funnydoggy

****ing hope so, that'd be excellent!

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Another journalist saying they've given the green light regarding age restrictions

https://twitter.com/christinafinn8/status/1409586228337385489?s=19

And to that J&J

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1409586450060902401?s=19

ddarcy

robinbird wrote: »

You don't get a second appointment for Jansen...

I got AZ in March.

Although speaking of Jansen, people in the US are getting a MRNA booster for it as they aren’t sure they are protected from Delta. Seems to be making the rounds today in the US media anyways. Nothing official from the FDA yet.

Stheno

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And to that J&J

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1409586450060902401?s=19

Thats good news

MerlinSouthDub

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And to that J&J

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1409586450060902401?s=19

Great. Though I'd be even happier if they said ok to mix mRNA and AZ!

stephenjmcd

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Great. Though I'd be even happier if they said ok to mix mRNA and AZ!

That would be a supply call really. We've enough dose 2 of mRNA to do as it is given the supply reduction through July.

It'll speed up the younger ages now