Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

“The case-fatality rate for Delta (0.3%) at this time appears to be lower than that for Alpha (2%)". Per Cillian De Gascun


Vaccine effectiveness or weaker strain or both?

Nigel Fairservice

TonyMaloney wrote: »

It prompted me to take a look at Europe as a whole.
I've removed a number of countries for clarity, but you can see clear geographical bands developing based around uptake/supply.

Anyone got any idea on the history of this? Did a number of these countries have poor prior experience with vaccination programs?

Delta could rip through many of them very soon

The bottom half of the table is made up of ex Soviet states. There is still a lot of mistrust of the state in some of these countries which may explain some of the hesitancy.

ACitizenErased

Woody79 wrote: »

“The case-fatality rate for Delta (0.3%) at this time appears to be lower than that for Alpha (2%)". Per Cillian De Gascun


Vaccine effectiveness or weaker strain or both?

Could be both. Hard to tell I guess.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

“The case-fatality rate for Delta (0.3%) at this time appears to be lower than that for Alpha (2%)". Per Cillian De Gascun


Vaccine effectiveness or weaker strain or both?

Vaccine effectiveness and testing and age.

MerlinSouthDub

Woody79 wrote: »

“The case-fatality rate for Delta (0.3%) at this time appears to be lower than that for Alpha (2%)". Per Cillian De Gascun


Vaccine effectiveness or weaker strain or both?

Much lower average age of those infected (which is a result of the vaccine)

theguzman

Woody79 wrote: »

“The case-fatality rate for Delta (0.3%) at this time appears to be lower than that for Alpha (2%)". Per Cillian De Gascun


Vaccine effectiveness or weaker strain or both?

Vaccine effectiveness in older and at risk groups who have gotten the vaccines now since March-April, the median age of infections is 25 now so it is primarily spreading and infecting people who are younger, stronger and far better able to fight the virus. Ireland is very close to pushing this into the background entirely and the response of the youth to get vaccinated is heartening and they are by and large not anti-vaxx, it is middle aged grumpy karens and mainly English 5G nutcases with a phd in the facebook school of lies and misinformation that are refusing the vaccine.

duffman13

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Did you's get any sort of heads up that this was coming ??

I'm assuming they've also not confirmed expected deliveries in that case yet

12 hours later replying, crazy day! No heads up, expecting an update operationally from the union/HSE today at some point but it was in the news 3 hours before we got official confirmation.

A day back and forth working on supplies has been fun. But excited to get going next week

Expected deliveries is 50 per pharmacy per week for the next few weeks. 400 on most waiting lists at this but it's still an extra 40,000 vaccines administered per week

stephenjmcd

duffman13 wrote: »

12 hours later replying, crazy day! No heads up, expecting an update operationally from the union/HSE today at some point but it was in the news 3 hours before we got official confirmation.

A day back and forth working on supplies has been fun. But excited to get going next week

Expected deliveries is 50 per pharmacy per week for the next few weeks. 400 on most waiting lists at this but it's still an extra 40,000 vaccines administered per week

Yeah better than nothing for sure, sounds like an absolutely mental day.

I'd say people would be better off applying on the portal too

Baxtardo

J&J pharmacy appointment confirmed for Monday 1pm. 31yo. Rang earlier in the week as soon as NIAC guidance was issued, so there is hope for things to move quickly!

duffman13

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah better than nothing for sure, sounds like an absolutely mental day.

I'd say people would be better off applying on the portal too

I'd be doing that if I was in the 30-34 when that opens.

Biggest issue is I've seen the same names in multiple stores in the booking system and id imagine these people registered in multiple chains/pharmacies so the no show rate might be worrying. Still given the interest, I can't see a wasted vaccine in pharmacy over the next 3 weeks at least

TheGoatOne

Is there anyone with a Boots appointment that hasn’t been cancelled? Mine for next Friday in Cork is still active so hoping I’ll be sorted then.

xredmanlfcx

Mr.S wrote: »

People need to to understand that just because they can now administer from Monday, it’s going to take weeks and weeks, it won’t be over any time soon.

Patience and you’ll get it over the next few weeks / 2 months.

2 months

That's what makes it ludicrous for Stephen Donnelly to just randomly announce this morning that about a million people can ring or turn up at pharmacies/chemists today to register for a vaccine.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Vaccine effectiveness and testing and age.

Why then is a person who is double dosed with a vaccine (AZ or MRNA) more likely to get infected with Delta (79% protection) than Alpha (89% protection), but less likely to be hospitalised with Delta (96% protection) than Alpha (93% protection)?

Table 4. Vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease for Alpha and Delta variants

Vaccine Status Vaccine Effectiveness


Dose 1 Alpha 49 (46 to 52) Delta 35 (32 to 38)
Dose 2 Alpha 89 (87 to 90) Delta 79 (78 to 80

Table 5. Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation for Alpha and Delta variants

Vaccine Status Vaccine Effectiveness

Dose 1 Alpha 78 (64 to 87) Delta 80 (69 to 88)
Dose 2 Alpha 93 (80 to 97)Delta 96 (91 to 98)






Virus more infectious but less deadly.

Wolf359f

Woody79 wrote: »

Why then is a person who is double dosed with a vaccine (AZ or MRNA) more likely to get infected with Delta (79% protection) than Alpha (89% protection), but less likely to be hospitalised with Delta (96% protection) than Alpha (93% protection)?

Table 4. Vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease for Alpha and Delta variants

Vaccine Status Vaccine Effectiveness


Dose 1 Alpha 49 (46 to 52) Delta 35 (32 to 38)
Dose 2 Alpha 89 (87 to 90) Delta 79 (78 to 80

Table 5. Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation for Alpha and Delta variants

Vaccine Status Vaccine Effectiveness

Dose 1 Alpha 78 (64 to 87) Delta 80 (69 to 88)
Dose 2 Alpha 93 (80 to 97)Delta 96 (91 to 98)






Virus more infectious but less deadly.

As we know covid spreads from the most socially active age groups (younger group) and finds it's way up to the older and more vulnerable. Most heat maps show this.

The data around Alpha was taken during the Xmas wave when the majority of vaccines were given to the old and vulnerable so the vaccine efficiency was taken from this.
This new Delta wave is currently circulating in the young age groups, so the efficacy being recorded is based on young and healthy vaccinated people.
It's comparing apples to oranges.

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

As we know covid spreads from the most socially active age groups (younger group) and finds it's way up to the older and more vulnerable. Most heat maps show this.

The data around Alpha was taken during the Xmas wave when the majority of vaccines were given to the old and vulnerable so the vaccine efficiency was taken from this.
This new Delta wave is currently circulating in the young age groups, so the efficacy being recorded is based on young and healthy vaccinated people.
It's comparing apples to oranges.

Garbage above.

Your just talking.

Wolf359f

Woody79 wrote: »

Garbage above.

Your just talking.

So you don't think younger people have a higher immune response to a vaccine vs an old and vulnerable person?

We have been told so many times not to compare vaccine trials from different manufacturers that are run in different countries, at different times on different demographics.

But comparing the efficacy of a vaccine in an older demographic can be directly compared to the same vaccine in a younger group?

Tyrone212

If you were under 35 and had a choice between J&J or Pfizer in the same week which would you pick?

BringBackMick

Tyrone212 wrote: »

If you were under 35 and had a choice between J&J or Pfizer in the same week which would you pick?

J&J now, then likely get Mrna booster in October

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why then is a person who is double dosed with a vaccine (AZ or MRNA) more likely to get infected with Delta (79% protection) than Alpha (89% protection), but less likely to be hospitalised with Delta (96% protection) than Alpha (93% protection)?

Table 4. Vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease for Alpha and Delta variants

Vaccine Status Vaccine Effectiveness


Dose 1 Alpha 49 (46 to 52) Delta 35 (32 to 38)
Dose 2 Alpha 89 (87 to 90) Delta 79 (78 to 80

Table 5. Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation for Alpha and Delta variants

Vaccine Status Vaccine Effectiveness

Dose 1 Alpha 78 (64 to 87) Delta 80 (69 to 88)
Dose 2 Alpha 93 (80 to 97)Delta 96 (91 to 98)






Virus more infectious but less deadly.

You need to read up on confidence intervals

crooked cockney villain

Has the government come out and said that there will be a system to ensure people who have recently had Covid will not have a J&J vaccine wasted on them when a single Pfizer/ AZ will do?

is_that_so

Hippodrome Song Owl wrote: »

But surely it should be proportionate to capacity. With 5k a day capacity Citywest should obviously be doing a larger population than a smaller regional centre, but it seems disproportionate - it's covering several of the most populous suburbs in the country. I trusted that capacity was fairly evenly spread across regions, I'm doubting that now but would have thought there's some actual data on it.

Capacity is not really that well spread in the higher population regions around Dublin. In both Meath and Louth they can deal with better distributed populations but the much larger southern population bulge in both is sending people further afield. One would imagine Kildare is the same.

Tyrone212

Tyrone212 wrote: »

If you were under 35 and had a choice between J&J or Pfizer in the same week which would you pick?

Pfizer

Higher efficacy

Better evidence of prevention of spread

Less likelihood of booster requirement

Great safety profile

is_that_so

Johnny0Toole wrote: »

Pfizer

Higher efficacy

Better evidence of prevention of spread

Less likelihood of booster requirement

Great safety profile

Versus one and done of J&J, which is effective against variants.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Versus one and done of J&J, which is effective against variants.

J & J protection from trial was measured 28 days after 1 dose, Pfizer 1 week after 2nd dose. 5 weeks vs 4 weeks makes almost no difference to me.

J & J are still running a two dose trial and if results are good I fully expect people to be encouraged to get a second dose so I don't think the "one and done" thing is the full picture.

is_that_so

Johnny0Toole wrote: »

J & J protection from trial was measured 28 days after 1 dose, Pfizer 1 week after 2nd dose. 5 weeks vs 4 weeks makes almost no difference to me.

J & J are still running a two dose trial and if results are good I fully expect people to be encouraged to get a second dose so I don't think the "one and done" thing is the full picture.

Whatever they are about to put in your arm is the best choice. It is an attractive option for some people and there looks to be big demand in the 18-34 group.

JPup

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Has the government come out and said that there will be a system to ensure people who have recently had Covid will not have a J&J vaccine wasted on them when a single Pfizer/ AZ will do?

How do you mean? Why would it be a waste. One dose of J&J gives similar levels of protection to the other vaccines from serious disease, especially if you’ve already had Covid.

duffman13

Tyrone212 wrote: »

If you were under 35 and had a choice between J&J or Pfizer in the same week which would you pick?

No underlying health issues and just trying to tick a box then I'd do J&J for convenience if I was a male under 35. Like everything else, that could change but J&J efficacy numbers are very good for a one dose regime.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

It is an attractive option for some people and there looks to be big demand in the 18-34 group.

I don't dispute that, I was answering another posters open question about preference, and just giving my reasons why.

I can fully see the attraction of one shot, but based on all I've read Pfizer is objectively a better vaccine for disease prevention, safety, and reduction of spread, so that outweighs the convenience element for me.

Blessed to be in a country where having different options is now actually happening.

newboard

Vaccined this morning, a co-worker said that if I'm getting vaccined they don't want to work in the same place as me for 2 weeks but won't say why, any ideas?

giveitholly

newboard wrote: »

Vaccined this morning, a co-worker said that if I'm getting vaccined they don't want to work in the same place as me for 2 weeks but won't say why, any ideas?

Why not ask them?