Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

majo

Anyone know what’s happening about #2 dose AZ? Got first one 9 weeks ago (HCW cohort) and as I’m >60 was expecting the second after 12 weeks. Then there was a change in timescale but that seems to have been revised again. Are they back to giving dose #2 after 12 weeks?

pc7

majo wrote: »

Anyone know what’s happening about #2 dose AZ? Got first one 9 weeks ago (HCW cohort) and as I’m >60 was expecting the second after 12 weeks. Then there was a change in timescale but that seems to have been revised again. Are they back to giving dose #2 after 12 weeks?

Couple of my hcw friends have gotten 2nd dose this week (12 week gap) so I'd say you'll hear soon. They were given very little notice.

namloc1980

Got my second shot of Pfizer this morning.

Apogee

https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1397908822790922240

Charles Babbage

The push in Ireland in June to reach the 80% may not reach the volume hoped, judging by the comments about the shortfall of J&J and the non appearance (so far) of Curevac. I wonder can any more Pfizer/Biontech be sourced, given that they have already planned for the higher volume of vaccine delivery?

rubberdungeon

For those asking about slow vaccine rollout in Drogheda:

Labour's @geraldnash told Dáil that HSE is sending 10,000 extra J&J jabs to Louth/East Meath, set to be issued by middle of next week.

Some of those registered as long ago as mid-April, and 1,000 of them are over-60

Apogee

majo wrote: »

Anyone know what’s happening about #2 dose AZ? Got first one 9 weeks ago (HCW cohort) and as I’m >60 was expecting the second after 12 weeks. Then there was a change in timescale but that seems to have been revised again. Are they back to giving dose #2 after 12 weeks?

Reid says they have moved to 12 weeks based on revised NIAC advise:
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1397907940888043521

stephenjmcd

Summary of HSE briefing so far.

Pfizer supply referenced is a 30k shortfall in one delivery it seems. Pfizer do have a very good track record of making that up quickly.
https://twitter.com/PriscillaLynch/status/1397909608639959040?s=20

pc7

Wow GPs have done trojan work.

Goldengirl

Deleted User wrote: »

Will try and dig out the article I read on this. Basically because of the nature of how Covid infects, for a variant to repeatedly and consistently bypass vaccine immunity, for the mrna and possibly viral vector vaccines at least, it would somehow need to completely reinvent how it infects. Natural immunity is more random in the specific response that is triggered. That’s why some small changes can bypass. The vaccine is specific immunity to the spike protein. As long as there is the spike protein, immune response will pick it up. For a mutation significant enough to alter the spike protein to bypass immunity it would need to first become a less infectious virus with associated competitive loss. Older type vaccines, such as for the flu, don’t code for the spike protein specifically which is why they are bypassed more easily. Also see sinovav

Yes raind. I agree as regards the mRNA vaccines. I have read similar.
My original caveat was in regard to the twitter feed posted by hmm which seemed to imply that people previously 'infected' may have lifetime immunity, without booster vaccination.
I was simply saying that this is not true as of yet it has not been shown that wild infection does anything more than prevent reinfection with that particular virus or similar, and not against the stronger variants.
This has been shown again and again in healthcare workers in some of the worst affected countries where they have been reinfected but with for example in Brazil, the P1 variant.
And to add that while we need more information on it, 33 healthcare workers in India have been reinfected and hospitalised, despite having been fully vaccinated with Astra Zeneca.
Now I will add also that studies have shown reinfection by frontline healthcare workers is twice as likely than those in the general population due to increased exposure and viral load, so that might only mean the general population need to be aware and take normal precautions, if a vóc about, but it is not good news for us hcws.

stephenjmcd

Dr Henry giving an insight into the impact of vaccines so far
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1397912475190714370?s=20

Goldengirl

Hardyn wrote: »

Studies have shown as the protection of neutralizing antibodies decreases the protection from memory cells is preserved. There's a good talk on it here worth the time to watch. The thread also includes links to said studies:

https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1397669200538210304?s=20

This image sums it up well.

Thanks Hardyn..

Wolf359f

Apogee wrote: »

Reid:

2.6M doses as of yesterday
1.8M dose 1. 800k dose 2.

So crude figures:
1.8m Dose 1 (at least ~285 of these are 60-69 with AZ, so no 2nd dose required until July onwards)
800k have received a second dose. Leaves 715k who will need a second dose before the end of June (I know there's some AZ used for HCW's and Cohort 4, I think there was about 60k used on Cohort 4 before the change to mRNA)
So maybe only 655k second doses needed before the end of June.
Say 55k J&J used or close to it. Leaving 600k second doses needed.

~270k next week, ~290 the week after (enough to cover 560k of the 600k second doses required) I'm just going by capacity, I know the 560k will be a mix of first and second doses.

80% of adults would be 2.96m
2.5 weeks left after that to do 1.16M (464k a week)
if we agree someone getting an appointment within 10 days after registering on 30th June (80% adults offered a jab) that gives us 4 weeks for that 1.16M (290k a week)

My figures could be all over the place, very hard without the daily updates :mad:

hmmm

Goldengirl wrote: »

Yes raind. I agree as regards the mRNA vaccines. I have read similar.
My original caveat was in regard to the twitter feed posted by hmm which seemed to imply that people previously 'infected' may have lifetime immunity, without booster vaccination.

The article (and I haven't read the source papers) says that the strong protection applies to people who have been infected, and received a vaccination on top.

The article suggests that the group above may never need a booster. The vaccinated (only) group might.

I'm surprised by your comments about breakthrough infections in vaccinated HCWs leading to a large number of hospitalisations - would you have the source for these reports to hand?

mollymae12

Hi, I texted NEW 9 days ago on my vaccine appointment, which was scheduled for May 20th at the Aviva. I still have not got a new date. Has anyone else been waiting this long for a reschedule?

majo

pc7 wrote: »

Couple of my hcw friends have gotten 2nd dose this week (12 week gap) so I'd say you'll hear soon. They were given very little notice.

Thanks for that info- especially helpful to hear they didn’t get much notice. Roughly what part of the country are they in?

Doctor Jimbob

majo wrote: »

Anyone know what’s happening about #2 dose AZ? Got first one 9 weeks ago (HCW cohort) and as I’m >60 was expecting the second after 12 weeks. Then there was a change in timescale but that seems to have been revised again. Are they back to giving dose #2 after 12 weeks?

pc7 wrote: »

Couple of my hcw friends have gotten 2nd dose this week (12 week gap) so I'd say you'll hear soon. They were given very little notice.

My wife got her second dose on Sunday, was only told on Friday. Based in Dublin. 12 weeks between doses.

Goldengirl

hmmm wrote: »

The article (and I haven't read the source papers) says that the strong protection applies to people who have been infected, and received a vaccination on top.

The article suggests that the group above may never need a booster. The vaccinated (only) group might.

I'm surprised by your comments about breakthrough infections in vaccinated HCWs leading to a large number of hospitalisations - would you have the source for these reports to hand?

Brazil and China and reports from India as yet. It is studies on reinfection among those infected. The reports of those hcws infected and ill are from WHO, Indian scientist so only have that as yet. This is what Kingston Mills referred to last week.
Will try to post those articles later as just on my phone atm.
I am thinking of hcws ( as it would affect me ) but as I said it is to say that the general public would be as much at risk as hcws risk greater.
Edit. The only report relating to vaccine evasion was those hcws in India.
The others were previously infected but not vaccinated at the time of the study AFAIK which is different.

Hmmzis

Goldengirl wrote: »

Yes raind. I agree as regards the mRNA vaccines. I have read similar.
My original caveat was in regard to the twitter feed posted by hmm which seemed to imply that people previously 'infected' may have lifetime immunity, without booster vaccination.
I was simply saying that this is not true as of yet it has not been shown that wild infection does anything more than prevent reinfection with that particular virus or similar, and not against the stronger variants.
This has been shown again and again in healthcare workers in some of the worst affected countries where they have been reinfected but with for example in Brazil, the P1 variant.
And to add that while we need more information on it, 33 healthcare workers in India have been reinfected and hospitalised, despite having been fully vaccinated with Astra Zeneca.
Now I will add also that studies have shown reinfection by frontline healthcare workers is twice as likely than those in the general population due to increased exposure and viral load, so that might only mean the general population need to be aware and take normal precautions, if a vóc about, but it is not good news for us hcws.

Breakthrough cases are to be expected, there are no vaccines that are 100% effective, regardless of how close the match between the vaccine construct and the infecting virus is. Wild type infections are somewhat narrower in their response, so there the protective efficacy is a bit lower. Overall though, on a population level, it looks to be very good.

There is an excellent CDC report on breakthrough cases in the US, it has lots of data and the vaccinated population size analyzed there is over 100 million so it has excellent statistical power (btw. they found no differences in the virus variants that cause breakthrough cases).

Edit: the research that hmmm is referring to looks at a particular category of people who have had an actual infection and then been vaccinated some time after their recovery. The immune responses in those people are nothing short of spectacular, their serum knocks even SARS and WIV on their heads (while related, they are very different viruses to SARS-cov-2).

Strazdas

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

My wife got her second dose on Sunday, was only told on Friday. Based in Dublin. 12 weeks between doses.

Apparently NIAC recommended today that the AZ gap should stay at 12 weeks (which also means though that the 16 week gap is gone).

pc7

majo wrote: »

Thanks for that info- especially helpful to hear they didn’t get much notice. Roughly what part of the country are they in?

Dublin and were all City West for this jab, had been Mater Hospital and Phoneix Park for their 1st iirc.

Goldengirl

Hmmzis wrote: »

Breakthrough cases are to be expected, there are no vaccines that are 100% effective, regardless of how close the match between the vaccine construct and the infecting virus is. Wild type infections are somewhat narrower in their response, so there the protective efficacy is a bit lower. Overall though, on a population level, it looks to be very good.

There is an excellent CDC report on breakthrough cases in the US, it has lots of data and the vaccinated population size analyzed there is over 100 million so it has excellent statistical power (btw. they found no differences in the virus variants that cause breakthrough cases).

Edit: the research that hmmm is referring to looks at a particular category of people who have had an actual infection and then been vaccinated some time after their recovery. The immune responses in those people are nothing short of spectacular, their serum knocks even SARS and WIV on their heads (while related, they are very different viruses to SARS-cov-2).

Yes. I have seen the CDC articles.
However the conclusions do mention that they were not taking the response to circulating variants as definitive at that time.
They did find hcws have a higher risk (around twice that of) than the gen pop taking into account all other variables.
That affects me and my colleagues.
I added a caveat to Hmms post, but I do not disagree with it. Its good news alright.
Yes, there are many people elderly and immunocompromised, cancer patients and it seems likely hcws that the positive news doesn't apply to, especially with variants, as wild immunity is specific, and vaccinations may not work as well for some people listed above. I suppose my responses are coloured by these people that I come into contact with on a daily basis and are not meant to be just negative.
Good news for most people though.

Rebelbrowser

No real suggestion in that HSE news conference that they were treating 40-44 differently to 45-49 re choice as Varadkar suggested last night. Leo really does love to talk prematurely.

SecretsOfEarth

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

No real suggestion in that HSE news conference that they were treating 40-44 differently to 45-49 re choice as Varadkar suggested last night. Leo really does love to talk prematurely.

Always itching for a solo run, usually to get 'good' news out first and have his name attached to it.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

No real suggestion in that HSE news conference that they were treating 40-44 differently to 45-49 re choice as Varadkar suggested last night. Leo really does love to talk prematurely.

Well I hope he's right because we can get the job done quicker if people can opt-in for J&J. Hopefully it will be the same story as we work our down through the age categories. Same with AZ.

Apogee

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1397944657238278149

is_that_so

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Well I hope he's right because we can get the job done quicker if people can opt-in for J&J. Hopefully it will be the same story as we work our down through the age categories. Same with AZ.

Quantity is the issue for both of those and there are no further EU orders for AZ planned.

km79

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

No real suggestion in that HSE news conference that they were treating 40-44 differently to 45-49 re choice as Varadkar suggested last night. Leo really does love to talk prematurely.

They’d didn’t even announce a date ?

Icantthinkof1

I’m now 14weeks after my 1st dose AZ vaccine (HCW) and still waiting to hear about my 2nd. I should had been offered my 2nd 2 weeks ago as am high risk- so frustrating!

hmmm

Hmmzis wrote: »

Edit: the research that hmmm is referring to looks at a particular category of people who have had an actual infection and then been vaccinated some time after their recovery. The immune responses in those people are nothing short of spectacular, their serum knocks even SARS and WIV on their heads (while related, they are very different viruses to SARS-cov-2).

Knowing nothing about this, what is the live virus providing to people which the vaccines aren't? Would this suggest that a booster with an attenuated vaccine would complete some sort of immunological jigsaw?