Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781269#Comment_117781269

They are leaving those on first AZ jabs to mix and get a second vaccine, since the beginning of the week. It was approved by NIAC. I know someone with one AZ and now getting a Pfizer.

Boosters are being offered to high risk that are doubled vax'd with AZ also.

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117779978#Comment_117779978

People have to go on immunosuppressants after a transplant operation so they need to make sure they're up to date on vaccines before the transplant (harder for body to generate an immune response afterwards). It's a bit like the do you give a liver to an alcoholic dilemma. Organs for transplant are precious and they want to avoid wasting organs on someone who'll be dead within months.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780037#Comment_117780037

From UK study vaccine effectiveness between AZ and Pfzier is equal at circa 4 months after 2nd dose.

We will all be offered boosters to reduce infection rate/protect each other.

Implications of recent UK study is we could potentially be offered booster doses every 4 to 5 months until a vaccine comes out that offers sterilising immunity.

This might never come to pass, but throughout this we have always been kicking the can or mitigating to avoid worst outcomes (lockdowns/social distancing).

A booster vaccine (to whoever wants it) in developed nations every 5 months is a small price to pay to live our lives and not overburden hospitals is possibly a price worth paying in the short term.

The other important point is your very likely to protected from severe disease if infected.

Also when it comes to booster you have better T cell immunity from AZ (T cell immunity is more long lasting in the body) but boosting antibodies better with an MRNA.

I think Moderna is possibly best booster vaccine, antibodies seem to hang around longer with it.

Will everyone want moderna, possibly turning their noses at Pfzier booster?

Yes and in six months time somelike you will say you have been greviously wronged by getting Pfzier booster and not a moderna booster.

Be grateful, your not in a terrible position nor have been wronged very badly by Government.

If you were fully vaccinated by MRNA back in April you would be 4 months post vaccine and likely less protected as you you are only a few months second jab with AZ.

Also mixing vaccines may confer better protection.

Getting the same MRNA pumped into you every 5 months, the body may not react as well to it each time as a vaccine is essentially tricking your body you have been infected. Getting different types of vaccines may help body react better each time being vaccinated.

I actually think your in a good position now but just looking at it the wrong way.

Whats happened in the past is in the past and have remained covid free.

No vaccine at present unfortunately allows you to walk around like John Wayne care free like it is 2019.

This is a process not the final destination with these first generation vaccines.

charlie_says

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781343#Comment_117781343

There is a case of a mother with a 12 year old on the transplant list who are getting pressured to take vaccine. The mother is very worried that the child, who is very ill anyway, might not do so well with adverse reactions and has decided to hold off on the vaccine but was told, in person, that they will not perform the transplant (there is a donor for the child) without the vaccine first.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781310#Comment_117781310

No, they are not doing that. They will only mix vaccines if you have had a bad reaction to the first jab and you need a doctor to request a mix.

Danye

Hi all,

I’m by no means “Anti vax” but I am certainly hesitant with this one. As of yet, I’ve yet to take it. I’m annoyed that I’m being excluded from doing certain things and therefore I am weighing up my options as to whether I should get the vaccine. 

I’m looking for advice and opinions and I’m completely open minded. I’m not here for an argument.

The main reason I was against a vaccine is because this vaccine to me, has come out of no where and seems to have skipped the usual vaccine testing regime. There’s no long term data as to what the consequences could be? Also survival rate was so high for my age cohort, why would I need a vaccine? I’ve known several people who had Covid and the only reason they knew they had it is because they were a close contact and were tested by default. So again no real sickness. They’ve also not had any issues with long covid. In fact many of my friends and peers who had Covid we’re actually sicker after their vaccine. 

If this is an illness that predominantly effects older people and people with pre existing conditions, and they’re vaccinated why would I or anyone else need to be vaccinated? 

Then I read other Doctors and specialists speak out about it. The likes of Dr. Robert W Malone. 

As I said, I’m by no means an expert and I am not against vaccines but a lot of the reasons as to why to take it seem to go against logic. I’m not a vulnerable cohort, I believe the vulnerable have been protected so why should I take an un approved vaccine that nobody knows anything about the long term effects? 

blob:https://www.boards.ie/5605e51f-3974-46c9-b5f6-34f0605060c3

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781474#Comment_117781474

Read up on it. You're wrong.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781667#Comment_117781667

A lot of this has been covered previously, but I will point out that robert malone is pretty much a full on grifter and just a step off andrew wakefield territory.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781470#Comment_117781470

The mother is expecting these experts to perform a complex very risky donor transplant surgery for their 12 year old. It's very odd she feels the need to contradict them on a vaccine. I'm flabbergasted that anyone with a child in such a condition that they need a transplant would do anything other than ensuring the child was able to get the transplant and give the doctors and experts all the support they needed to.

As others have noted, people often go on immuno-suppressants post surgery to reduce the risk of rejection, getting the vaccine will be very much part of the process of giving the 12 year old the best chance of survival.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781667#Comment_117781667

Covid 19 is a novel disease to the human race.

I assume you are over 18, would you like to get the measles at 18 unvaccinated?

The vaccine is a training tool for your body, so that in the next few months or a year when your likely to be exposed to covid your body can recognise it without much fuss.

That is what has caused the covid pandemic, its novelty to everyone.

Long covid affects a few percent of people in their 20's.

Long covid could damage your bodies organs long term and leave you in poor health for months.

Your also doing it to reduce infection risk in your community.

How would you feel if you got infected and someone you care about whos health is compromised got infected also?

Getting a vaccine allows you to move around your community alot more freely with less guilt and stigma(Remember house parties last summer).

There is clearly something you can do further (get vaccinated) to protect people around you while allowing you to get on with your life.

Your doing it so people feel more safe around you.

The vaccine passport is a bit BS to be honest, but it probably will make life easier for you with regards to travel and work.

I honestly cant see a reason for you to not take it?

Your proposition is what will the vaccine do to my body?

The vaccine is a CONTROLLED way for a population and individual to recognise the virus and be ready for it when exposed.

Thats it essentially, theres no great conspiracy and most other reasons are the fluffy stuff.

In the next year we will all likely meet covid, better to be ready for it.

1-2% of northern ireland is currently infected with covid with schools about to go back in about a week.

There is no hiding behind herd immunity, which some people thought they could.

People have died and been hospitalised with it from 0 to 100+, with or without health complaints.

Why take the risk of regret at not taking the vaccine?

Every person who is hospitalised with covid and not vaccinated deeply regrets not taking it and in many cases begs for it when hospital when its clearly too late.

Vaccine hesitancy is about mistrust, fear and lack of knowledge.

I believe in the next few months everyone in ireland from 5 upwards will be offered a vaccine.

The social pressure will simply continue for unvaccinated to take the vaccine?

If you were hospitalised with covid or got long covid do you think you would get much sympathy from your community if you remain unvaccinated?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/young-unvaccinated-people-are-being-hospitalized-covid-19-delta-variant-n1273998

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771694#Comment_117771694

Sounds like they are people you should have just dumped from your life anyway. Some people have far too many "friends"!

Pete_Cavan

So with all this stuff about Pfizer immunity dropping, has that been corroborated by reviewing the people who took part in the trials? As these people will have had the vaccine for the longest time, surely they are the best place to be looking?

revelman

When people say that the MRNA vaccines came out of nowhere.... actually, these have been development since the 1980s. Interesting article in the Irish Times the other day about the scientists in Pennsylvania who were developing them. Eventually Biontech and Moderna took notice of their work.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781766#Comment_117781766

I'm afraid you are wrong. I phoned the HSE and they told me that if your first vaccine was AZ, you cannot get a 2nd jab of Pfizer/Moderna without a letter from your doctor. Also, about the walk in centres this weekend:

People are only eligible to receive a second dose of the same vaccine they previously received.

People attending a Pfizer Dose 2 walk-in clinic must have received their Pfizer Dose 1 at least 21 days prior. People attending a Moderna Dose 2 walk-in clinic must have received their Moderna Dose 1 at least 28 days prior.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40362758.html

From what I recall when announcing that it would be possible to mix the vaccines it was couched with the words ''in certain circumstances''.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782946#Comment_117782946

You can't pick and choose your second vaccine, nor the first, unless you were offered a vital vector one under 30.

The examiner? Really? Would that be credible info anyway? My son got his second Moderna on day 24!!

The second jab after AZ is available in mRNA. It's obvious you can't just walk in. But it is possible.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783027#Comment_117783027

Seems it's mainly for the 5500 who had an adverse reaction to AZ. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/5500-who-suffered-reaction-to-astrazeneca-will-be-first-to-get-mixed-vaccine-for-second-dose-40762940.html

Such a shame it's going to take them that long to get a second jab, all this while be substantially unprotected.

Could easily have been done sooner with informed consent.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783050#Comment_117783050

As always, NIAC has been overly cautious with every decision they've made. Tbh I'd prefer they were. Boosters will be mixed with AZ recipients next month.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783027#Comment_117783027

Ah, here now, if you read it you would know that it is a direct quote from the HSE. Of course The Examiner is credible.

If you walk in, they will only give you the same dose of what you got before. Looks like there are no walk in centres for people who got the Astra Zeneca as first dose.

An mRNA vaccine is not available as a 2nd jab to people who got AZ as their first jab unless for medical reasons and which you need a letter from your doctor requesting it.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783050#Comment_117783050

I think they just wanted to force all the 60 year olds to take the AZ vaccine to use up all the AZ vaccine that they have.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783125#Comment_117783125

Well, there simply weren't enough Pfizers or Modernas at that point. They could have vaccinated the over 60s with existing stocks of Pfizer and not used AZ but it would have meant a big delay to the over 50s being vaccinated (and subsequently the over 40s and 30s and so on), as there were nowhere near enough doses available to vaccinate both cohorts.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783125#Comment_117783125

Firstly, nobody was forced to take a vaccine, please think of better wording to use, secondly, we didn't even have enough AZ to finish the 60-69, some Cohort 5 and some HCW's, when NIAC advised to bring forward the second jab. It wasn't and still isn't in abundant supply.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783148#Comment_117783148

They were intending to leave the 60 year olds half vaccinated for 12 weeks while at the same time they 50 year olds were getting double jabbed within a month. As I've said before, my next door neighbours, younger than me were fully vaccinated with Pfizer much earlier than I was. Also bear in mind we were told that the first jab of AZ wasn't protective for 24 days while the Pfizer was protective after 10 days.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783156#Comment_117783156

No one has been forced to take any vaccine is true, but only the 60 year olds were told to take the AZ for they wouldn't be given anything else and this was at a time when there were huge question marks with regard to clotting and efficacy (South Africa stopped using it because it was ineffective against the SA variant).

There is a plentiful enough supply to insist that the 60 year olds only get AZ even with the knowledge that a mix would provide better efficacy.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783203#Comment_117783203

You're totally missing the point. When you got your first jab, the most important thing was a first dose. It was highly effective against the Kent variant. So you could get a first jab of AZ or wait a few weeks for an mRNA (remember those more at risk had gotten their first dose of an mRNA vaccine and needed and second dose at about 4 weeks) that ties up supplies. So if NIAC decided to abandon AZ, you would have been waiting weeks longer to get a first jab.

I didn't read that about a Pfizer first jab being more protective after 10 days compared to AZ. You'll have to provide a source.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783209#Comment_117783209

Plentiful supply only now.

Up to this week Demand always far outstripped supply.

They are now talking about wasted vaccines and plentiful supplies.

Not 5 months ago?

I think your trying to do a bit of revisionism.

In March/April supply was terrible.

It was a like a scene at Dunkirk WII, all those people standing in lines on the beeach glad to get a boat, any boat?

Compare Ireland currently to Israel who were vaccinating 60 year olds in January with MRNA?

How are they getting on?

Not everything is as black and white as you make out.

You should be glad to have a boat in this Delta Storm.

I suppose some people always look at a glass half empty.

Be glad there is plentiful supply for booster vaccine in the next few months?

What brand would you like for you booster Sir?

Would that be Pfzier or Moderna, you might have to wait a few extra weeks for Moderna there seems to be quite a run on it at present. I'm sorry about this inconvenience.

I have to say Victor Meldrew does come to mind.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783218#Comment_117783218

The 60s were told that if they didn't take the AZ when offered back in March/April, they could go to the end of the queue, so we all took it even though there were many question marks over the issue with clotting and efficacy against the SA variant.

I appreciate that here was a limited supply back in March/April, but I would have been prepared to wait a month or two for a mNRA vaccine because basically, I wasn't going to be fully vaccinated for 12 weeks at that stage (I think they changed it to 8 weeks in June). There is a plentiful supply of mRNA vaccines now, they have announced that it is safe to mix the vaccines, but they are still refusing to mix vaccines unless there is a medical reason to do so. As well as that, the HSE are not buying any more supplies of AZ vaccines. Is it any wonder that people think they are being fobbed off with a 2nd class vaccine.

As for the issues in Israel - most of the cases are from those who are unvaccinated (either Palestinian or older orthordox religious people who were anti-vax as well as younger people who have not been jabbed). Anyway, its nine months and they are now giving booster shots to the over 60s, the most vulnerable people.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/among-older-israelis-serious-covid-rate-six-times-higher-if-unvaccinated/

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783226#Comment_117783226

And is it tough **** to the 5,500 people who had a bad reaction to the AZ vaccine, were left vulnerable all summer and can only now get jabbed with a letter from their doctor? Meanwhile, healthy 12 year olds can get jabbed in as walk-ins? Whats that all about?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783266#Comment_117783266

It depends what way you look at it I suppose.

Over 70% protection from severe illness after first dose of AZ with delta variant.

They are getting it now and the longer gap will aid the response and give good immunity over much of the winter now.

Also the fact they got such a severe response in many cases will be down to being infected previously so they may not be as vulnerable as you think.

In the history of the world I dont think your above example is of severe injustice.

Circa two thirds of the worlds population would love to have a single dose of a vaccine, never mind a top up dose in a brand of their choosing.

You come across as very entitled.

This has to be run like a military operation, not menu service at mcdonalds.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783249#Comment_117783249

The clotting was low risk to your age group, the SA trial was flawed in so many ways.

There certainly was wording about going to the back of the queue, no doubt about that. I saw it more as looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Ignore the second dose timeframe, it was shown with the kent variant that a single dose was enough (or are you being greedy wanting your second dose before others got their first dose of AZ?) It was all about supply, we just didn't have enough supply. I don't understand your issue, you got vaccinated with a single jab before others, when the first dose was crucial. We haven't bought any more AZ because it's not approved for under 18 year olds, and for the most part that's whose still needing a first dose. So would you be happy vaccinating kids with an approved vaccine (which could have serious health issues) just so you feel better?

Israel reached close to herd immunity with vanilla/Kent variant, so the vaccinated protected the un-vaccinated. With Delta that changes things and the vaccinated can't to some extent protect themselves. So if you cant give the unvaccinated jabs to protect the vaccinated, the next best thing is giving boosters to those vaccinated. Protect those most needed and those who protect the unvaccinated.

dublinbando

How long do you guys think the vaccine passport will be in use?