Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Some interesting data from the latest PHE report. Up to 25 May the majority of hospitalizations and deaths involving B.1.617.2 are in the unvaccinated.
Only 1 fully vaccinated person admitted to hospital compared to 30 unvaccinated.

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1397984873613344775?s=19

Sleeper12

revelman wrote:

There is no comparable risk that I know of for Pfizer. There are reports of a theoretical link to myocarditis but it tends to be in people under 40 and that link is still theoretical. So, for someone in their 40s, Pfizer would seem to pose no significant risk.

So Pfizer is definitely safer then. That's what I thought

lucernarian

Hardyn wrote: »

Some interesting data from the latest PHE report. Up to 25 May the majority of hospitalizations and deaths involving B.1.617.2 are in the unvaccinated.
Only 1 fully vaccinated person admitted to hospital compared to 30 unvaccinated.

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1397984873613344775?s=19

Still, there were two deaths in fully vaccinated. Any other strong comorbidities reported in those two instances?

revelman

revelman wrote: »

Well not everyone was in your position. Many healthcare workers felt they had no choice but to take AZ because that was what was available and their job mean that they were exposed to COVID.

That's a shame for them, I'm glad I wasn't in their shoes.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What is the risk someone in their 40s when taking Pfizer by comparison?

Maybe your asking the wrong question?

John Campbell thinks the risks are male/female related
and vaccines should be taken based on sex rather than age
at this stage in the rollout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pr9yG7CMbY

Sadler Peak

Can I cancel my Covid registration ? Registered during the week.

My doctor's clinic text me saying I can get the vaccine in his clinic.

Would be handier to get it there than traveling to a vaccination center.

revelman

Sleeper12 wrote: »

So Pfizer is definitely safer then. That's what I thought

We now give AZ to people over 50 because the risk is even lower the older you get.

I thought you said earlier you didn’t want to engage in an argument?

My problem with the language you sometimes use is that it is a bit hyperbolic and exaggerated and IMO is not appropriate when people are using these boards to seek reassurance. Many people had no choice but to get AZ and now, waiting for their second shot, I don’t think exaggerated language is helpful.

delly

It may be a question for the cohort 7 thread, but I'm curious if anybody is aware of the potential reduction of vaccine effectiveness if taking steroids or other forms of immune suppressing medication. Chronic asthmatics for example would be in that category, but there is a lack of published data for obvious reasons.

Wolf359f

lucernarian wrote: »

Still, there were two deaths in fully vaccinated. Any other strong comorbidities reported in those two instances?

Mortality rate 10x higher in fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated. It's obviously a result of age/other factors. Older/are risk people would tend to have their second dose compared to the young unvaccinated. But the sample size for the fully vaccinated is so small the CI there would be massive.

revelman

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a shame for them, I'm glad I wasn't in their shoes.

Delighted for you.

Sleeper12

revelman wrote:

I thought you said earlier you didn’t want to engage in an argument?

You were derailing a thread about vaccine appointments. Engaging with the you there would have me derail it too. This thread is for vaccine discussions

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

So Pfizer is definitely safer then. That's what I thought

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/19-year-old-hospitalized-with-heart-inflammation-after-pfizer-vaccination-657428

Tell that to this 19 year old lad and his family?

funnydoggy

Feeling kinda demoralised about the forthcoming J&J underdelivery. I want to get back to normal

majo

Sadler Peak wrote: »

Can I cancel my Covid registration ? Registered during the week.

My doctor's clinic text me saying I can get the vaccine in his clinic.

Would be handier to get it there than traveling to a vaccination center.

You could phone the helpline and tell them you don’t need an appointment

Sleeper12

Sadler Peak wrote:

Can I cancel my Covid registration ? Registered during the week.

You might be able to cancel with the helpline but I think they read off a script & not much use for actual doing anything.

You can definitely cancel online once you have gotten an appointment. It gives you an option to reschedule or remove yourself altogether from the process

Wolf359f

delly wrote: »

It may be a question for the cohort 7 thread, but I'm curious if anybody is aware of the potential reduction of vaccine effectiveness if taking steroids or other forms of immune suppressing medication. Chronic asthmatics for example would be in that category, but there is a lack of published data for obvious reasons.

I think it's only those with autoimmune diseases/transplant patients (some people with Crohn's or arthritis would take the same meds, but I don't think they would have the same issue) who have an issue getting an immune response from a vaccine.

revelman

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You were derailing a thread about vaccine appointments. Engaging with the you there would have me derail it too. This thread is for vaccine discussions

I didn’t derail the thread. You did. I responded to your post in which you stated that a woman had “dropped dead” in Belgium from a J&J vaccine and that it had been “partially suspended” as a result. I think your post would have be more suited to this forum rather than the appointment thread.

I responded to say that your language was hyperbolic and unhelpful. The woman did not drop dead. She was treated in hospital following clots associated with J&J. Also, J&J was not “partially suspended” as the word “suspended” implies a pause. Rather it was restricted to those aged 41 and above.

I really don’t see how responding to a post that has nothing to do with appointments is “derailing” the appointments thread. Surely you were the one who derailed it in the first place... ?!?

Turtwig

Turtwig wrote: »

The risk is about 1 in 50,000 for AZ.
No known risk for Pfizer.

Any backup for the above?

Fairly sweeping statements.

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/19-year-old-hospitalized-with-heart-inflammation-after-pfizer-vaccination-657428

Sleeper12

Woody79 wrote:

Tell that to this 19 year old lad and his family?

It's still safer though. All vaccines and medicine carry some risk. Some vacancies are more safe than others though.

Looks like it won't make much difference soon anyway. AZ is almost done away with in the eu and j&j are sending feck all to Ireland over the next month. If we get more j&j for July it will be mostly too late for the 40s and 50s. Looks like the vast majority will be getting Pfizer

revelman

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's still safer though. All vaccines and medicine carry some risk. Some vacancies are more safe than others though.

Looks like it won't make much difference soon anyway. AZ is almost done away with in the eu and j&j are sending feck all to Ireland over the next month. If we get more j&j for July it will be mostly too late for the 40s and 50s. Looks like the vast majority will be getting Pfizer

German scientists say the clot-causing issue is fixable. If this is true, I can see these vaccines playing an important role, especially in the developing world.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-scientists-claim-to-have-solved-covid-vaccine-blood-clot-puzzle-1.4576752

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's still safer though. All vaccines and medicine carry some risk. Some vacancies are more safe than others though.

Looks like it won't make much difference soon anyway. AZ is almost done away with in the eu and j&j are sending feck all to Ireland over the next month. If we get more j&j for July it will be mostly too late for the 40s and 50s. Looks like the vast majority will be getting Pfizer

You've your mind made up on all.

Real world is not as black and white as you make out.

Sleeper12

revelman wrote:

I really don’t see how responding to a post that has nothing to do with appointments is “derailing†the appointments thread. Surely you were the one who derailed it in the first place... ?!?

This is an argument about another thread. We will get red cards for engaging in this so I'll bow out

Wolf359f

Turtwig wrote: »

The risk is about 1 in 50,000 for AZ.
No known risk for Pfizer.

Woody79 wrote: »

Any backup for the above?

Fairly sweeping statements.

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/19-year-old-hospitalized-with-heart-inflammation-after-pfizer-vaccination-657428

First paragraph is key in your link

It has still not been confirmed with certainty that the inflammation was developed as a side-effect to the vaccination

On AZ, from MHRA

First dose: 13 per mil.
Second dose: 1.6 per mil*
Averaging at: 14.6 per mil or 1 in 68k
*The overall incidence after second doses was 1.6 per million doses. This should not be directly compared to the incidence rate reported after the first dose given that the majority of second doses to date have been in older people

They give no breakdown per age group, but the incidence rate in younger people would be much higher.

robinbird

iguana wrote: »

You don't decide during a pandemic that you suddenly just need to temporarily shut a vaccination centre because somehow everyone is due a few days off. If this really is about staff needing some time off, someone's head should roll for appalling planning.

The decision to close MVCs in the middle of the rollout is just bizarre,

Apogee wrote: »

260-280k this week.

So instead of ramping up we are ramping down. We should be doing 500,000 a week a this stage

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I wonder can any more Pfizer/Biontech be sourced, given that they have already planned for the higher volume of vaccine delivery?

A lot of Pfizer is sitting in storage. There is no need to source any more.

snotboogie wrote: »

Germany are set to hit 60 vaccines per 100. 20 EU countries are now over 50 vaccines per 100.

Ane we are below 50 per 100
So at least 20 EU countries are doing better than us with the exact same per capita delivery.

Again the narrative that we are doing a brilliant job is misleading. When the HSE stopped providing stats we had 650,000 vaccines sitting in storage. Given that we are only administering slightly more than is being delivered for the last few weeks we can take it that this figure hasn't gone down much. Closing vaccine centres for a "break" does not help.

Open up the portal to 40 to 44 now and ramp up vaccinations to 500k for a few weeks till we have reduced the stockpiles.

Marcusm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

So Pfizer is definitely safer then. That's what I thought

Myocarditis in 62 out of 5m cases is more than 1 in 100,000! Need to get past the comparative “safeness” unless you are in a particularly affected group as otherwise you might find the disease arrives before the immunity! Both clotrisk and heart risk is greater in those infected.

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/pfizer-vaccine-heart-inflammation-myocarditis

Sleeper12

Woody79 wrote:

You've your mind made up on all.

Woody79 wrote:

Real world is not as black and white as you make out.

I got my first dose of pfizer today after declining j&j several times over just under a week. The system works. Happy days

revelman

Marcusm wrote: »

Myocarditis in 62 out of 5m cases is more than 1 in 100,000! Need to get past the comparative “safeness” unless you are in a particularly affected group as otherwise you might find the disease arrives before the immunity! Both clotrisk and heart risk is greater in those infected.

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/pfizer-vaccine-heart-inflammation-myocarditis

The interesting thing about Myocarditis is that it is normally caused by viral infection. There are far fewer normal viruses circulating at the moment. So you can see why the CDC is investigating it. Hopefully, it will turn out to be just a coincidence.

snotboogie

robinbird wrote: »

The decision to close MVCs in the middle of the rollout is just bizarre,




So instead of ramping up we are ramping down. We should be doing 500,000 a week a this stage




A lot of Pfizer is sitting in storage. There is no need to source any more.



Ane we are below 50 per 100
So at least 20 EU countries are doing better than us with the exact same per capita delivery.

Again the narrative that we are doing a brilliant job is misleading. When the HSE stopped providing stats we had 650,000 vaccines sitting in storage. Given that we are only administering slightly more than is being delivered for the last few weeks we can take it that this figure hasn't gone down much. Closing vaccine centres for a "break" does not help.

Open up the portal to 40 to 44 now and ramp up vaccinations to 500k for a few weeks till we have reduced the stockpiles.

2.6 million doses as announced today puts us at 52.5 per 100, pretty much in the middle of the pack. What you are saying was definitely true a week or two ago but we have caught up over the last week, at least to the middling group in the EU. We are not doing brilliantly but we are not doing terribly either.

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

First paragraph is key in your link

On AZ, from MHRA

First dose: 13 per mil.
Second dose: 1.6 per mil*
Averaging at: 14.6 per mil or 1 in 68k
*The overall incidence after second doses was 1.6 per million doses. This should not be directly compared to the incidence rate reported after the first dose given that the majority of second doses to date have been in older people

They give no breakdown per age group, but the incidence rate in younger people would be much higher.

19 year olds end up in ICU all the time with heart inflammation.

Coincidental it was 5 days after his second jab?

Clear as day there is a link.

I remember the same arguments with AZ a month ago.

Would it stop me taking either? No

Because blood clots and heart inflammation much more likely if you contracted Covid.

funnydoggy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I got my first dose of pfizer today after declining j&j several times over just under a week. The system works. Happy days

Why not a one-and-done? Not arguing just genuinely surprised at that opinion!