Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Marcusm

Rosereynolds wrote: »

Ok sounds like a plan. I’m not too worried, one jab is highly effective, not too pushed if I ever get the second, just getting a green cert will make life easier for travel

The U.K. has a standard 12 week gap between doses of Pfizer and is showing good antibody response in older cohorts. Your issue will be that, for your return, you won’t qualify for an exemption from PCR test. My husband will have same issue as we’ll head off at beginning of July and stay away until late September. I’m fully doses but he will likely only have one.

is_that_so

Flying Fox wrote: »

It's not come out of the blue, it's as a result of the NIAC letter to the CMO referencing the latest data re: clots following a second dose.

It's also the INMO doing what they do and they did try to tell the HSE what to do the first time. The AZ advice on the second jabs under 60s with no underlying conditions still applies. Bear in mind too that a huge chunk of that HCW/Group 2 cohort are not INMO members.

Lumen

I'd have no issue with HCWs doing swapsies on their second doses as long as the spare AZ doses were offered to us proles with a reduced dosing gap e.g. 6 weeks.

On a 12 week schedule they're going to be difficult to shift.

JPup

is_that_so wrote: »

It's also the INMO doing what they do and they did try to tell the HSE what to do the first time. The AZ advice on the second jabs under 60s with no underlying conditions still applies.

It still applies unless it changes, which it might in light of the new information.

If you are a 30 year old nurse, your risk of dying from Covid is now probably lower than from getting a second dose of AZ. So very hard to justify giving that person the vaccine in that basis.

revelman

Flying Fox wrote: »

It's not come out of the blue, it's as a result of the NIAC letter to the CMO referencing the latest data re: clots following a second dose. That is new, as it shows the incidence rate is higher than initially thought.

I wonder what data they are using. The last MHRA report from 19th May states that the rate is 1.6 per million for second doses but it is not yet possible to determine whether that rate will go up as younger people get their second dose.

is_that_so

JPup wrote: »

It still applies unless it changes, which it might in light of the new information.

If you are a 30 year old nurse, your risk of dying from Covid is now probably lower than from getting a second dose of AZ. So very hard to justify giving that person the vaccine in that basis.

It's the INMO looking after its own members, again. They kicked up a stink when members weren't being vaccinated and then when AZ was the vaccine they had another hissy fit.

bennyineire

Still no work on the portal opening for 40 to 44 yet?

Surely then know now when they are going too, why can't they tell us. This drip feed of information is so maddening

RavenBea17b

Woody79 wrote: »

19 year olds end up in ICU all the time with heart inflammation.

Coincidental it was 5 days after his second jab?

Clear as day there is a link.

I remember the same arguments with AZ a month ago.

Would it stop me taking either? No

Because blood clots and heart inflammation much more likely if you contracted Covid.

Like all medications and vaccines there are possible side effects and risk.
Taking an aspirin or paracetamol has risk - but most people take them without any hesitancy for the most.

There are known public cases in Israel, USA (first noted in US army) and France. Majority were men, within 3-5 days after second jab.

I assume more detailed data is being captured as it is now on the 'radar' to be checked, plus increasing younger age groups are now being vaccinated worldwide - so expect those numbers to increase. Think I saw something mentioning pericarditis mentioned - something about the lining of the heart.

Still getting my vaccine.

RavenBea17b

JPup wrote: »

It still applies unless it changes, which it might in light of the new information.

If you are a 30 year old nurse, your risk of dying from Covid is now probably lower than from getting a second dose of AZ. So very hard to justify giving that person the vaccine in that basis.

What -!!!!!!!! that is quite the statement - where did you get that from, what basis please!!!!! :mad:

Widescreen

I am in plus 60 category, underlying condition-

Had first dose of AZ start of April. Based on these latest findings I have no interest now in getting AZ 2nd dose (due in 5 weeks).

Reason being, India variant. I think up to 66% efficacy after 2nd dose AZ whilst up to 88% with a mRNA 2nd dose instead. So I think I would now prefer Moderna or Pfizer 2nd dose

Has to be a no brainer, otherwise all the 60-69 people will be less protected than the under 69's - crazy stuff!

Lets face it, if I had a 34% chance of winning the lotto I would by a ticket every week , but not if only 12%.

RavenBea17b

Rosereynolds wrote: »

Ok sounds like a plan. I’m not too worried, one jab is highly effective, not too pushed if I ever get the second, just getting a green cert will make life easier for travel

You wont be issued a green cert without a second dose, subject to the vaccine you receive.

Rebelbrowser

bennyineire wrote: »

Still no work on the portal opening for 40 to 44 yet?

Surely then know now when they are going too, why can't they tell us. This drip feed of information is so maddening

Agree, it's head wrecking. Really surprised how little people are asking either. Last official statement was it would be open by now. We've had two leaks since, the latest saying it will open next week. Is it too much to ask for official confirmation of the position?

Wolf359f

Widescreen wrote: »

I am in plus 60 category, underlying condition-

Had first dose of AZ start of April. Based on these latest findings I have no interest now in getting AZ 2nd dose (due in 5 weeks).

Reason being, India variant. I think up to 66% efficacy after 2nd dose AZ whilst up to 88% with a mRNA 2nd dose instead. So I think I would now prefer Moderna or Pfizer 2nd dose

Has to be a no brainer, otherwise all the 60-69 people will be less protected than the under 69's - crazy stuff!

I'm not sure you have a choice of what vaccine to mix and match with.
Do you even know what the efficacy vs the Indian strain is with a first dose AZ and second dose mRNA?

RavenBea17b

RavenBea17b wrote: »

What -!!!!!!!! that is quite the statement - where did you get that from, what basis please!!!!! :mad:

Calm down.

There is plenty of data out there about the risk v benefit for AZ across various age groups. This data has informed regulators' decisions to place restrictions on AZ. See MHRA, Winton Centre, EMA, etc.

The risk of harm from AZ is higher for a 30 year old than the risk from covid. Especially when the person already has a first dose giving them a certain level of protection.

revelman

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

Agree, it's head wrecking. Really surprised how little people are asking either. Last official statement was it would be open by now. We've had two leaks since, the latest saying it will open next week. Is it too much to ask for official confirmation of the position?

I’d say it is virtually certain that this will be part of Martin’s announcement today. I’m not sure what time he is going before the cameras. It is usually around time of 6 one news.

stephenjmcd

Widescreen wrote: »

I am in plus 60 category, underlying condition-

Had first dose of AZ start of April. Based on these latest findings I have no interest now in getting AZ 2nd dose (due in 5 weeks).

Reason being, India variant. I think up to 66% efficacy after 2nd dose AZ whilst up to 88% with a mRNA 2nd dose instead. So I think I would now prefer Moderna or Pfizer 2nd dose

Has to be a no brainer, otherwise all the 60-69 people will be less protected than the under 69's - crazy stuff!

Lets face it, if I had a 34% chance of winning the lotto I would by a ticket every week , but not if only 12%.

You don't have that option. As it stands you'll be called for your 2nd dose in 5 weeks time.

AZ, Pfizer, Moderna, they'll all do the same thing and keep you from getting seriously ill. The goal with vaccines isn't to stop you getting covid, it never was, it's to stop the serious side effects and impact of it. If it means getting the feeling of a head cold or feeling crap for a few days so be it.

I'd prefer 1 shot J&J and done, but I don't have that option.

Rebelbrowser

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

Agree, it's head wrecking. Really surprised how little people are asking either. Last official statement was it would be open by now. We've had two leaks since, the latest saying it will open next week. Is it too much to ask for official confirmation of the position?

It's head wrecking that the question is asked repeatedly in here. We know it will be open next week. Have a bit of patience.

Pauliedragon

bennyineire wrote: »

Still no work on the portal opening for 40 to 44 yet?

Surely then know now when they are going too, why can't they tell us. This drip feed of information is so maddening

Big problem with supply apparantly fromJ&J. WE were promised 600K doses for June but it'll be between 60k and and 270k.

Azatadine

JPup wrote: »

It still applies unless it changes, which it might in light of the new information.

If you are a 30 year old nurse, your risk of dying from Covid is now probably lower than from getting a second dose of AZ. So very hard to justify giving that person the vaccine in that basis.

This thread is now officially gone to the dogs.....risk of dying from second jab of AZ greater than dying from Covid no less....

revelman

Widescreen wrote: »

I am in plus 60 category, underlying condition-

Had first dose of AZ start of April. Based on these latest findings I have no interest now in getting AZ 2nd dose (due in 5 weeks).

Reason being, India variant. I think up to 66% efficacy after 2nd dose AZ whilst up to 88% with a mRNA 2nd dose instead. So I think I would now prefer Moderna or Pfizer 2nd dose

Has to be a no brainer, otherwise all the 60-69 people will be less protected than the under 69's - crazy stuff!

Lets face it, if I had a 34% chance of winning the lotto I would by a ticket every week , but not if only 12%.

I’ve read the PHE study. First, the scientists expect that the real efficacy rate is higher. The issue is it takes longer for antibody and T-Cell response in case of AZ. Secondly, the scientists fully expect the rate of protection against severe COVID from Indian variant (leading to hospitalisation and death) to be much much higher, potentially knocking on the door of 100%. They simply don’t have the data yet.

Azatadine

Azatadine wrote: »

This thread is now officially gone to the dogs.....risk of dying from second jab of AZ greater than dying from Covid no less....

For younger age groups that is likely the case.

Go and read the data. There's tons of it out there.

Webmechanic

I asked in a different thread, but possibly not the correct one, does anyone know the actual age that's getting vaccinated in DIFE in Drogheda at the moment? I'm 56 and been waiting for three weeks and getting a bit anxious now with the lack of clear info. As I've often heard, 'it's the hope that gets you'.

stephenjmcd

EMA press conference due around 1pm our time. Latest discussion & decisions could include Pfizer approval from 12-15 year olds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ix5DYqtz8k

revelman

Flying Fox wrote: »

Calm down.

There is plenty of data out there about the risk v benefit for AZ across various age groups. This data has informed regulators' decisions to place restrictions on AZ. See MHRA, Winton Centre, EMA, etc.

The risk of harm from AZ is higher for a 30 year old than the risk from covid. Especially when the person already has a first dose giving them a certain level of protection.

I think you are correct on first dose (with the caveat that there is a low rate of COVID circulating in the community and not taking into account potential effects of long COVID). But in their last report, MHRA says that we simply can’t determine risk related to second dose because not enough young people have received it. So far, the risk of CVST is 1.6 in 1 million following second dose. And we have to take into account background rates of CVST that might have happened in any case. The theory is that if you tolerate the first dose, you should tolerate the second.

Azatadine

Azatadine wrote: »

This thread is now officially gone to the dogs.....risk of dying from second jab of AZ greater than dying from Covid no less....

Well, you might not like it but it is actually true. The UK authorities laid it out very clearly when they restricted use to over 30s (and later over 40s). During a period where case numbers are low the risk from the vaccine in people under 30 was greater than the risk from the disease.

This could change if the spread of the disease increased to levels seen before and the risk from the disease may outweigh the risk from the vaccine.

Wolf359f

revelman wrote: »

I’ve read the PHE study. First, the scientists expect that the real efficacy rate is higher. The issue is it takes longer for antibody and T-Cell response in case of AZ. Secondly, the scientists fully expect the rate of protection against severe COVID from Indian variant (leading to hospitalisation and death) to be much much higher, potentially knocking on the door of 100%. They simply don’t have the data yet.

There's far too little data collected so far, especially with those with 2 doses. Taking the data as is as gospel, will show mortality rate with both jabs vs unvaccinated is about 10 times higher. Which of course is completely untrue. I best not post that, George Lee will pick that up as vaccines not working at all at reducing deaths!

revelman

revelman wrote: »

I think you are correct on first dose (with the caveat that there is a low rate of COVID circulating in the community and not taking into account potential effects of long COVID). But in their last report, MHRA says that we simply can’t determine risk related to second dose because not enough young people have received it. So far, the risk of CVST is 1.6 in 1 million following second dose. And we have to take into account background rates of CVST that might have happened in any case. The theory is that if you tolerate the first dose, you should tolerate the second.

We'll see how the situation develops as the second dose is rolled out in greater numbers to younger people.

Even if the risk is lower than that of the first dose, the risk from covid is also lower because a good level of protection has been provided by the first jab. It's still a fine balance.

Stark

Looks like we won't be seeing Curevac until late June at the earliest https://seekingalpha.com/news/3700399-curevac-to-finalize-regulatory-submission-for-covid-19-vaccine-in-2-3-weeks

ddarcy

Flying Fox wrote: »

We'll see how the situation develops as the second dose is rolled out in greater numbers to younger people.

Even if the risk is lower than that of the first dose, the risk from covid is also lower because a good level of protection has been provided by the first jab. It's still a fine balance.

Yeah currently the issue is being seen in 60+. So there will be an expectation that the clots will grow as they start going down into younger groups. My understanding so far is that the clots are actually greater in the 60+ group then when they had the first dose. So will be interesting to monitor. We could see official union advice to not take the second dose, so could get interesting

MerlinSouthDub

Stark wrote: »

Looks like we won't be seeing Curevac until late June at the earliest https://seekingalpha.com/news/3700399-curevac-to-finalize-regulatory-submission-for-covid-19-vaccine-in-2-3-weeks

That is both good and bad news. It is good news because the more effective a vaccine is, the longer it will take to get to the required number of infections.