Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Our front line health workers were given anything just to give them some sort of protection at the peak of pandemic. These workers are all age groups. It's now known that there are safer options for them and particularly the younger ones. It's now known that the 2nd jab carries more risk than originally thought.

If it's safer for our front line staff to get 2nd dose with a different vaccine then this is what we should do. It's the least that they deserve. This is a no brainer imo. If it slows down the roll out by a week or so then so be it.

I work in a vaccination centre and we were vaccinating a cohort of HCW this week from a large local hospital. You are right. They are all age groups. The youngest was 23 year old, right up to early 60's.....but the vast majority were under 60. It certainly did cross my mind that a lot of these staff were coming in straight off a 12 hour night shift looking exhausted were getting a vaccine that is no longer recommended to people under 60!!

Gile_na_gile

is_that_so wrote: »

Wednesday was suggested.

Thanks, was it in the address? I missed it. Seems really late for opening so I guess there is a lot going on behind the scenes. I'll be nearly into the next cohort by the time it opens

Goldengirl

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Are people still complaining about AZ? Take what you're given.

Well roll it out then !

stephenjmcd

Goldengirl wrote: »

This..is just what I have been saying is incorrect, sorry.
We know and you have said it yourself earlier in the thread today to another poster, that 2 doses are necessary for protection .
It is more important that those at highest risk of serious illness and death , older , vulnerable and healthcare workers are protected if there is going to be any talk of opening up to UK or areas with a high percentage of variants that may evade vaccination with one dose.
Protect these people first fully then everything else follows.

I've read your replies, what's the problem with what I've posted? All I've stated is they'll get AZ as planned, that's fact as of now.

They'll get the 2nd dose of AZ. Nothing has changed. I don't see the reason for uproar.

The advice was recently changed from 16 weeks to 12, give them a chance to get the appointments scheduled before giving out about it.

HCW will get dose 2 of AZ like everyone else that got dose 1 (my father is one of them) will as per current advice

I'll leave it at that because I don't want to have a row with you as I in general agree with you and respect your opinions.

is_that_so

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Thanks, was it in the address? I missed it. Seems really late for opening so I guess there is a lot going on behind the scenes. I'll be nearly into the next cohort by the time it opens

Not sure. Think it was mentioned during the week, could have been Leo.

ACitizenErased

Is the AZ not an effective vaccine all of a sudden? Last I heard it's almost 100% effective at preventing serious illness. What's the problem?

JTMan

The EMA have said it is up to each country as to whether to give vaccines to 12-15 year olds to each country as the FT reports here (paywall).

EMA, said it would be up to each member state to decide “if and when” to use the vaccine on adolescents in the future.

“It is up to them to decide whether they want to restrict the use just in adolescents who are at higher risk of Covid-19 because of comorbidities or other factors, versus using this vaccine in a broader population,” he added.

So the ball is firmly with NIAC to green light vaccines to 12-15 year olds. Hopefully the NIAC green light this for all in this age group.

In Germany ...

Germany on Thursday announced plans to allow children aged 12 and over to receive the jab once vaccine priorities are lifted on June 7.

Goldengirl

Deleted User wrote: »

I work in a vaccination centre and we were vaccinating a cohort of HCW this week from a large local hospital. You are right. They are all age groups. The youngest was 23 year old, right up to early 60's.....but the vast majority were under 60. It certainly did cross my mind that a lot of these staff were coming in straight off a 12 hour night shift looking exhausted were getting a vaccine that is no longer recommended to people under 60!!

Thank you for that nice post SM .
Because they are being professional , and supporting the HSE and NIAC and trust in these people to look out for their best interests.
I have to say were it not for the respect for Karina Butler and some others on the committee a lot more young HCWs might have rejected AZ but so far so good
Not every nurse is a member of or supports the INMO in everything , but in this case it is take whatever you are being given despite there being alternatives as in other countries.

SJFly

Rket4000 wrote: »

If your high risk teenager is 16 or older you should contact your GP - they might get it that way. And just because the EMA has approved it for 12-15, doesn't mean it'll automatically be recommended in each individual country

No, she's 15 so still not officially approved. There was already an announcement a few days ago that if EMA approved, NIAC would look into recommending for high risk and those that live with adults with compromised immunity. It's a small group I would say, but an important one.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Is the AZ not an effective vaccine all of a sudden? Last I heard it's almost 100% effective at preventing serious illness. What's the problem?

NIAC and their countless repositioning.

We are all taking a small chance with any of these vaccines.

They think changing AZ position 15 times means the public will have confidence
that they are watching things closely.

How about watching closely and saying alot less.

How many people have died?

Rket4000

SJFly wrote: »

No, she's 15 so still not officially approved. There was already an announcement a few days ago that if EMA approved, NIAC would look into recommending for high risk and those that live with adults with compromised immunity. It's a small group I would say, but an important one.

Absolutely - Hope you get news soon

Goldengirl

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I've read your replies, what's the problem with what I've posted? All I've stated is they'll get AZ as planned, that's fact as of now.

They'll get the 2nd dose of AZ. Nothing has changed. I don't see the reason for uproar.

The advice was recently changed from 16 weeks to 12, give them a chance to get the appointments scheduled before giving out about it.

HCW will get dose 2 of AZ like everyone else that got dose 1 (my father is one of them) will as per current advice

I'll leave it at that because I don't want to have a row with you as I in general agree with you and respect your opinions.

Fair enough , and likewise.
If the vaccines are rolled out promptly it is going to be a non event , but it is the combination of the news of further delays along with a good number of people waiting longer than the stated 12 weeks for second doses, that has sparked this along with further news from NIAC that the 2nd dose may carry higher risk of TTS than previously thought .
This obviously impacts younger HCWs.
It has been reported on the news tonight also and discussions have been had about giving mRNA second doses so not talking off the cuff here.
Just waiting fir NIAC to make a decision about it .

JTMan

SJFly wrote: »

No, she's 15 so still not officially approved. There was already an announcement a few days ago that if EMA approved, NIAC would look into recommending for high risk and those that live with adults with compromised immunity. It's a small group I would say, but an important one.

NIAC said that restricting use to those with certain conditions/high risk was a possibility for 12-15 year olds. The other possibility is that vaccines are available to all 12-15 year olds without conditions. I hope NIAC choose the latter.

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

Incorrect, as even younger nurses at higher risk than most others .
That risk from studies by CDC is estimated at almost twice that in general population.
We have had this borne out by 30% of healthcare workers being infected.
Estimates of risk were never applied for front facing healthcare workers as they were always intended to be vaccinated with the very vulnerable .

See the Winton Centre data, the risk for a 30 year old from the AZ vaccine is multiple times higher than the risk from covid (when circulation is low). Being a nurse does increase the risk from covid, but the risk v benefit question is still not straightforward.

I think we're on the same page anyway. I'm saying that healthcare workers should be protected and the INMO are reasonable to raise concerns about AZ. They are doing that based on the latest safety data that NIAC referenced in their letter to the CMO. The possibility of giving an mRNA vaccine as a second dose should be explored.

ACitizenErased

Varadkar says the aim is 60% fully vaccinated by end of July.

Hooter23

Suggestions of what to do with people that have voluntary had the DNA mutating vaccine...should we (A) put them in the zoo with the monkeys ... or (B) put them in a travelling circus

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

Fair enough , and likewise.
If the vaccines are rolled out promptly it is going to be a non event , but it is the combination of the news of further delays along with a good number of people waiting longer than the stated 12 weeks for second doses, that has sparked this along with further news from NIAC that the 2nd dose may carry higher risk of TTS than previously thought .
This obviously impacts younger HCWs.
It has been reported on the news tonight also and discussions have been had about giving mRNA second doses so not talking off the cuff here.
Just waiting fir NIAC to make a decision about it .

The risks are miniscule
Theres no need to be dwelling on those or being run over by a car
Avoiding corona or a car crash by staying at home is not a long term option
Some people are more prone to worry,its a handicap if its about such extremely rare events
The important thing is to get your protection up as high as it can be Asap

Sammy2012

Seen as the 40 to 44 age group are opening next week does anyone have any idea how long it'll be until the 35 to 39 can register? Will they have started vaccinating this age group by the end of June?

is_that_so

Hopefully the next stage may be about to get underway, getting vaccines to the rest of the world, with the French offering more support to Africa. EU will also send 100m vaccines this year.

President Emmanuel Macron said on Friday France would invest in boosting the production of COVID-19 vaccines in Africa, to help close a gap in the availability of the shots between African and Western nations.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/macron-says-france-will-help-africa-make-more-covid-19-vaccines-locally-2021-05-28/

is_that_so

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Seen as the 40 to 44 age group are opening next week does anyone have any idea how long it'll be until the 35 to 39 can register? Will they have started vaccinating this age group by the end of June?

It might be longer now with uncertainty over J&J deliveries but there could also be a new vaccine in July!

Marine Layer

Marine Layer wrote: »

The risks are miniscule
Theres no need to be dwelling on those or being run over by a car
Avoiding corona or a car crash by staying at home is not a long term option
Some people are more prone to worry,its a handicap if its about such extremely rare events
The important thing is to get your protection up as high as it can be Asap

A lot of sense spoken there.:cool:

Sammy2012

is_that_so wrote: »

It might be longer now with uncertainty over J&J deliveries but there could also be a new vaccine in July!

First time in my life Im wishing I was older. But we will just wait and see! Hopefully they will have moved on to that age group and if there is a new vaccine it will be approved by the EMA.

Galwayguy35

is_that_so wrote: »

Hopefully the next stage may be about to get underway, getting vaccines to the rest of the world, with the French offering more support to Africa. EU will also send 100m vaccines this year.




https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/macron-says-france-will-help-africa-make-more-covid-19-vaccines-locally-2021-05-28/

Well if they send them over they better take them, Sky News was in one of the Aftrican countries last week and they said its looking like a lot of the doses will have to be dumped because nobody wants the jab.

Goldengirl

Woody79 wrote: »

NIAC and their countless repositioning.

We are all taking a small chance with any of these vaccines.

They think changing AZ position 15 times means the public will have confidence
that they are watching things closely.

How about watching closely and saying alot less.

How many people have died?

While I am in agreement with your point about changing positions , the view can also be taken that people have not died from AZ severe AE because of NIAC acting swiftly when they got wind of any issues and limiting its use to over 60s then over 50s.
Doesn't do much for confidence in younger nurses but as I said previously they trust in NIAC.
So far that trust has been positively rewarded and hopefully it will continue .

Goldengirl

Flying Fox wrote: »

See the Winton Centre data, the risk for a 30 year old from the AZ vaccine is multiple times higher than the risk from covid (when circulation is low). Being a nurse does increase the risk from covid, but the risk v benefit question is still not straightforward.

I think we're on the same page anyway. I'm saying that healthcare workers should be protected and the INMO are reasonable to raise concerns about AZ. They are doing that based on the latest safety data that NIAC referenced in their letter to the CMO. The possibility of giving an mRNA vaccine as a second dose should be explored.

Yes fired back as was annoyed by one particular anti nurse poster, not you and Stephen really , ye just got caught up in that particular storm !
I have edited my post in reply to you .
We agree , I think .

Goldengirl

Marine Layer wrote: »

The risks are miniscule
Theres no need to be dwelling on those or being run over by a car
Avoiding corona or a car crash by staying at home is not a long term option
Some people are more prone to worry,its a handicap if its about such extremely rare events
The important thing is to get your protection up as high as it can be Asap

Who are you talking to here because I think this post is addressed to the wrong person ?

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

While I am in agreement with your point about changing positions , the view can also be taken that people have not died from AZ severe AE because of NIAC acting swiftly when they got wind of any issues and limiting its use to over 60s then over 50s.
Doesn't do much for confidence in younger nurses but as I said previously they trust in NIAC.
So far that trust has been positively rewarded and hopefully it will continue .

OR the risk is so tiny that not enough people in Ireland have been or ever will be getting Astrazenica here for there to be a death

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

While I am in agreement with your point about changing positions , the view can also be taken that people have not died from AZ severe AE because of NIAC acting swiftly when they got wind of any issues and limiting its use to over 60s then over 50s.
Doesn't do much for confidence in younger nurses but as I said previously they trust in NIAC.
So far that trust has been positively rewarded and hopefully it will continue .

Alot more AZ has been given out in NI with alot less public discussion on the rights and wrongs of AZ and who it is safe for or not.

How many people have died there of AZ blood clots? Possibly 1 at most.

Not sure I agree with your points of NIAC trust.

If I was a HCW in republic and got 1st dose AZ and left in limbo now my trust in NIAC would be on the low side.

Same HCW in NI would be given second dose after 10 weeks.

Over 50's it is 8 weeks there.

Limboland for HCWs in republic would be over if the same position was taken.

NIACs endless repositioning on AZ has not saved lives or increased confidence in vaccines in my opinion given NI situation.

I'm not a fan of Karina Butler.

She seems very unsure of herself.


https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2021-04-15/two-people-suffer-rare-blood-clot-in-ni-after-almost-1-million-people-receive-oxfordastrazeneca-jab

Cork2021

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Varadkar says the aim is 60% fully vaccinated by end of July.

Is that just adults or population as a whole?

Cork2021

Cork2021 wrote: »

Is that just adults or population as a whole?

Adults,2 doses of astr(or 1 month after 1st astra),pfizer or moderna or 1 shot jaansen fully vaccinated.
(1st dose inc 2nd dose total probably over 80 by then)