Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Qrt

Anyone hear what was said about colleges going back in September at the press conference after the announcement? I’d be happy to have a “vaccinated? Welcome! Not vaccinated? Do it from home or do tests on campus” policy. I just cannot do another term in my bedroom. I just can’t.

Goldengirl

Woody79 wrote: »

Alot more AZ has been given out in NI with alot less public discussion on the rights and wrongs of AZ and who it is safe for or not.

How many people have died there of AZ blood clots?

Not sure I agree with your points of NIAC trust.

If I was a HCW in republic and got 1st dose AZ and left in limbo now my trust in NIAC would be on the low side.

Same HCW in NI would be given second dose after 10 weeks.

Over 50's it is 8 weeks there.

Limboland for HCWs in republic would be over if the same position was taken.

NIACs endless repositioning on AZ has not saved lives or increased confidence in vaccines in my opinion given NI situation.

I'm not a fan of Karina Butler.

She seems very unsure of herself.

NI is a different jurisdiction with a rollout based largely on AZ and Pfizer .
Also not the same supply issues.
Supply is nothing to do with NIAC .
UK did not even notice that there were issues at all with AZ until EMA and NIAC noted it , so no , would not be massively trusting them over NIAC .
Also they brought back their doses to 8 weeks in response to the Indian variant as you know .
We are not in that position here yet , as long as they get 2nd doses as recommended into people at 12 weeks most will be happy .
The problem is the delays and the new questions about 2nd doses.
Professor Karina Butler is highly respected by anyone who knows anything in both healthcare and Paediatric circles .
If she apoears uncertain ( which I don't agree with, btw ) it's because there are uncertainties , but you can be guaranteed that they will make decisions based on best available research and that is more important than appearing ultra cool on the telly

Goldengirl

Qrt wrote: »

Anyone hear what was said about colleges going back in September at the press conference after the announcement? I’d be happy to have a “vaccinated? Welcome! Not vaccinated? Do it from home or do tests on campus” policy. I just cannot do another term in my bedroom. I just can’t.

I heard " back in September " but that was Ryan talking about transport for college students .

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

NI is a different jurisdiction with a rollout based largely on AZ and Pfizer .
Also not the same supply issues.
Supply is nothing to do with NIAC .
UK did not even notice that there were issues at all with AZ until EMA and NIAC noted it , so no , would not be massively trusting them over NIAC .
Also they brought back their doses to 8 weeks in response to the Indian variant as you know .
We are not in that position here yet , as long as they get 2nd doses as recommended into people at 12 weeks most will be happy .
The problem is the delays and the new questions about 2nd doses.
Professor Karina Butler is highly respected by anyone who knows anything in both healthcare and Paediatric circles .
If she apoears uncertain ( which I don't agree with, btw ) it's because there are uncertainties , but you can be guaranteed that they will make decisions based on best available research and that is more important than appearing ultra cool on the telly

There will be HCWs in republic not fully vaccinating until June 2021.

That is a disgrace.

That is not down to:

Supply issues, EMA, or anyone else.

NIAC have moved the length of gaps between doses (as well as cohorts that I already spoke about) several times up and down up again etc. That is why they are not full vaccinated now.

drunkmonkey

Goldengirl wrote: »

I heard " back in September " but that was Ryan talking about transport for college students .

I didn't watch it any mention of swimming pools, taking the kids to the beach over the weekend and they still can't swim, really need to get them into a pool again.

km79

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I didn't watch it any mention of swimming pools, taking the kids to the beach over the weekend and they still can't swim, really need to get them into a pool again.

I thought that was announced last time around for June 7th
Here it is actually
Gyms, swimming pools, leisure centres can reopen for individual training only

Individual training only?

Goldengirl

Woody79 wrote: »

There will be HCWs in republic not fully vaccinating until June 2021.

That is a disgrace.

That is not down to:

Supply issues, EMA, or anyone else.

NIAC have moved the length of gaps between doses (as well as cohorts that I already spoke about) several times up and down up again etc. That is why they are not full vaccinated now.

It is a disgrace. HCWs and others needing quick and full protection should have been given the vaccine which has been shown to be the most reliable supply wise...Pfizer , and when questions arose over AZ , it should have been paused for younger HCWs , just like those other younger members of the public , and second dose mRNA given .

Look I am not getting into a debate with you about NIAC . They made decisions based on safety and best available evidence at the time , which is what is expected of them by most people . If you or anyone else think you can do it better off you go .

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

It is a disgrace. HCWs and others needing quick and full protection should have been given the vaccine which has been shown to be the most reliable supply wise...Pfizer , and when questions arose over AZ , it should have been paused for younger HCWs .
Look I am not getting into a debate with you about NIAC . They made decisions based on safety which is what is expected of them by most people . If you or anyone else think you can do it better off you go .

We'll leave it there.

We both agree HCWs should be fully vaccinated at this stage.

We are not going to agree on how we got here.

At this stage I think it should be done quickly, quietly and without fuss for the sake of those HCW's and the vaccination rollout in general.

Hopefully Tony can get the balance right as NIAC's recent letter is more questions than answers. Not a helpful letter for the vaccine rollout or for Tony.

For a group (NIAC) that always talks of caution and conservatism suggesting mixing vaccines with limited enough data is a real head scratcher.

At this stage she is basically saying I hate AZ, which the WHO or EMA are not saying.

She is digging a very big hole for herself and further erroding confidence in a vaccine given to hundreds of thousands of people in ireland.

astrofool

Goldengirl wrote: »

It is a disgrace. HCWs and others needing quick and full protection should have been given the vaccine which has been shown to be the most reliable supply wise...Pfizer , and when questions arose over AZ , it should have been paused for younger HCWs , just like those other younger members of the public , and second dose mRNA given .

Look I am not getting into a debate with you about NIAC . They made decisions based on safety and best available evidence at the time , which is what is expected of them by most people . If you or anyone else think you can do it better off you go .

a) back when HCW were getting vaccinated over 70's weren't able to get AZ because of missing trial data, giving HCW Pfizer would literally have meant those very at risk dying waiting for vaccines
b) back when HCW were getting vaccinated, the only others being vaccinated were those at very high risk of COVID, they were getting vaccines before everyone else
c) HCW in general are of an age where they are at very low risk to serious COVID, the main reason for HCW getting vaccinated first was to ensure that hospital capacity was not reduced due to many HCW isolating after contracting SARS-COV2, this was also the reason why all HCW were targeted and not just those who would be working closest with patients
d) The reason for the long gap between doses of AZ is that gives the best immune response after testing and trials, by reducing the gap, the immune response can be less than what it could be, the profiles of effectiveness is different for each vaccine and dosing is intended to get the best response possible over the long term, the short term efficacy of AZ after a few weeks is good enough to avoid serious COVID especially in the HCW age groups.

Wolf359f

astrofool wrote: »

a) back when HCW were getting vaccinated over 70's weren't able to get AZ because of missing trial data, giving HCW Pfizer would literally have meant those very at risk dying waiting for vaccines
b) back when HCW were getting vaccinated, the only others being vaccinated were those at very high risk of COVID, they were getting vaccines before everyone else
c) HCW in general are of an age where they are at very low risk to serious COVID, the main reason for HCW getting vaccinated first was to ensure that hospital capacity was not reduced due to many HCW isolating after contracting SARS-COV2, this was also the reason why all HCW were targeted and not just those who would be working closest with patients
d) The reason for the long gap between doses of AZ is that gives the best immune response after testing and trials, by reducing the gap, the immune response can be less than what it could be, the profiles of effectiveness is different for each vaccine and dosing is intended to get the best response possible over the long term, the short term efficacy of AZ after a few weeks is good enough to avoid serious COVID especially in the HCW age groups.

Well put. I think people actually forget how ****ed up the initial rollout was, between lack of data on AZ in the elderly, lack of supplies of all vaccines. It certainly was a sloppy, slow and bumpy start.

Turtwig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I put the blame with NIAC...

1. Not safe for over 70's

No matter how many times you post this crap it will still remain false. NIAC never said AZ was unsafe for over 70s.

There was a legitimate question of vaccine efficacy in the over 70s due to the lack of trial participants in this age cohort.

Turtwig

Turtwig wrote: »

No matter how many times you post this crap it will still remain false. NIAC never said AZ was unsafe for over 70s.

There was a legitimate question of vaccine efficacy in the over 70s due to the lack of trial participants in this age cohort.

They are now suggesting mixing vaccines based on extensive long term evidence?

You can't have it both ways.

Were they right not to give it to over 70's?

Are they right to mix vaccines?

This is not a dress rehearsal.

People are affected by these decisions.

Turtwig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They are now suggesting mixing vaccines based on extensive long term evidence?

You can't have it both ways.

I don't care. Can you at least acknowledge one falsehood you have posted over and over. If you can't do this. There's no point in addressing others you are making.

Like, here again you just deflect to a different topic.

Show me where NIAC said AZ was unsafe for over 70s.

Turtwig

Turtwig wrote: »

I don't care. Can you at least acknowledge one falsehood you have posted over and over. If you can't do this. There's no point in addressing others you are making.

Like, here again you just deflect to a different topic.

Show me where NIAC said AZ was unsafe for over 70s.

To Joe public that's the message it sends out.

It was not available to over 70s due to .......

I know you don't care.

Turtwig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To Joe public that's the message it sends out.

It was not available to over 70s due to .......

I know you don't care.

Why don't you clarify the message to Joe public then? Why are you repeatedly stating the misunderstanding over and over again that AZ was deemed unsafe for over 70s. It never was.
That's not helping Joe public.

You should give Joe public a bit more credit too.

Strazdas

Turtwig wrote: »

No matter how many times you post this crap it will still remain false. NIAC never said AZ was unsafe for over 70s.

There was a legitimate question of vaccine efficacy in the over 70s due to the lack of trial participants in this age cohort.

Yes, they had insufficient trial data for the over 70s, that was the only reason it was not given. They never actually discovered any issue with giving AZ to people of that age.

Turtwig

revelman wrote: »

Again, sorry but this is similar to the post before. What evidence? The MHRA says it is difficult to compare first and second doses given the number of second doses that have been given. Currently the risk is 1.6 per 1 million for second doses. Some theorise that you tolerate the first dose, you are likely to tolerate the second and therefore risk is lower. But we simply don’t have the data to conclude either way. At least, as far as I’m aware. So what is this mounting evidence?

Mounting evidence was bad wording. I retract that. Not the remainder of my overall point. The early indication is AZ second dose carries a degree of risk comparable possibly equivalent to the first.

I'll try to respond to this in detail in a few days.
I would briefly say what is the assumption that the people who tolerate the first dose will tolerate the second based on? How did MHRA original stats for the first dose look back in March compared to now? Is there a parallel with the second doses only being more recent and largely in older age cohorts.

joefinnegan

Ha Long Bay wrote: »

yes you can log in and you get a code back to the phone you registered to..enter that and you will see what stage your vaccine regisistration is at..in fairness there is very little to see really on it...it makes you feel better checking I suppose..

amandstu

Seems there is about 33% protection in this case


What does that 33% protection cover against and what might be the figure that would apply for severe /serious illness ,hospitalization or death ?

Thanks

Charles Babbage

is_that_so wrote: »

It might be longer now with uncertainty over J&J deliveries but there could also be a new vaccine in July!

Curevac should be here in late June, but who knows how much.

Wolf359f

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Curevac should be here in late June, but who knows how much.

I wouldn't hold by breath, was early May, late May, early June, now late June.....
They haven't even released their phase 3 results. When they do that, hey still need to apply for approval. They still haven't announced how many doses they have available and ready to deliver.

The world needs to stop hedging their bets, there's a single dose vaccine which is effective and cheap, the world should be mass producing J&J to get out of this pandemic. Then again, mRNA seem to be the only ones able to scale up on a massive scale rapidity, but more expensive.

duffman13

Curevac have been quiet recently. I'd seen some immunologist suggestions efficacy may not hit Pfizer/Moderna levels which is causing a few head scratches

I was vaccinated in March with AZ, 30s, more than happy to take 2nd dose as soon as its available. NIAC have been painful, EMA advice should have been followed imo

Wolf359f

duffman13 wrote: »

Curevac have been quiet recently. I'd seen some immunologist suggestions efficacy may not hit Pfizer/Moderna levels which is causing a few head scratches

I was vaccinated in March with AZ, 30s, more than happy to take 2nd dose as soon as its available. NIAC have been painful, EMA advice should have been followed imo

I haven't been following the recent NIAC advice, but for 60+ with AZ, it's a second dose after 12 weeks, previously NIAC recommended a 16 week gap for under 60, is that still the case? It's easy to dismiss the confusion, but about 60k Cohort 4 got AZ before the age restrictions, so clear advice from NIAC is needed.

Charles Babbage

Wolf359f wrote: »

I wouldn't hold by breath, was early May, late May, early June, now late June.....
They haven't even released their phase 3 results. When they do that, hey still need to apply for approval. They still haven't announced how many doses they have available and ready to deliver.

The world needs to stop hedging their bets, there's a single dose vaccine which is effective and cheap, the world should be mass producing J&J to get out of this pandemic. Then again, mRNA seem to be the only ones able to scale up on a massive scale rapidity, but more expensive.

Actually this came out a couple of hours ago

CureVac says its vaccine passed a first analysis but it has yet to release efficacy data. - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


It doesn't look like they will get the data in the next week or two, so may prove irrelevant to Irish vaccination campaign. Curevac being cheaper and easier to handle might have a role internationally, if production can be scaled.

nocoverart

amandstu wrote: »

Anyone else ,preferably less of a smartarse?

Everything is going to be A OK.

Never mind looking for stats with the Vaccines, they are great.

I think my local village has a variant at this stage. Scaremongering, exaggerating and trying to pull people back down within the media has been the worst symptom of Covid.

amandstu

nocoverart wrote: »

Everything is going to be A OK.

Never mind looking for stats with the Vaccines, they are great.

I think my local village has a variant at this stage. Scaremongering, exaggerating and trying to pull people back down within the media has been the worst symptom of Covid.

Thanks for the patronization. If you have nothing concrete to add ,don't bother.

Gremlinertia

Enough with the on thread bickering amandstu and nocoverart

Lumen

amandstu wrote: »

Seems there is about 33% protection in this case


What does that 33% protection cover against and what might be the figure that would apply for severe /serious illness ,hospitalization or death ?

Thanks

33% protection in which case?

Az isnt now the best vaccine in the light of the Indian variant but with a 2nd dose hcws will be well protected and as I understand it,its a growing protection in Az's case
By the time air travel is opened,remaining hcw's should have their Az protection bedded in and rising

Azatadine

Israel now 0.03% positivity rate!!

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1398391969911611393?s=09