Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Goldengirl

astrofool wrote: »

a) back when HCW were getting vaccinated over 70's weren't able to get AZ because of missing trial data, giving HCW Pfizer would literally have meant those very at risk dying waiting for vaccines
b) back when HCW were getting vaccinated, the only others being vaccinated were those at very high risk of COVID, they were getting vaccines before everyone else
c) HCW in general are of an age where they are at very low risk to serious COVID, the main reason for HCW getting vaccinated first was to ensure that hospital capacity was not reduced due to many HCW isolating after contracting SARS-COV2, this was also the reason why all HCW were targeted and not just those who would be working closest with patients
d) The reason for the long gap between doses of AZ is that gives the best immune response after testing and trials, by reducing the gap, the immune response can be less than what it could be, the profiles of effectiveness is different for each vaccine and dosing is intended to get the best response possible over the long term, the short term efficacy of AZ after a few weeks is good enough to avoid serious COVID especially in the HCW age groups.

Seeing as you quoted my post and proceeded to tell me in a very patronising way , information that not only do I know first hand but have experience of as a clinical lead nurse in critical care in a major public hospital , I will reply to you in a similar fashion....

a) Health care workers like myself were vaccinated with Pfizer at the beginning along with elderly patients in nursing homes. AZ wasn't in the mix as not authorised for another month .
Then when it was introduced and there was insufficient data to give it to the over 70s , it was the vaccine for HCWs , no debate there .

b) You state HCWs were vaccinated before anyone else ...Why was that , do you think ?
Because health care workers are more at risk of getting Covid than any other group in the general population, though thank goodness , less at risk of dying than elderly people .
Still some nurses have died here and other HCWs, and quite a few have become seriously ill and many are still sick or just recovering .
So why do you imply it is a privilege to get a vaccination so you can continue to work and care for sick people and be able to fo your job and be safe ?

c) " HCW in general are of an age when they are at low risk of serious illness" my axxe !
There are front facing HCWs of all ages in the service , some even over 65 ! Ffs .
Many colleagues of mine, along with myself are still flying around the hospitals and just as fast as any of the younger girls .
Some of us have underlying conditions due to our age that would put us in high risk groups along with the fact that our job puts us in danger .
If older nurses with all our knowledge and experience were taken out of some frontline services it would cause a major imbalance as we have young inexperienced nurses being trained up and mentored along side us, and also nurses with young families .
The reason of vaccinating to keep nurses on the frontline at work is of course one of the reasons , but also why should anyone have to work with infectious patients in a pandemic without adequate protection.
Again it is an absolute must, not a privilege !
Also very importantly , the other reason was so asymptomatic spread would be stopped , as hospital outbreaks were more likely when community transmission was highest .

d) As for this point , talk about pedantic.
Yes we know all about its effectiveness and the data showing that it increases as each week goes on, in fact I have said this myself in response to one or two as regards the latest data from PHE ( those bloods if taken a few more weeks later could tell a different tale for AZ , but still better to get 2nd dose promptly when due )
That is not the issue with AZ and nurses.

The issue is that
a) the 2nd doses were stretched out to 16 weeks for all who did not have underlying conditions, now brought back to 12 weeks apparently due to the risk of inadequate protection otherwise..
Unfortunately this is not happening as many HCWs are still waiting to be called for their 2nd doses and they are a few weeks after the 12weeks .

b) Why are younger HCWs being treated with less care than the general population and being told , not asked , and not being given a choice unlike others , that it is AZ they are being given , even though NIAC have said it is not safe to give to anybody under age of 40 ?

Why if there is a risk at all , is it ok to treat HCWs differently ? Is it some sort of research study that HCWs haven't been given a choice to opt out of ?
Because if you want to work and be safe you have to take the vaccine .

That was my point all along and if you had taken the trouble to read my posts in this thread maybe you wouldn't have replied in the tone you took in that post .
Hence the tone of my post to you .

I will not be replying again on this , I have said my piece and am done with this .

Lumen

Goldengirl wrote: »

NIAC have said it is not safe to give to anybody under age of 40

They have not said this.

is_that_so

niamh247 wrote: »

Which vaccines are being administered right now for the first dose? Is it still based on the age group criteria (AZ for above 50 etc)?

Pretty much all of them at different times and it looks like some vaccines have special days in the vaccination centres. AZ is second dose only at present I believe with the over 50s getting J&J as an option and yes it's still going by age.

Zipppy

2nd dose Pfizer due this afternoon...

It's Independence day

Zipppy

Zipppy wrote: »

2nd dose Pfizer due this afternoon...

It's Independence day

Well to be strict, that would be 7 days from now in your case
It takes that length to work

Zipppy

Marine Layer wrote: »

Well to be strict, that would be 7 days from now in your case
It takes that length to work

Ah ok, 7 day countdown to Independence day begins :D

mightyreds

Anyone know much about cohort 7 seems my GP is vaccinating anyone with a BMI over 30, I have a BMI of 30.6 but am very healthy but just about a stone over my ideal weight, I can run 20 to 30 km regularly, I was a bit surprised to hear that.

Call me Al

mightyreds wrote: »

Anyone know much about cohort 7 seems my GP is vaccinating anyone with a BMI over 30, I have a BMI of 30.6 but am very healthy but just about a stone over my ideal weight, I can run 20 to 30 km regularly, I was a bit surprised to hear that.

A BMI over 30 is a covid risk factor.

Healthy or otherwise, statistically you are at an increased risk of a poorer outcome with a high BMI and that is classified as over 30.

mightyreds

Call me Al wrote: »

A BMI over 30 is a covid risk factor.

Healthy or otherwise, statistically you are at an increased risk of a poorer outcome with a high BMI and that is classified as over 30.

Thats mad I thought it was 40, I just didn't think 30 was right considering I'd only be slightly overweight to look at and have a high fitness level

Lumen

Call me Al wrote: »

A BMI over 30 is a covid risk factor.

Healthy or otherwise, statistically you are at an increased risk of a poorer outcome with a high BMI and that is classified as over 30.

Some perspective.

A 30 year old with a 30 BMI has no higher probability of death than their age group, and only a 25% higher risk of hospitalisation.

This is in rank 14 out of 100, where 100 is most at risk.

mightyreds

mightyreds wrote: »

Anyone know much about cohort 7 seems my GP is vaccinating anyone with a BMI over 30, I have a BMI of 30.6 but am very healthy but just about a stone over my ideal weight, I can run 20 to 30 km regularly, I was a bit surprised to hear that.

It's meant to be BMI over 35.

JimmyVik

Zipppy wrote: »

2nd dose Pfizer due this afternoon...

It's Independence day

How long since you got the first dose?

mightyreds

Johnny0Toole wrote: »

It's meant to be BMI over 35.

Ah that makes sense I would have to put up 3 stone to fit into that category so a major difference

revelman

https://www.thejournal.ie/vaccines-covid-19-40s-targets-5453067-May2021/

So 40-44 to start middle of June and run into July. Registration should open this week.

mightyreds

mightyreds wrote: »

Anyone know much about cohort 7 seems my GP is vaccinating anyone with a BMI over 30, I have a BMI of 30.6 but am very healthy but just about a stone over my ideal weight, I can run 20 to 30 km regularly, I was a bit surprised to hear that.

My GP is telling people like that to lose weight
He is not vaccinating them

stephenjmcd

revelman wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/vaccines-covid-19-40s-targets-5453067-May2021/

So 40-44 to start middle of June and run into July. Registration should open this week.

Open this week, start roughly 10 days later most likely if it follows the pattern of other groups.

Then you've dose 2 on the go for the 50s from last month.

At a rough guess I'd say 35-39 registration begins probably week beginning 14th June

revelman

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Open this week, start roughly 10 days later most likely if it follows the pattern of other groups.

Then you've dose 2 on the go for the 50s from last month.

At a rough guess I'd say 35-39 registration begins probably week beginning 14th June

Who knows but my own opinion is that this is a bit optimistic. It is going to take ages to plough through the 40-49 year olds. Not only is the population of this cohort much bigger, they effectively have to give them Pfizer/Moderna. Unless a big supply of J&J arrives soon and a large potion of the 40s take this, I really can’t see registration opening for 35-39 year olds until towards the end of June.

titan18

revelman wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/vaccines-covid-19-40s-targets-5453067-May2021/

So 40-44 to start middle of June and run into July. Registration should open this week.

Slower than I thought tbh. Was expecting they'd start after the bank holiday weekend. At that speed, it's likely that they're not vaccinating people in 35-39 age bracket until end of June.

revelman

titan18 wrote: »

Slower than I thought tbh. Was expecting they'd start after the bank holiday weekend. At that speed, it's likely that they're not vaccinating people in 35-39 age bracket until end of June.

The new plan is to have 60% of adults fully vaccinated by end of July. Under this plan, I’d say people in their thirties will be getting their first dose in early July.

noplacehere

Goldengirl wrote: »

b) Why are younger HCWs being treated with less care than the general population and being told , not asked , and not being given a choice unlike others , that it is AZ they are being given , even though NIAC have said it is not safe to give to anybody under age of 40 ?

Why if there is a risk at all , is it ok to treat HCWs differently ? Is it some sort of research study that HCWs haven't been given a choice to opt out of ?
Because if you want to work and be safe you have to take the vaccine .

Goldengirl quite a few of my Very High risk Group were done with Astrazeneca too before it was pulled. We're in the same boat as the nurses. I'm delighted ye are having your voices heard on this, we don't have one

Lumen

MVC rollout feels dog-slow at the moment. Have been seeing appointments for 48 and 49 year olds posted for over a week.

Wonder whether it's the GPs having been given a load of doses to sort out the cohort 7 balls up? I know a couple of under 45s not in cohort 7 who've been vaccinated (or have had appointments) by their GP.

It's an inevitable shotgun approach given the post-hack chaos, such a shame that the HSE haven't spent the last year gathering a proper database of cohort 4 and 7s, if they had they could all have been scheduled in MVCs weeks ago.

km79

titan18 wrote: »

Slower than I thought tbh. Was expecting they'd start after the bank holiday weekend. At that speed, it's likely that they're not vaccinating people in 35-39 age bracket until end of June.

My wife and brother are at either end of the 45-49 cohort
They have heard nothing back
I’m not optimistic now I’ll even have one shot before the end of June. Going on a 3 day hotel break at start of July and would like to have some kind of immunity built up before I set foot in a hotel/pub/restaurant
June is a write off now anyways

km79

Lumen wrote: »

MVC rollout feels dog-slow at the moment. Have been seeing appointments for 48 and 49 year olds posted for over a week.

Wonder whether it's the GPs having been given a load of doses to sort out the cohort 7 balls up? I know a couple of under 45s not in cohort 7 who've been vaccinated (or have had appointments) by their GP.

It's an inevitable shotgun approach given the post-hack chaos, such a shame that the HSE haven't spent the last year gathering a proper database of cohort 4 and 7s, if they had they could all have been scheduled in MVCs weeks ago.

This is exactly what has happened imo
The GPs are then ending up with a surplus and people are getting lucky depending on who they are/their GP is . I seen that first hand last Friday myself at work

seamus

Anecdotally hearing of a lot of that too; people who happen to know a GP well through whatever means, are getting a call and being given a spare dose because the GP has a load leftover.

It's a bit of a kick in the teeth tbh after all the kerfuffle made about nepotism in the Coombe and elsewhere, to hear that GPs are engaging in widespread nepotism with doses because they made a balls of cohort 7.

I'm not sure if that *is* impacting rollout, but it would explain why there's been a pause and a bit of silence about when they're going to open the next age cohort.

Skygord

mightyreds wrote: »

Anyone know much about cohort 7 seems my GP is vaccinating anyone with a BMI over 30, I have a BMI of 30.6 but am very healthy but just about a stone over my ideal weight, I can run 20 to 30 km regularly, I was a bit surprised to hear that.

BMI of 40+ is cohort 4 (Very High Risk group)
BMI of 35+ is cohort 7 (High Risk group)

BMI under 35 doesn't qualify for either of the above cohorts.

titan18

km79 wrote: »

My wife and brother are at either end of the 45-49 cohort
They have heard nothing back
I’m not optimistic now I’ll even have one shot before the end of June. Going on a 3 day hotel break at start of July and would like to have some kind of immunity built up before I set foot in a hotel/pub/restaurant
June is a write off now anyways

It seems a lottery upon based on where you live really. I know of multiple people in Cork in that group who got their first doses last week.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Anecdotally hearing of a lot of that too; people who happen to know a GP well through whatever means, are getting a call and being given a spare dose because the GP has a load leftover.

It's a bit of a kick in the teeth tbh after all the kerfuffle made about nepotism in the Coombe and elsewhere, to hear that GPs are engaging in widespread nepotism with doses because they made a balls of cohort 7.

I'm not sure if that *is* impacting rollout, but it would explain why there's been a pause and a bit of silence about when they're going to open the next age cohort.

I'm aware of 2 of these,perfectly healthy who got vaccinated before me and I am cohort 7
It's Ireland

Mark1916

https://twitter.com/forexlive/status/1399313496500809730?s=21

Gile_na_gile

Lumen wrote: »

MVC rollout feels dog-slow at the moment. Have been seeing appointments for 48 and 49 year olds posted for over a week.

All that extra ramp-up energy seems to have hit a neverending wall of 40-something year olds that never seems to clear. I know it is the population bulge in our demographic, like that bit of dense rock sheet when mining. Can hope against hope for a quick turnaround from registration to vaccination, at least for 44 year olds who will soon be the new 48 year olds. Means no full protection until end of July on mRNA platform.

astrofool

Goldengirl wrote: »

S
The issue is that
a) the 2nd doses were stretched out to 16 weeks for all who did not have underlying conditions, now brought back to 12 weeks apparently due to the risk of inadequate protection otherwise..
Unfortunately this is not happening as many HCWs are still waiting to be called for their 2nd doses and they are a few weeks after the 12weeks .

b) Why are younger HCWs being treated with less care than the general population and being told , not asked , and not being given a choice unlike others , that it is AZ they are being given , even though NIAC have said it is not safe to give to anybody under age of 40 ?

Why if there is a risk at all , is it ok to treat HCWs differently ? Is it some sort of research study that HCWs haven't been given a choice to opt out of ?
Because if you want to work and be safe you have to take the vaccine .

That was my point all along and if you had taken the trouble to read my posts in this thread maybe you wouldn't have replied in the tone you took in that post .
Hence the tone of my post to you .

I will not be replying again on this , I have said my piece and am done with this .

Cutting down to the actual questions (again, the average age of a HCW is lower than the age of those at high risk of COVID, that doesn't mean that there isn't older HCW):

a) If second doses aren't being given, that is bad, those due second doses should be getting them followed up with on schedule as soon as possible, we shouldn't be giving out first doses if we're lagging on second doses. The HSE is literally in charge of the rollout so how is this happening and who in the HSE is to blame for not getting vaccines to it's own staff.

b) Younger HCW aren't being treated different, they are following the dosing schedule (at least if the second dose is being scheduled properly), the risk of hitting an issue from AZ is very low (and is now treatable), much lower than the risk of getting COVID in a hospital setting. There is very little data on an AZ/mRNA schedule to say that it is safer or less safe than an AZ/AZ schedule and this data won't be available for multiple months, you are at best swapping a known low risk issue for an unknown level unknown risk issue.

As for the tone, that is your issue and your choice not to reply, people are waiting patiently for vaccines and the HCW's are now complaining that their vaccine (that they already got) isn't as good as the vaccine other people are getting, you were in the privileged position of being able to be vaccinated first because it was essential to your job after taking multiple risks last year in order to keep many people alive and not die, that should be commended, but again, the risk of an average HCW dying from COVID was less than that of an older person or a person in a care home, if it was coming down to just risk of dying then HCW would not have been getting vaccinated first (and I fully agree that HCW were correctly in the first rollout groups including all admin and backend staff because so many hospitals were understaffed last year with HCW isolating) and that makes it a privilege even if you see it as a requirement to do your job. It is clearly not an absolute must as the HCW job was being done for 9 months when vaccines didn't exist (and this is being pedantic, remembering I completely agree with HCW being first, but that is an emotional response by me).

edit: I would also add that saying "It is a disgrace" in your first post already moves it into an emotional state, I checked my response and it doesn't look like there was any emotion used there in my replies so it could be that you're projecting the emotions into my post that didn't exist, if I did, I apologize about that, I try and make my posts about facts and data and avoid anecdotal evidence, that can be cold but I can stand over them as introducing emotion does not lead to good outcomes when we're talking about a health crisis.