Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Wolf359f

Vaccinated30 wrote: »

Also AFAIK India is using Sinovac which seems to be about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike

I'm not up to date on the Indian/Chinese or Russian vaccines, but the PHE (E for England) was date collected in the UK on the Indian strain, which is dominant in the UK. It has nothing to do with what vaccine India uses.

Deeper Blue

I see the debunked SA variant study is being brought up again. FFS :rolleyes:

Vaccinated30

Vaccinated30 wrote: »

Also AFAIK India is using Sinovac which seems to be about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike

They use Covishield (AZ) and Covaxin which is produced in India and is an inactivated type.

Sinovac is not useless, it's headline efficacy figures aren't the full picture, it is showing good results at preventing hospitalisation and deaths.

Happydays2020

strongback wrote: »

I was two weeks getting an appointment, I called the HSE and they said wait 3 weeks and if no appointment text arrives then contact the HSE helpline.

It depends on the test centre is my guess. A straw pole of my friends showed the Aviva was about two weeks ahead of Croke Park.

So south siders get priority and no one seems to think this is an issue.

Polar101

Polar101 wrote: »

It might slow down a bit, because around that time all the 45-49's will be getting 2nd jabs, so unless the supply increases more of the supply will go to 2nd jabs. Ideally there wouldn't be a big delay between registration and appointment, now some people are already waiting 2-3 (or more) weeks.

I was thinking the same, there will surely be a bit of a slow soon soon with regards to people receiving their first jabs. I am in the the 35-39 age group and I’m not expecting to get a vaccine this month to be honest.

is_that_so

Happydays2020 wrote: »

So south siders get priority and no one seems to think this is an issue.

There are two on the northside, including the super efficient Helix at 5K+ a day. The system says 3 weeks anyway so luck and Eircodes seem to dictate when you get the call.

Ninap

Does anyone know what an undocumented person (no PPS, but applying for residency) working as a carer should do to get a vaccine? Thanks

is_that_so

Ninap wrote: »

Does anyone know what an undocumented person (no PPS, but applying for residency) working as a carer should do to get a vaccine? Thanks

You should contact the HSE helpline.

eviltimeban

is_that_so wrote: »

There are two on the northside, including the super efficient Helix at 5K+ a day. The system says 3 weeks anyway so luck and Eircodes seem to dictate when you get the call.

I live on the northside but was sent to the Aviva, just shy of three weeks after registering. Not sure why I wasn't sent to the Helix or to Croker, but it was a very slick operation - from walking in the door to walking out again took half an hour.

is_that_so

eviltimeban wrote: »

I live on the northside but was sent to the Aviva, just shy of three weeks after registering. Not sure why I wasn't sent to the Helix or to Croker, but it was a very slick operation - from walking in the door to walking out again took half an hour.

Probably because they are allocating people to MVCs in the region, where there are open slots. Some people in Meath have been sent to Mullingar and The Helix.

conor_mc

Happydays2020 wrote: »

So south siders get priority and no one seems to think this is an issue.

No, because if you look at the appointments thread, those bastions of middle-class suburbia, Sligo and Mullingar, seem to be way ahead of the Aviva even, they’re vaccinating 42yo’s already.

The reality is they need to ship in batches so it’s a bit of a lottery depending on how many batches your locality requires for each age group and what capacity the local MVC has. And we’ve only seen an MVC stood down once I think, and that was in the Taoiseach’s native Cork for a weekend “break” for the staff, presumably to avoid the accusation that Cork is getting favourable treatment.

What we don’t want is the entire effort slowed down to maintain the image of fairness - the more people vaccinated, the better it is for all of us.

eviltimeban

is_that_so wrote: »

Probably because they are allocating people to MVCs in the region, where there are open slots. Some people in Meath have been sent to Mullingar and The Helix.

I had no problem with it anyway; it was Sunday morning so got there in about a 20 minute drive. Was actually quite a nice drive, hadn't been over that side in months.

xboxdad

is_that_so wrote: »

If you're vaccinated , you are not at risk of serious illness or worse so why should you care? Some will not or cannot get vaccinated and the 80% odd of us who will be, will ensure that it is at such a low level as not to be any great risk. What law are you thinking of here BTW?

Like I said he just doesn't believe in vaccines, I'm not talking about genuine reasons. It's my actual boss with no genuine reason.

Why should I care?

1. If say your vaccine is 90% and your boss' vaccine is 90%, the chance he can directly give you the virus is 10% of 10% which is 1%. The chance diminishes very quickly if everyone is doing their part.
If you're sitting next to your boss (which I do) and he's unvaccinated and catches covid, you've only got the efficiency of your vaccine protecting you. 10% chance to catch it vs the 1% if he did his part.
Also, you'll be exposed every single day for 8 hours.
Huge chance to catch it.
Not the same as running into random unvaccinated ppl by chance for 20 mins in the supermarket once a week.

2. Children won't be vaccinated. Some of them will turn out to be vulnerable - unforeseen in some cases.
Also, those who won't develop any symptoms may suffer long term consequences - we're at the very beginning of trying to understand long covid.

3. What law I have in mind?
Same as for airplanes. Show your proof of vaccination or stay home.

is_that_so

xboxdad wrote: »

Like I said he just doesn't believe in vaccines, I'm not talking about genuine reasons. It's my actual boss with no genuine reason.

Why should I care?

1. If say your vaccine is 90% and your boss' vaccine is 90%, the chance he can directly give you the virus is 10% of 10% which is 1%. The chance diminishes very quickly if everyone is doing their part.
If you're sitting next to your boss (which I do) and he's unvaccinated and catches covid, you've only got the efficiency of your vaccine protecting you. 10% chance to catch it vs the 1% if he did his part.
Also, you'll be exposed every single day for 8 hours.
Huge chance to catch it.
Not the same as running into random unvaccinated ppl by chance for 20 mins in the supermarket once a week.

2. Children won't be vaccinated. Some of them will turn out to be vulnerable - unforeseen in some cases.
Alsoo, those who won't develop any symptoms may suffer long term consequences - we're at the very beginning of trying to understand long covid.

3. What law I have in mind?
Same as for airplanes. Show your proof of vaccination or stay home.

We will be in a position where up to 20% will remain unvaccinated and herd immunity should ensure low levels of COVID. That's how we are going about this so you need to think about how you're going to deal with it.

As for the law, there is none that will force people to be vaccinated and it tramples on all sorts of rights, never mind guaranteeing a court date.

Happydays2020

conor_mc wrote: »

No, because if you look at the appointments thread, those bastions of middle-class suburbia, Sligo and Mullingar, seem to be way ahead of the Aviva even, they’re vaccinating 42yo’s already.

The reality is they need to ship in batches so it’s a bit of a lottery depending on how many batches your locality requires for each age group and what capacity the local MVC has. And we’ve only seen an MVC stood down once I think, and that was in the Taoiseach’s native Cork for a weekend “break” for the staff, presumably to avoid the accusation that Cork is getting favourable treatment.

What we don’t want is the entire effort slowed down to maintain the image of fairness - the more people vaccinated, the better it is for all of us.

I am one of those that is falling through the cracks (as my mother did also) so a little grumpy about it. Helpline was a little dismissive to be honest.

xboxdad

is_that_so wrote: »

We will be in a position where up to 20% will remain unvaccinated and herd immunity should ensure low levels of COVID. That's how we are going about this so you need to think about how you're going to deal with it.

As for the law, there is none that will force people to be vaccinated and it tramples on all sorts of rights, never mind guaranteeing a court date.

Re: 20% unvaccinated
It's a fair approach if it's a homogenous group consisting of random people from random age groups.
...but it's very dangerous and scary if most of them will be children.
See long covid and undiscovered underlying conditions.
We essentially push the entire issue of the pandemic with all its unknowns to children. I think we shouldn't make it any riskier than it needs to be.

Re: Forcing people
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you don't enter an office building (or any work place where home work is a clear option) without proof of vaccination.

PMBC

Seems we've hit the three million mark in doses.

If 900,000 have had the two doses then 1.65 m have had a single dose. Therefore, +2.5m have had either either one does or are fullly vaccinated. I haven't seen numbers for any of this, except the 3m. and specifically the figures for J&J single shot.
2.5m is great for this time in June. We should make 3m by end of June and 3.3m by end of 1st week July.

Panrich

PMBC wrote: »

Seems we've hit the three million mark in doses.

If 900,000 have had the two doses then 1.65 m have had a single dose. Therefore, +2.5m have had either either one does or are fullly vaccinated. I haven't seen numbers for any of this, except the 3m. and specifically the figures for J&J single shot.
2.5m is great for this time in June. We should make 3m by end of June and 3.3m by end of 1st week July.

I don’t see how that adds up but it’s early for me so maybe I just can’t follow your figures.

If we have administered 3m does and 900k have been fully vaccinated then if all required two doses we would have 1.8m doses needed for that leaving 1.2m for first dose only. That would be 2.1m with at least one dose in total.

Now I’m not sure how many J & J we have administered but I don’t know if it makes up to the figures that you have there. It would be good progress if we have more than 50% of people with at least one dose.

PMBC

Thanks for that correction. My head was filled with x 1.5 since yesterday (from studying I was at) so I multiplied 900k by 1.5 and was left with 1.65m.:o

Zipppy

Quick question regards when one is 'fully vaccinated'...
HSE states one week following dose2 Pfizer yet CDC is US states 2 weeks following dose2 Pfizer.
Who is correct, do we know?

eoinbn

Panrich wrote: »

I don’t see how that adds up but it’s early for me so maybe I just can’t follow your figures.

If we have administered 3m does and 900k have been fully vaccinated then if all required two doses we would have 1.8m doses needed for that leaving 1.2m for first dose only. That would be 2.1m with at least one dose in total.

Now I’m not sure how many J & J we have administered but I don’t know if it makes up to the figures that you have there. It would be good progress if we have more than 50% of people with at least one dose.

Your numbers are correct - if 900k fully vaccinated which might not be accurate.

Also we will not vaccinate 300k with their first dose in the first week of July. July will very likely be slower than June.
In the past week we got 320k mRNA vaccines. Roughly 120k went on second doses and 200k on first doses. That means come the last week in June we will need to be vaccinating 200k people a week with second doses so only 120k will be with first doses per week in July.

There are other factors to account for here - small increases in supply in July, Curevac finally showing up in Q3 as well as Pfizer potentially under delivering in June(seems to be true for the next 2 weeks) which would mean less second doses required in July.

Zipppy

Zipppy wrote: »

Quick question regards when one is 'fully vaccinated'...
HSE states one week following dose2 Pfizer yet CDC is US states 2 weeks following dose2 Pfizer.
Who is correct, do we know?

The efficacy end point for the phase 3 trial was 7 days after second dose, that gave the 95% efficacy result, so I'd consider the HSE to be correct on this one.

RavenBea17b

Wolf359f wrote: »

It's a weird one. AZ is still effective vs the Indian strain, but (I know the results are really questionable) less so vs the SA variant. There could be a train of thinking that is Covid mutates along the SA lineage, a booster based on the SA variant could be effective.

I'm curious how AZ can start using manufacturing facilities in the EU contract to produce a booster shot while still failing to deliver the EU contract for initial doses.
Assuming the UK are using AZ for boosters.

I read somewhere that all the vaccines are being tweaked to act as boosters - similar to the annual flu ones etc.
Cold be Novavax or Cureavac etc. We just don't know yet.

I also read boosters are being looked at by many countries as routine.

Moderna are are also looking at boosters for SA and Brazilian variants amongst others.

Zaney

eviltimeban wrote: »

I live on the northside but was sent to the Aviva, just shy of three weeks after registering. Not sure why I wasn't sent to the Helix or to Croker, but it was a very slick operation - from walking in the door to walking out again took half an hour.

I’d wonder if it’s somewhat the difference in demographics. Dún Laoghaire Rathdown has one of the oldest average age profiles. So more of that population has been vaccinated already? And the Aviva has more ‘spare’ capacity than is needed for it’s catchment now? No proof other than census average age statistics https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp3oy/cp3/aad/

Micky 32

RavenBea17b wrote: »

I read somewhere that all the vaccines are being tweaked to act as boosters - similar to the annual flu ones etc.
Cold be Novavax or Cureavac etc. We just don't know yet.

I also read boosters are being looked at by many countries as routine.

Moderna are are also looking at boosters for SA and Brazilian variants amongst others.

Good news if true, helps us keep prepared and on top of this.

is_that_so

RavenBea17b wrote: »

I read somewhere that all the vaccines are being tweaked to act as boosters - similar to the annual flu ones etc.
Cold be Novavax or Cureavac etc. We just don't know yet.

I also read boosters are being looked at by many countries as routine.

Moderna are are also looking at boosters for SA and Brazilian variants amongst others.

A lot of that talk is coming out of the pharma companies. The need for them is unknown at present but plans need to be developed anyway. It may apply to some at risk groups but hard to imagine that we'll do this all over again every year. DeGascun, a few weeks back, suggested they might be needed every couple of years, not annually.

RavenBea17b

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Ffs are we really bringing back up that SA study again that was discussed plenty here over the last few months along with its many flaws

Yes, the SA trial was somewhat flawed, age groups, placebo results etc.

Interesting piece about it on the bhf.org website.

RavenBea17b

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm almost certain the AZ study vs the Indian strain which reported ~60% efficacy after a second dose will be increased upwards as more data comes in with second doses of AZ over time.
The SA study would probably have went the same way, but they took it as 10% efficacy and moved on, yet it's still been dragged up as a final figure.

If only the real world studies followed the same routine as phase 3 trials, keep going until X number of positive cases are recorded in a vaccinated and placebo group etc... There's far too much knee jerk reactions regarding variants.

AZ is expected to be closer to 80-90% range for Kappa aka Indian variants - results due the 60% figure was at day 21 - AZ being a slow burner.

Agreed, the SA variant final figure would not have been 10% - due nature of AZ.

Looking to review papers for Moderna against Kappa.

ACitizenErased

Israel has reported 0 cases for the first time. 60% with first dose and 58% fully vaccinated.

RavenBea17b

is_that_so wrote: »

A lot of that talk is coming out of the pharma companies. The need for them is unknown at present but plans need to be developed anyway. It may apply to some at risk groups but hard to imagine that we'll do this all over again every year. DeGascun, a few weeks back, suggested they might be needed every couple of years, not annually.

Maybe true, talk from Pharma companies, but it was stated a while back that Astrazeneca are developing next gen vaccine, GSK too - but then again these next generation would be the case anyway.

I suspect that it will be similar to flu, more vulnerable given an annual - everyone else biennial for others.