Belarus forces Ryanair plane to divert *NO GENERAL POLITICS* *MOD WARNING POST 1*

Hurrache

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

Just saw Thomas Byrne TD on CNN with Becky Anderson. Seems the Irish Government is pushing fairly hard for an EU response.

Germany and others too, German officials proposed a ban on their airspace and flights yesterday.

Christy42

Polo2020 wrote: »

Isn't it too complicated to let people know this way?:) Why not to simply say "we did it"?

It is the Russian playbook.

Certainly any airspace ban can be gotten around but it adds costs and complications to all involved which is the main point.

signostic

Reports that Latvia has asked the Belorussian ambassador to pack his bags and be gone in 24 hours, all other staff have 48 hours, decisive move by Latvia, does Belorussia have a presence in Ireland?

Inquitus

It was an act of air piracy, there should certainly be a tough reaction to this, people should be safe flying and not subject to interception by Mig 29's and arrest in such circumstances, poor Mr Roman Protasevich could face alife in jail or worse off the back of this illegal act.

cailinoBAC

signostic wrote: »

Reports that Latvia has asked the Belorussian ambassador to pack his bags and be gone in 24 hours, all other staff have 48 hours, decisive move by Latvia, does Belorussia have a presence in Ireland?

No

Hoboo

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

Just saw Thomas Byrne TD on CNN with Becky Anderson. Seems the Irish Government is pushing fairly hard for an EU response.

Knowing Thomas personally, he and they will do SFA. Nothing but hot air and posturing. The Saudis chopped up a journalist in their Turkish embassy not so long ago and nothing happened. The Russians (allegedly) shot down a plane, nothing happened. They'll demand this and that, sanction a few people no one has ever heard or cares about, and that'll be it.

Eod100

Doesn't sound good. https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396868542654566402?s=19

AndrewJRenko

And more on the original incident; https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396446650718117890

lulublue22

Eod100 wrote: »

Doesn't sound good. https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396868542654566402?s=19

It’s desperate - I can only imagine what he felt when he realised that the plane had landed in Minsk. For all the discussion and talk about sanctions and response at the heart of it all is a tragic story of a young man and the horror he has / is going through.

grassylawn

Polo2020 wrote: »

What exactly? To say "we did it"?


Sure. How does it answer the question - why Belarus wouldn't simply say "we did it" if, according to some thoughts, all their excuses just about showing exactly that: "we did it"?
Why to complicate things?

Because they're not allowed to do it.
Admitting they did it forces a response.
Responding with a lie, however obvious, offers the choice to not respond.

edit:
It's Doublethink. The term was coined by Orwell in 1984. The regime in the book was based on Stalinist Russia.

Calahonda52

Lmkrnr wrote: »

I think this lad won't be involved in any colour revolutions for awhile. They call him a blogger but he's clearly an EU stooge.

In your option, thats all and that matters for nothing

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And more on the original incident; https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396446650718117890

While he may strongly suspect, he nor we "know" that fsb agents did this for a fact.

Muahahaha

xper wrote: »

T

Not on a B737-800. (There is a forward-looking enhanced vision option but Ryanair don't have that and would be irrelevant in this scenario).
A380's and some other more recent large models have external cameras primarily to aid with taxi-ing (and, incidentally, for passenger entertainment) but I am not aware of anything that gives a good view rearward or why you would want to (checking for a trailing fighter jet not being a reasonable scenario to cater for). At the end of the day, if a pilot is told by ATC that an intercept has been initiated, it would be incredibly foolhardy and irresponsible to call their bluff. A MIG-29 is well able to shoot down an airliner from beyond visual range.

cheers thanks. Just wondering then when a pilot reverses out of a terminal slot is his only visual reference for turning the plane the curved paint markings on the tarmac? Were the plane to hit something while reversing does the responsibility for that fall on the pilot or on the marshal giving direction?
And when a pilot gets an intercept notice from ATC what is the protocol? Would there be rules from each airline that they always comply or is it the captains decision alone what to do in that moment.

And what might be the outcome of all this. Just looking at the routes by the state owned airline Belavia about half their routes use EU airspace. Could the EU react by refusing them access to their airspace as a sanction?

pcardin

signostic wrote: »

Reports that Latvia has asked the Belorussian ambassador to pack his bags and be gone in 24 hours, all other staff have 48 hours, decisive move by Latvia, does Belorussia have a presence in Ireland?

Latvia is just answering with the same. It was Belorus first this morning who asked an ambassador of Latvia and all employees of Embassy of Latvia in Minsk to leave within 24 hrs. If I understand these political comedies correctly, asking one countries ambassador to leave is the same as declaring a war against that country?

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

cheers thanks. Just wondering then when a pilot reverses out of a terminal slot is his only visual reference for turning the plane the curved paint markings on the tarmac? Were the plane to hit something while reversing does the responsibility for that fall on the pilot or on the marshal giving direction?
And when a pilot gets an intercept notice from ATC what is the protocol? Would there be rules from each airline that they always comply or is it the captains decision alone what to do in that moment.

And what might be the outcome of all this. Just looking at the routes by the state owned airline Belavia about half their routes use EU airspace. Could the EU react by refusing them access to their airspace as a sanction?

I wouldnt like to be behind a moving plane with engines on

Nijmegen

Eod100 wrote: »

Doesn't sound good. https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396868542654566402?s=19

Almost predictable.

AndyBoBandy

Muahahaha wrote: »

cheers thanks. Just wondering then when a pilot reverses out of a terminal slot is his only visual reference for turning the plane the curved paint markings on the tarmac?

Planes don’t reverse out, they are ‘pushed back’ by tugs., and the pilot has no control of this procedure other than to release the parking brake to allow the procedure to begin.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

signostic wrote: »

Reports that Latvia has asked the Belorussian ambassador to pack his bags and be gone in 24 hours, all other staff have 48 hours, decisive move by Latvia, does Belorussia have a presence in Ireland?

No. It seems they're accredited, but through their embassy in London and an Honorary Consul.

JohnC.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

While he may strongly suspect, he nor we "know" that fsb agents did this for a fact.

KGB. FSB are Russian.

grassylawn

Polo2020 wrote: »

You mean it is not going to be a response, having what they say? Or they didn't know that it is going to be? Sure they knew.
If EU grounds Bolivian plane in Austria - it's not going to be a response. Or when NSA spies on Merkel's phone - it's not going to be any response either.
But if Belarus did something bad - undoubtfully it is going to be a response. Belarusian president can be a dictator but his is not a stupid dictator. He knew exactly what he is doing and what to expect.


Yeah, good book. Stalinist Russia is long time dead. And the book is as alive, as ever. Wondering why..

Bolivia were not in a position to do anything beyond look for an apology and nobody would have expected anything beyond that of them.
Spying is not comparable to forcibly grounding a plane to abduct someone.

Tenger

JohnC. wrote: »

KGB. FSB are Russian.

FSB in Russia are the successors of the old Soviet KGB.
KGB translates as “committee for state security”

Both Belarus and Republic of South Ossetia have their own “committee for state security”, both of which use the old title. So in this incident references to “KGB” probably mean the Belarusian agency.

faoiarvok

zom wrote: »

In 2013, several European countries blocked Evo Morales’s Bolivian state plane from using their airspace because of suspicions that Edward Snowden, who was on the plane and also faced death penalty. But it is not a crime when we do it...;)

It was despicable and shameless bullying on behalf of the US, but I don’t think it was a crime anyway.

Military aircraft are not covered by the treaties that guarantee overflight rights, and require diplomatic clearance that can be refused for whatever reason. The aircraft was not intercepted, they found their route cut off and had to change plans. They were later granted the diplomatic clearance to complete the journey, and received apologies from some of the countries.

I do think it was disgusting, but it was not the same as intercepting a civil airliner with a fighter jet after inventing a security threat, and forcing it to divert so a critic of a dictator could be arrested, in breach of international treaties to which Belarus is a signatory.

JohnC.

Tenger wrote: »

FSB in Russia are the successors of the old Soviet KGB.
KGB translates as “committee for state security”

Both Belarus and Republic of South Ossetia have their own “committee for state security”, both of which use the old title. So in this incident references to “KGB” probably mean the Belarusian agency.

Yes, that's what I said.

cailinoBAC

Video confessing to his 'crimes' and definitely marks on forehead. I don't know if there are any versions with subtitles yet.
https://mobile.twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1396898727676239875

grassylawn

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

and thus, kangaroo courts and lynching takes place

but its ok when its us doing it because we are the good guys

The journalist they abducted is the one facing something like kangaroo courts and lynching, obviously.

Muahahaha

Ursula von der Leyen saying sanctions against the state airline Belavia are on the table. Theyve only got about 30 routes and half of them are over EU airspace

paul71

grassylawn wrote: »

The journalist they abducted is the one facing something like kangaroo courts and lynching, obviously.

Unfortunately there is a very real chance he will never get to see any kinfd of court Kangaroo court. There is a very real chance he will be suicided.

Beechwoodspark

It def wasn’t the KGB - disbanded after the USSR came to an end

Probably Belorussian secret service (Kamitet Dziaržaŭnaj Biaspieki) or possibly the FSB (Russian secret service).

They say some Russian speaking stranger was taking photos of him in Athens airport ....

listermint

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How is it whataboutery? Do you know what that means?

We don't know for a fact that the KGB were in the plane. We don't. We weren't there and no one that was there is talking

Well we're told that 4 russian passport holders never got on the plane when it took off.

So you know erm.. do you know what whataboutery means.


You keep chugging that apology train to misdirect away from events knock yourself out...

cnocbui

The EU response:

Brussels: The European Union agreed Monday (Tuesday AEST) to impose sanctions against Belarus, including banning its airlines from using the airspace and airports of the 27-nation bloc, amid fury over the forced diversion of a passenger jet to arrest an opposition journalist.

...

In their unusually swift action in Brussels, the EU leaders also urged all EU-based carriers to avoid flying over Belarus, decided to impose sanctions on officials linked to Sunday’s flight diversion, and urged the International Civil Aviation Organisation to start an investigation into what they see as an unprecedented move and what some said amounted to state terrorism or piracy.

The leaders called on their council “to adopt the necessary measures to ban overflight of EU airspace by Belarusian airlines and prevent access to EU airports of flights operated by such airlines.” In addition to Pratasevich, they also urged authorities in Minsk to release his Russian girlfriend, Sofia Sapega, who was taken off the plane with him.

The text was endorsed quickly by the leaders who were determined to respond with a “strong reaction” to the incident because of the “serious endangering of aviation safety and passengers on board by Belarussian authorities,” according to an EU official with direct knowledge of the discussions who was not authorised to speak publicly about the private talks.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/airlines-avoid-airspace-over-belarus-after-state-sponsored-hijacking-of-flight-20210525-p57usg.html