Manager of the Season

~Rebel~

CSF wrote: »

I mean it is probably worth a mention that nearly 20% of the goals City conceded this season were conceded in the 2 games before Dias joined and Pep built the team around him. 26 goals conceded in the 36 games played after that point which I think is quite remarkable for normally such an attacking coach. Its a better defensive record than Klopp's Liverpool from last season (both over the 36 I mentioned or the 38) which I think is remarkable because Klopp's Liverpool last season had also set something of a precedent for defensive record from an attacking team.


Comparing other team's defensive records to Liverpool last season or City this season isn't always that instructive, because the teams in question are usually naturally defensive teams. The last 2 seasons we've seen great teams achieve the best of both worlds, which I think puts them ahead of the flavour of the week overachiever managers whose achievements generally end up being not repeatable



Wilder from last season is a good example, all those 1 goal wins started to become 1 goal defeats this season as they went from a season where everything went their way to a season where nothing went their way.

They won it the way teams on a budget normally have to win it. They did the same sort of thing Leicester did. But when leicester do it on their budget it's an awful lot more impressive than City with their spending power and squad. That Leicester season is the most comparable for a few things really... closest points total for a winner over the last 6 years, and that was also the last time a league winner dropped points in 10+ games.

You're talking up his defensive record this season as if it's some sort of change for him though (even though its among his worst) - he always has a brilliant defense, whether that's Spain, Germany, or England. He's not attacking, he's controlling. Conceded just 23 in 18/19, while still scoring 95. Conceded 27 in 17/18 while still scoring 106. This year they conceded 32 while scoring 83.

What has made Pep special as a coach is the total control his teams assert over the game - at their best his teams are always rock solid at the back, while still creating loads of chances. This year they've done both of those things worse than their previous wins - despite it being league season they had a natural advantage in with their squad depth/quality and a tight schedule.

Look, they won the league, which is great - and he may well get the nod if he wins the Champions League too, but as far as league campaigns go from a managerial standpoint, this firmly ranks 3rd of his 3, and was the least impressive league win in a fair while.

CSF

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

They won it the way teams on a budget normally have to win it. They did the same sort of thing Leicester did. But when leicester do it on their budget it's an awful lot more impressive than City with their spending power.

Look, they won the league, which is great - but as far as managerial achievement, of the 3 league's he's won, it's the least impressive by a distance.

You're talking up his defensive record this season as if it's some sort of change for him - he always has a brilliant defense, whether that's Spain, Germany, or England. He's not attacking, he's controlling. Conceded just 23 in 18/19, while still scoring 95. Conceded 27 in 17/18 whiles till scoring 106. This year they conceded 32 while scoring 83. What has made Pep special is the total control his teams assert over the game - at their best his teams are always rock solid at the back, while still creating loads of chances. This year they've done both of those things worse than their previous wins - despite it being league season they had a natural advantage in with their squad depth and a tight schedule.

He may well get the nod if he wins the Champions League, but as far as league campaigns go from a managerial standpoint, this firmly ranks 3rd of his 3.

I mean his team scored 2 less goals and conceded one less goal than Klopp’s Liverpool while winning another trophy and being in a Champions League final. Klopp’s Liverpool team last season were rightly discussed as being one of the best teams we’ve seen in the league, so I don’t get why you see this one as different?

~Rebel~

CSF wrote: »

I mean his team scored 2 less goals and conceded one less goal than Klopp’s Liverpool while winning another trophy and being in a Champions League final. Klopp’s Liverpool team last season were rightly discussed as being one of the best teams we’ve seen in the league, so I don’t get why you see this one as different?

Klopp's team got an extra 13 points in the process...

Liverpool racking up a lot more points, and more wins (and the earliest league win in history) is a pretty big difference.

If City were sitting there on 99 points, I'd be throwing him the manager of the year award, no problem. His 100 point team are, I think, the best Premier League team there has ever been. Which makes his 86 point team a bit of a 'meh'.

suffering golfer

Ole

The fact there is no vote option for Moyes is a travesty. I mean, was leading the BBC vote for manager of the season at one stage...

event

Smith

Icaras wrote: »

I don't remember any of their main player missing for a long period of time through injury. Bamford and Dallas played in every game, Harrison missed 2, Ayling played 90mins of every game except 1, Alioski missed or played less than 10mins in only 6 games etc.
I could be wrong, I didn't know the team last year but did know Bamford, Dallas and the keeper were highly rated (for a just promoted side) at the start of the season.

Liverpool weren't the only team to have injuries, we had loads

Rodrigo missed 12 games from injuries
Koch missed 16 games from injuries
llorente missed 17 games from injuries
Cooper missed 12 games from injuries
Phillips missed 9 games from injuries

CSF

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Klopp's team got an extra 13 points in the process...

Liverpool racking up a lot more points, and more wins (and the earliest league win in history) is a pretty big difference.

If City were sitting there on 99 points, I'd be throwing him the manager of the year award, no problem. His 100 point team are, I think, the best Premier League team there has ever been. Which makes his 86 point team a bit of a 'meh'.

Klopp's team didn't win another trophy and reach a CL final though, so surely these things balance it off?

Pussyhands

Moyes not in the poll but Bruce and Dean Smith are?

What has Dean Smith done to warrant such praise? 90m spent last summer. 143m spent the summer previous...

lertsnim

David Moyes.

CSF

Ole

Pussyhands wrote: »

Moyes not in the poll but Bruce and Dean Smith are?

What has Dean Smith done to warrant such praise? 90m spent last summer. 143m spent the summer previous...

Smith has done a great job but Moyes’ is clearly a better one. He was omitted by the OP by accident.

The figures you quoted don’t tell the full story with Smith. He inherited a squad in similar situation to what Palace have now, a squad full of players out of contract and not up to scratch and in our case a number of loan players. He was supposed to do the rebuild in the Championship but ended up going on an 11 game winning run to end the season to end with promotion.

So he has essentially had to sign a whole new team apart from Grealish and McGinn. Even Mings and El Ghazi had to be signed on a permanent basis for 28 million of the money you mentioned as they were only on loan deals. Nobody else still plays any decent number of minutes that were there in the Championship.

213 million probably isn’t that much money to sign basically an entire squad. If we were able to spend that on 3/4 players we would have some serious quality at our disposal. Instead it was spent on 19 players to have a squad, at an average of about 10 million per player which is certainly not big by Premier League standards.

~Rebel~

CSF wrote: »

Klopp's team didn't win another trophy and reach a CL final though, so surely these things balance it off?

Cool, so you agree that his league campaign was just 'fine', and not actually comparable at all with either the Liverpool league campaign, or his own previous campaigns? Because that's what our conversation has been going back and forth on primarily.

As I said, if he wins the CL, he'll deserve the nod. I don't think big clubs/managers ever really get all that much credit for a lost final - more unexpected clubs do (like Poch with Spurs), but in practice, not really the case with big clubs.

For the League Cup, it's grand... it's the trophy they win literally every year because their 2nd team/fringe players are a significantly better than everyone elses. It's somewhat telling that he doesn't have anything like the same success in the FA Cup for instance. (Just the one for him there, which came in the year they got the quite lovely run of; Rotherham, Burnley, Newport County, Swansea, Brighton, and then Watford in the final)

For me, this league campaign and League cup are great to win, but again in terms of outstanding managerial achievement - at this stage both are firmly par for the club/resources involved. If he wins the Champions League, that's a different story - but he has to go do it first. If he does, it's his. If not, it's Moyesy for me.

~Rebel~

Pussyhands wrote: »

Moyes not in the poll but Bruce and Dean Smith are?

What has Dean Smith done to warrant such praise? 90m spent last summer. 143m spent the summer previous...

From barely (and quite luckily) dodging relegation, they did look brilliant for a good portion of the season in fairness - Graelish getting injured really seemed to scupper their momentum though.

Icaras

Rogers

suffering golfer wrote: »

The fact there is no vote option for Moyes is a travesty. I mean, was leading the BBC vote for manager of the season at one stage...

Some clown got over excited and didn't check the pole before publishing it and now it feels too late to ask the mods to fix it.
I'll try and do better next year....

~Rebel~

Icaras wrote: »

Some clown got over excited and didn't check the pole before publishing it and now it feels too late to ask the mods to fix it.
I'll try and do better next year....

Could maybe amend the first post with a note at the top saying "Other" specifically means Moyes? Seems like you've covered the other likely PL options in the poll anyway.

Icaras

Rogers

event wrote: »

Liverpool weren't the only team to have injuries, we had loads

Rodrigo missed 12 games from injuries
Koch missed 16 games from injuries
llorente missed 17 games from injuries
Cooper missed 12 games from injuries
Phillips missed 9 games from injuries

That's fair enough. I've no problem being corrected on this.

CSF

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Cool, so you agree that his league campaign was just 'fine', and not actually comparable at all with either the Liverpool league campaign, or his own previous campaigns? Because that's what our conversation has been going back and forth on primarily.

As I said, if he wins the CL, he'll deserve the nod. I don't think big clubs/managers ever really get all that much credit for a lost final - more unexpected clubs do (like Poch with Spurs), but in practice, not really the case with big clubs.

For the League Cup, it's grand... it's the trophy they win literally every year because their 2nd team/fringe players are a significantly better than everyone elses. It's somewhat telling that he doesn't have anything like the same success in the FA Cup for instance. (Just the one for him there, which came in the year they got the quite lovely run of; Rotherham, Burnley, Newport County, Swansea, Brighton, and then Watford in the final)

For me, this league campaign and League cup are great to win, but again in terms of outstanding managerial achievement - at this stage both are firmly par for the club/resources involved. If he wins the Champions League, that's a different story - but he has to go do it first. If he does, it's his. If not, it's Moyesy for me.

Eh feels like there has been a little bit of goalpost moving as the conversation has gone on. The conversation originated from me saying that Pep was able to reinvent his team to one that could win the Champions League while also regaining the Premier League.


The line you picked me up on that you highlighted was me saying 'what Klopp and Pep have done in the last 2 seasons is hard to repeat for different reasons' which I've gone on over the course of the conversation to clarify was that he managed to win the 2 domestic trophies while also setting himself up for being favourites in a CL final next week (I mean I also stated in that quote that it was for different reasons).


The suggestion was never that he was trying to replicate a season where he was able to batter the Premier League teams with 100+ goals and point seasons, before inevitably bowing out in the Champions League. He reinvented them stylistically into a much more defensive minded (yes they always had control of games but were rarely actually strong defensively outside of that, which meant when they faced opponents who could go toe to toe with them, they often struggled) team after that Leicester fiasco at the start of the season.

~Rebel~

CSF wrote: »

Eh feels like there has been a little bit of goalpost moving as the conversation has gone on. The conversation originated from me saying that Pep was able to reinvent his team to one that could win the Champions League while also regaining the Premier League.


The line you picked me up on that you highlighted was me saying 'what Klopp and Pep have done in the last 2 seasons is hard to repeat for different reasons' which I've gone on over the course of the conversation to clarify was that he managed to win the 2 domestic trophies while also setting himself up for being favourites in a CL final next week (I mean I also stated in that quote that it was for different reasons).


The suggestion was never that he was trying to replicate a season where he was able to batter the Premier League teams with 100+ goals and point seasons, before inevitably bowing out in the Champions League. He reinvented them stylistically into a much more defensive minded (yes they always had control of games but were rarely actually strong defensively outside of that, which meant when they faced opponents who could go toe to toe with them, they often struggled) team after that Leicester fiasco at the start of the season.

I just totally disagree with several parts here - first that they're more defensively resolute this year than the previous iterations of the team. You say they were rarely strong defensively, which imo just isn't true at all. They concede more this year, and drop points more often this year. They win less matches. And just watching them - they've had great runs at times where they looked like the City of old, but also poor runs where they've looked pretty flakey. I don't really think any aspect of their game is better than their past teams.

As for them now being a style that is better for winning the CL - I don't believe that either. The CL is just comprised of a series of matches against other teams, and if you win those matches you progress - the past versions were just as capable of winning their matches. Indeed, it was Pep switching styles in those matches that often cost him. Look at the games that knocked them out - Lyon last year, when he changed to a style just like the current setup, more defensive minded and without the impetus and adventure in attack that they had played with previously. And they lost. The previous year, Spurs beat them. Do they really need a big switch in style to beat a team they routinely beat in the league? The previous year was another Premier League team in Liverpool. And the year before that was Monaco. Of those 4 years, Liverpool was probably the only real challenge that just playing their normal game wouldn't have overcome if they simply played well. They simply lost games they should have won. Fair play to them for winning their games this year, but I don't believe that their previous campaigns were undone by a broad style, but rather by their poor performances on the day.

I've never said he was trying to replicate anything - just that his previous league wins were much more impressive by just about every metric. Whatever he was trying to do this year, it has been worse than his previous wins, despite their significant advantage of squad depth in a condensed season.

Ultimately the conversation is about if he deserves manager of the year. For what he's done so far, for me, no. If he wins the Champions League, yes.

adox

Ole

Pep for me. City were a shambles earlier on in the season and looked nowhere near a title challenge, yet while all around were floundering for form he got them at it again and won by a distance.

Moyes a close second with an unbelievable season the the Hammers.

CSF

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I just totally disagree with several parts here - first that they're more defensively resolute this year than the previous iterations of the team. You say they were rarely strong defensively, which imo just isn't true at all. They concede more this year, and drop points more often this year. They win less matches. And just watching them - they've had great runs at times where they looked like the City of old, but also poor runs where they've looked pretty flakey. I don't really think any aspect of their game is better than their past teams.

As for them now being a style that is better for winning the CL - I don't believe that either. The CL is just comprised of a series of matches against other teams, and if you win those matches you progress - the past versions were just as capable of winning those matches as they were. Indeed, it was Pep switching styles in those matches that often cost him. Look at the games that knocked them out - Lyon last year, when he changed to a style just like the current setup, more defensive minded and without the impetus and adventure in attack that they had played with previous. And they lost. The previous year, Spurs beat them. Do they really need a big switch in style to beat a team they routinely beat in the league? The previous year was another Premier League team in Liverpool. And the year before that was Monaco. Of those 4 years, Liverpool was probably the only real challenge that just playing their normal game wouldn't have overcome if they simply played well. They simply lost games they should have won. Fair play to them for winning their games this year, but I don't believe that their previous campaigns were undone by a broad style, but rather by their poor performances on the day.

I've never said he was trying to replicate anything - just that his previous league wins were much more impressive by just about every metric. Whatever he was trying to do this year, it has been worse than his previous wins, despite their significant advantage of squad depth in a condensed season.

Ultimately the conversation is about if he deserves manager of the year. For what he's done so far, for me, no. If he wins the Champions League, yes.

Well it sounds like we disagree on the most key aspects of this, and probably aren’t going to agree any time soon. To my mind, a title win, a league cup win and a CL final is comfortably enough for manager of the season, even if it goes wrong next week. I can’t remember the last time a Premier League manager won the league and reached a CL final in the same year. It’s likely one of the United teams that lost to Barca twice.

adaminho

Smith

Pep won LMA manager of the season.

Icaras

Rogers

adaminho wrote: »

Pep won LMA manager of the season.

Definitive proof (if any was needed) confirming the good people of boards.ie know more than paid professionals within the game for a number of years!

Smith

I suppose the main thing is what's the criteria?.

If its about being the best/winning then pretty much every year it should go to the Champions and thus Pep.

But if there was a scoring system in place: winning, budget, previous form, squad quality etc then you need to take all things into account.

With the second part in mind I'd have to go for either Bielsa or Moyes.

I'd pick Bielsa as to finish near the European places in their first season seems like the biggest achievement for me.

rob316

If its about trophies then ya Pep, but Man City have the resources to win the league every year. Who overachieved? Moyes, Smith and Bielsa.

adaminho

Smith

Saw a mad stat the other day that of the 16 players named in Bielsa's first matchday squad 10 played on Sunday and Klich was given the weekend off!

SlickRic

the criteria isn't just winning when it comes to manager of the season.

Pep is a great manager, obviously, but his performance, particularly in the PL, was about par, considering the squad at his disposal. the rotation he was able to maintain, and keep players fresh, in a condensed season, and never really lose quality, was such an advantage. you can shine it up all you want, but when the deck is stacked in your favour, that does impact on how your performance is perceived. he'll be up against that until the day he doesn't join the best team, and in this case, also the deepest squad, with the most finances.

You can't even count the League Cup as an achievement, because his 2nd team is ludicrous compared to everyone else due to the squad depth. it's properly ridiculous, and in fairness, that competition is in danger now unless other squads get up to City's level.

Moyes is the standout for me, pipping Pep.

Not one person who follows the Premier League thought they'd come 6th, and with a few games to go, be in with a chance of Champions League. it was a bigger managerial achievement, considering what he had at his disposal, than what Pep did.

Bounty Hunter

SlickRic wrote: »

the criteria isn't just winning when it comes to manager of the season.

Pep is a great manager, obviously, but his performance, particularly in the PL, was about par, considering the squad at his disposal. the rotation he was able to maintain, and keep players fresh, in a condensed season, and never really lose quality, was such an advantage. you can shine it up all you want, but when the deck is stacked in your favour, that does impact on how your performance is perceived. he'll be up against that until the day he doesn't join the best team, and in this case, also the deepest squad, with the most finances.

You can't even count the League Cup as an achievement, because his 2nd team is ludicrous compared to everyone else due to the squad depth. it's properly ridiculous, and in fairness, that competition is in danger now unless other squads get up to City's level.

Moyes is the standout for me, pipping Pep.

Not one person who follows the Premier League thought they'd come 6th, and with a few games to go, be in with a chance of Champions League. it was a bigger managerial achievement, considering what he had at his disposal, than what Pep did.

I don't disagree that Moyes has done a great job but I have seen this sentiment re: Pep & City and their resources and it does make me wonder, is it then impossible for Pep to do well enough to be considered manager of the season. Most likely (the are rightfully favorites and it's just one game) to complete a treble that includes the league and CL but that is only about par considering what he has at his disposal ?

~Rebel~

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I don't disagree that Moyes has done a great job but I have seen this sentiment re: Pep & City and their resources and it does make me wonder, is it then impossible for Pep to do well enough to be considered manager of the season. Most likely (the are rightfully favorites and it's just one game) to complete a treble that includes the league and CL but that is only about par considering what he has at his disposal ?

Yeah, I think he definitely can - what he did in 17/18 was 100% worthy of League manager of the year. Same would've been the case in 18/19 too, except for Klopp running them so close, but it was still a conversation - both were absolutely exceptional.

It's hard to get away from the very nature of this weird season giving them a hefty advantage right from the word go. Had they killed it, and done what they've done before, it'd be his no question. But they've kinda floated through to an extent, rotating world class players week in week out without too much bother, knockin' out a points total some 15 points below his previous league wins.

So, if you turn the question around - if you give it to Pep for this season, can you then ever not give it to the league winner?

Now, if he wins the Champions League, it's all moot, as he'll fully deserve it then. (if we're having a conversation about overall best manager, rather than best League manager - best League manager this year has to be Moyesey, with Bielsa just behind).

Guy:Incognito

Other

Vote for Bruce you cowards.

super_furry

It's clearly David Moyes. Among the favourites for relegation, a disastrous summer transfer window that left senior club players bemoaning the players they lost and then he gets them European football.

noodler

Definitely Pep's least impressive league win. No one was as well placed for their squad riches to count in such a congested season.

If this conversation extends to other comps then it will be Pep though if he wins the CL finally.

From a league pov, Moyes definitely made the most progress.

Edit: I'd be saying Rodgers if they just hadn't bottled it. CL and an FA Cup would have been incredible.

TheCitizen

Ole

Icaras wrote: »

Good shout. World wide Stevie G is high on the list. Undefeated PL season, won a cup i think and completly dominated Celtic (4 wins, 1 draw).

Won a Cup you think? Nah he didn't win a Cup.

Rangers went unbeaten but they had no opposition as everything that could go wrong for Celtic did go wrong and they had an horrendous season. Rangers did well in the Europa League to be fair up until a calamitous exit v Slavia Prague.

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

Won a Cup you think? Nah he didn't win a Cup.

Rangers went unbeaten but they had no opposition as everything that could go wrong for Celtic did go wrong and they had an horrendous season. Rangers did well in the Europa League to be fair up until a calamitous exit v Slavia Prague.

Not really that calamitous... Slavia Prague are just demonstrably a better team. It would've been overachievement to get past them. 3-1 over 2 legs is hardly a total embarrassment or anything.

Celtic were rubbish, but even with that, it's still been an awfully impressive season from Rangers. Conceding only 13 goals in the whole season is mad stuff like. It's not really their fault that Celtic misused their substantial extra resources. And it's also 5 years since Celtic have put up numbers like Rangers managed this year. Whatever way you look at it, Ranger's still monstered a league in which they started the season as 2nd favourites.

Talisman

Klopp

It has to be Ole after he guided the club to an unprecedented treble ...

https://twitter.com/GrizzKhan/status/1397676047869612038

TheCitizen

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Not really that calamitous... Slavia Prague are just demonstrably a better team. It would've been overachievement to get past them. 3-1 over 2 legs is hardly a total embarrassment or anything.

Did you see the game, it descended into chaos with Rangers players totally losing composure a Slavia player then accused of racism but they had totally lost it before that.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Celtic were rubbish, but even with that, it's still been an awfully impressive season from Rangers. Conceding only 10 goals in the whole season is mad stuff like. It's not really their fault that Celtic misused their substantial extra resources. Ranger's still monstered a league in which they started the season as 2nd favourites.

No it wasn't their fault that Celtic disintegrated, and they took full advantage but they weren't put under any pressure.

TheCitizen

Ole

Icaras wrote: »

Balls, total mistake by me. Can I edit the pole?

I don't think so but you could run a flag up it:pac:

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

Did you see the game, it descended into chaos with Rangers players totally losing composure a Slavia player then accused of racism but they had totally lost it before that.

Yeah I watched it. They got frustrated and lost the heads a bit in the process of being beaten by a better team. I'm not sure what you think is calamitous about it though... it was just 'team is beaten by better team'...

No it wasn't their fault that Celtic disintegrated, and they took full advantage but they weren't put under any pressure.

I just don't get that argument at all... like, it's fair enough if they just barely win it or something (like Man City this season for instance, kinda cruising it because everyone else collapsed), but that's not a valid detraction from a team absolutely monstering the league. You could say exactly the same thing about the Premier League in 19/20 when Liverpool monstered it unopposed, or in 17/18 when Man City monstered it unopposed. The fact no-one was able to live with them either season doesn't take away from some real proper destruction of the league. Both are hailed as 2 of the best league performances in the PL era. Rangers did similar, while remaining unbeaten in the process.

I'm no Rangers fan, but credit where it's due and all that...

TheCitizen

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yeah I watched it. They got frustrated and lost the heads a bit in the process of being beaten by a better team. I'm not sure what you think is calamitous about it though... it was just 'team is beaten by better team'...

They lost the head more than a bit.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I just don't get that argument at all... like, it's fair enough if they just barely win it or something, but that's not a valid detraction from a team absolutely monstering the league. You could say exactly the same thing about the Premier League in 19/20 when Liverpool monstered it unopposed, or in 17/18 when Man City monstered it unopposed. The fact no-one was able to live with them either season doesn't take away from some real proper destruction of the league. Both are hailed as 2 of the best league performances in the PL era. Rangers did similar, while remaining unbeaten in the process.

They did their work, it's not a detraction it's just reality that they enjoyed the league win unopposed and under no pressure.

TheCitizen

Ole

adaminho wrote: »

Pep won LMA manager of the season.

Deservedly so.

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

They did their work, it's not a detraction it's just reality that they enjoyed the league win unopposed and under no pressure.

Interesting. Fair enough. Out of curiosity would you class Celtic's 16/17 unbeaten season as equally 'meh'?

For me, Celtic that season, and Rangers this season, are the standout league campaigns by a distance over the last decade in Scotland. Both head and shoulders ahead of every other league campaign that's taken place there.
(you also have to go back 11 years to find a season where the winner didn't effectively run unopposed, which makes it seem like by your standards it's not really possible to have an impressive season there...).

TheCitizen

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Interesting. Fair enough. Out of curiosity would you class Celtic's 16/17 unbeaten season as equally 'meh'?

For me, Celtic that season, and Rangers this season, are the standout league campaigns by a distance over the last decade in Scotland. Both head and shoulders ahead of every other league campaign that's taken place there.
(you also have to go back 11 years to find a season where the winner didn't effectively run unopposed, which makes it seem like by your standards it's not really possible to have an impressive season there...).

meh? that's your word. Celtic won the treble that year, actually completed a quadruple treble in Autumn with the delayed 2020 Scottish Cup. Rangers won the league unbeaten but unopposed and then failed in both Cups.

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

meh? that's your word. Celtic won the treble that year, actually completed a quadruple treble in Autumn with the delayed 2020 Scottish Cup. Rangers won the league unbeaten but unopposed and then failed in both Cups.

Just talking about league campaigns. I consider both those unbeaten, 100-point breaking league campaigns to be exceptional, and the two standouts of the past decade in the division. Distinct, and a class apart from the other 8 seasons by their unique shared achievements. I'm just asking if you agree.

The 'unopposed' addition is a bit mad to me though under the circumstances, given that every season for a decade has been unopposed by that rationale... what makes being unbeaten so incredible and special as an achievement is the need to be perfect week in week out - it means even at your absolute worst, on your poorest day, you couldn't be beaten.

TheCitizen

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Just talking about league campaigns. I consider both those unbeaten, 100-point breaking league campaigns to be exceptional, and the two standouts of the past decade. I'm just asking if you agree.

Well you're not just talking about league campaigns when it comes to Pep, you keep saying he has to win the Champions League to be regarded as manager of the season.

I would consider Celtic winning the treble that unbeaten league season makes it a better achievement than Rangers unbeaten season but only the one trophy.

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

Well you're not just talking about league campaigns when it comes to Pep, you keep saying he has to win the Champions League to be regarded as manager of the season.

I would consider Celtic winning the treble that unbeaten league season makes it a better achievement than Rangers unbeaten season but only the one trophy.

Maybe check back through my posts in that case - I actually gave both opinions. That if it's for total achievement as a manager then if Pep wins the CL he gets it, but that if it's for the best league campaign it's Moyes first and then Bielsa for me.

Best season, and best league campaign are two different things. I've given my opinion on both for this season, and bringing the same thing up in this conversation.

Interesting that you actually refuse to answer the question though. Sure look, we are where we are. That's probably enough of this one. I think I've bored enough people to tears with some of my prolonged debates this week!

chicorytip

Tuchel

joeguevara wrote: »

Surely Rogers is not really a candidate? Hate saying it but is there anyone else who constantly falls at the final hurdle?

Yes. Mauricio Pochettino.

micknail

I voted "Other" as the correct answer is Sean Dyche.

Now it seems that means Moyes, poll is useless.

jmayo

Smith

micknail wrote: »

I voted "Other" as the correct answer is Sean Dyche.

Now it seems that means Moyes, poll is useless.

What Dyche does year in year out is phenomenal.

And the thing may be Burnley get notions and decide to get rid.

~Rebel~

See, it's shit like this that makes it hard to give it to Pep!

Not just losing, but actively managing your way into defeat. It's like the squad is so strong, that he feels the need to give them an extra challenge or something.

El Gato De Negocios

After that, Moyes, no question. Will Pep now walk away? With most of the traditional bigger European teams hitting potholes all over the place there was never a better chance for him and he still managed to fcuk it up.

Liverpool, assuming they keep the key players fit, will win the league at a canter next season.

~Rebel~

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

After that, Moyes, no question. Will Pep now walk away? With most of the traditional bigger European teams hitting potholes all over the place there was never a better chance for him and he still managed to fcuk it up.

Liverpool, assuming they keep the key players fit, will win the league at a canter next season.

Chelsea will be massive next season too I think.

El Gato De Negocios

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Chelsea will be massive next season too I think.

Said it previously, top three will be your boys, Chelsea and City, position tbc. Makes for a very very intriguing league. Over the last few seasons its only been LFC and City that have had both the squad and the manager capable of mounting a serious title challenge, Chelsea will spend again this summer as will City. Ye will spend but not at the same level, but Klopp is ahead of the other two in terms of what he can do with what's at his disposal.

I look forward to celebrating United getting a draw and occasional surprise win on our path to 4th place glory.

:rolleyes:

TheCitizen

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Chelsea will be massive next season too I think.

Pep still manager of the season in England though, that European game doesn’t count after all.