Manager of the Season

d22ontour

Moyes for overachieving with West Ham for me, City should be winning the league most years with those owners.

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

Pep still manager of the season in England though, that European game doesn’t count after all.

For the league, I'd be giving it to Moyes or Bielsa I reckon, Pep probably in 3rd.

machiavellianme

Bielsa

I was torn between Moyes, Bielsa and B-rod. I guess the silverware swings it for Brendan but it was close, because all 3 teams are about the same level with very little financial bluster. All 3 were fantastic at getting the best from their sides.

machiavellianme

Bielsa

TheCitizen wrote: »

Pep still manager of the season in England though, that European game doesn’t count after all.

How? A blind donkey could get first in the league with those players. They canter to victory most years. It was especially easy this year when all teams bar Chelsea spent sod all due to financial concerns, whereas Pep gets a bad result and trots out to spend millions on Dias. Hardly a managerial challenge.

Barr

Rogers

Close the thread ffs

Before Touchel took over

Chelsea were 10th in the league


He got them into the FA cup final

Finished 4th

CL winner


ALL IN 4 MONTHS

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Tuchel

Biesla for me.

Pep shown up for what he is, another Jose albeit with more money.

Guy:Incognito

Other

TheCitizen wrote: »

. Rangers won the league unbeaten but unopposed and then failed in both Cups.

Did city win the league unopposed this season? Cos celtic finished with more points than utd. Why couldn't city win it unbeaten? Surely pep should have done better seeing as he was unopposed?

jmayo

Smith

~Rebel~ wrote: »

See, it's shit like this that makes it hard to give it to Pep!

Not just losing, but actively managing your way into defeat. It's like the squad is so strong, that he feels the need to give them an extra challenge or something.

Sometimes it looks like he believes all the hype about himself.

He screwed up last year in the game with Lyon.
And he did again this year.

I don't why people seem to always forget he took over a Bayern team that had just won the CL, had been in 3 out of 4 finals and he couldn't get them past the semis.
Fair enough he lost likes of Kroos and Schweinsteiger, but he got Alonso qnd Lewandowski.

Everyone raves about their football this year, but really what should we expect from a squad that cost over a billion to assemble.

Bounty Hunter

I was giving it to Pep IF they won the CL (hard to deny a treble winning manager but that did not happen).

Now it is between Moyes, and Tuchel for me, with Rodgers / Bielsa just behind.


Tuchel may not qualify due to only being in the job for what 4 months (16 league games) but considering where they were when he took over (9th iirc) and what his remit supposedly was (get them Champions League football), to get them 3rd and to win the Champions league is amazing.

Add a CF who actually scores goals to that team and they will be a force in the league next year.

Ole's not even in the conversation here but I honestly think Utd might find it hard next season. Lots of talk of progress under him this year but with Liverpool getting players back fit and adding one or two like Konate and Chelsea developing further with more time under Tuchel, players used to the league and players like Havertz/Mount improving even further as they age up continued progress for Utd will be very difficult.

Similarily Rodgers/Leicster may rue missing their chance at CL football again as they will need to once again recruit incredibly well if they are to continue to challenge these boys especially with Vardy potentially being on the way out age wise.

Moyes massively underachieved last year imo and this year has been the reverse. Maybe next year it will even out with them challenging the likes of Everton, Spurs, Arsenal and Villa.

TheCitizen

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

For the league, I'd be giving it to Moyes or Bielsa I reckon, Pep probably in 3rd.

Except his team finished first. You can pick who you like Guardiola has won the official League manager of the year award in England.

TheCitizen

Ole

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Did city win the league unopposed this season? Cos celtic finished with more points than utd. Why couldn't city win it unbeaten? Surely pep should have done better seeing as he was unopposed?

They didn’t win it unopposed. They were behind earlier in the season and then found consistency. Tutchel has done a great job on his 4 months, but because it’s been just 4 months Pep is still manager of the season overall.

Brendan Flowers

Klopp with 19 votes. Ole with 14. Only 8 votes for Rogers. I'm assuming people are just voting for the manager of "their" team rather than voting for the best manager. Have people forgotten the injuries Leicester had this season? Or maybe because their fanbase weren't vocal enough about the injury crisis, people don't realise how bad it was for them. Unlike Klopp, Rogers didn't have the luxury of starting most games with 8 or 9 players who had started in and won either or the previous 2 Champions League finals. And Rogers still managed to finish in the same league position as he did the previous season, 4 points better off. He even added a major trophy.

LuckyLloyd

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Klopp with 19 votes. Ole with 14. Only 8 votes for Rogers. I'm assuming people are just voting for the manager of "their" team rather than voting for the best manager. Have people forgotten the injuries Leicester had this season? Or maybe because their fanbase weren't vocal enough about the injury crisis, people don't realise how bad it was for them. Unlike Klopp, Rogers didn't have the luxury of starting most games with 8 or 9 players who had started in and won either or the previous 2 Champions League finals. And Rogers still managed to finish in the same league position as he did the previous season, 4 points better off. He even added a major trophy.

Rodgers oversaw an epic league collapse that cost them top 4, for the second year in a row. It's simple.

Brendan Flowers

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Rodgers oversaw an epic league collapse that cost them top 4, for the second year in a row. It's simple.

And what about Klopp and Ole getting so many votes? Do you think they are deserved or is it just supporters just voting for "their" manager?

osarusan

Klopp getting 21 compared to 8 for Rogers is laughable alright, though looking at the voters, I don't immediately recognise too many obvious (obvious to me at least) Liverpool fans there.

machiavellianme

Bielsa

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Rodgers oversaw an epic league collapse that cost them top 4, for the second year in a row. It's simple.

Conversely, he had a mediocre team and managed to get 5th and a whisker from 4th despite key injuries at the wrong time and a frugal budget in comparison to those above them. He also finished higher than 2 of the "big 6". Oh and he won a cup for good measure.

GavRedKing

Rogers

Pep
Rodgers
Tuchel have had the best seasons in terms of winning trophies.

It should be realistically only Pep who is recognised as manager of the year.

His failing in the CL can't distract from their blistering mid season form which blew everyone away.

Rodgers and Leicester probably deserved top 4 more than Pool or Chelsea and he'll be gutted they couldn't get over the line but he's got them above the 2 London clubs and won a trophy also.

Tuchel has only 4 months and got Chelsea from mid table to CL winners but if you scratch beneath the surface that points slot towards Lampards failure with this squad which is one of the best around it was just let down by an inexperienced manager but you can't take away what Tuchel has done. It's not some Di Matteo 2012 fluke job either and if Tuchel stays around for a few years I can see him guiding Chelsea to a PL title but can't say he's been the best manager this year, despite winning the greatest prize.

LuckyLloyd

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

And what about Klopp and Ole getting so many votes? Do you think they are deserved or is it just supporters just voting for "their" manager?

I wouldn't vote for either Klopp or Ole.

All I'm saying is Rodgers lost 3 of the last 5 games when the pressure was on.

machiavellianme wrote: »

Conversely, he had a mediocre team and managed to get 5th and a whisker from 4th despite key injuries at the wrong time and a frugal budget in comparison to those above them. He also finished higher than 2 of the "big 6". Oh and he won a cup for good measure.

I really struggle to view his season successfully given he repeated a collapse in the thing that matters the most in the same way.

The FA and League Cups aren't remotely relevant imo.

CSF

Ole

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I wouldn't vote for either Klopp or Ole.

All I'm saying is Rodgers lost 3 of the last 5 games when the pressure was on.



I really struggle to view his season successfully given he repeated a collapse in the thing that matters the most in the same way.

The FA and League Cups aren't remotely relevant imo.

5th place (a point off the top 4) is still really impressive for Leicester regardless of whether they looked like they were going to achieve even more than that.

Guy:Incognito

Other

GavRedKing wrote: »

.

Rodgers and Leicester probably deserved top 4 more than Pool or Chelsea and he'll be gutted they couldn't get over the line but he's got them above the 2 London clubs and won a trophy also.

.

The league is 38 games over 9 months. It's a perfect format to show who "deserves" their position. There's no getting knocked out after a bad game . You've the whole year to average your form to finish where you finish.

If Leicester had lost the same games earlier but then gone on a run but ran out of games to get the needed points they would be in the same position and not "deserved " a top 4 finish any more or less.

Guy:Incognito

Other

TheCitizen wrote: »

They didn’t win it unopposed. They were behind earlier in the season and then found consistency. Tutchel has done a great job on his 4 months, but because it’s been just 4 months Pep is still manager of the season overall.

So because rangers played well all season, they were unopposed, even though the team in 2nd got more points than the team that finished behind city?
Seems to me that in your scenario, the only thing that opposed city was their own poor form at the beginning.

TheCitizen

Ole

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So because rangers played well all season, they were unopposed, even though the team in 2nd got more points than the team that finished behind city?
Seems to me that in your scenario, the only thing that opposed city was their own poor form at the beginning.

I don’t know what you’re talking about and I’m not sure you do either. In England there are a few teams capable of mounting a challenge for the league, in Scotland there’s only two so when one of them are in turmoil or going through a massive overhaul or transition then the other one is unopposed. That’s not the case in England. In other words when City weren’t at their best they found themselves behind in the table. In Scotland Rangers this season did not have to be at their best, they could afford several poor performances but still get away with it.

Guy:Incognito

Other

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don’t know what you’re talking about and I’m not sure you do either. In England there are a few teams capable of mounting a challenge for the league, in Scotland there’s only two so when one of them are in turmoil or going through a massive overhaul or transition then the other one is unopposed. That’s not the case in England.

You reckon rangers were unopposed. The team chasing them got more points than the team chasing city.


The team chasing rangers also won the last 9 titles in a row.

Going on what he has at his disposal, wining the league is almost a minimum for pep.

TheCitizen

Ole

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You reckon rangers were unopposed. The team chasing them got more points than the team chasing city.

Are you sitting there waiting LOL? I added another sentence above.

It’s a fine day, get out and enjoy the sunshine, I’m typing this outside.

Guy:Incognito

Other

TheCitizen wrote: »

Are you sitting there waiting LOL? I added another sentence above.

It’s a fine day, get out and enjoy the sunshine, I’m typing this outside.

Ah, we're pivoting to how quick I reply now.

I happened to click on the thread and saw you replied.

Phones work outside BTW, we're not all sat in a dark room leaning over a computer looking at boards.......

TheCitizen

Ole

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ah, we're pivoting to how quick I reply now.

I happened to click on the thread and saw you replied.

Phones work outside BTW, we're not all sat in a dark room leaning over a computer looking at boards.......

Pivoting from what exactly? What are you talking about? I already told you I am outside.

TheCitizen

Ole

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You reckon rangers were unopposed. The team chasing them got more points than the team chasing city.


The team chasing rangers also won the last 9 titles in a row.

Going on what he has at his disposal, wining the league is almost a minimum for pep.

Going by what you’re saying the EPL is a foregone conclusion for Man City. It isn’t

Guy:Incognito

Other

TheCitizen wrote: »

Going by what you’re saying the EPL is a foregone conclusion for Man City. It isn’t

The amount they spend and having the supposed best manager in the world. Winning the league isn't something worthy of some massive praise imo. It's expected.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Pivoting from what exactly? .

The point of the thread, you know, the football stuff.

TheCitizen

Ole

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The amount they spend and having the supposed best manager in the world. Winning the league isn't something worthy of some massive praise imo. It's expected.

In reality It’s not expected. If they ever get complacent and think it’s expected they’ll lose it immediately. Again repeating myself; that’s not the case in Scotland. It’s between Celtic and Rangers and if one of them is in bad nick as Celtic are now then the other has no opposition. If Celtic don’t get their act together very quickly which doesn’t look like happening Rangers are guaranteed the league and will win in second gear. The only place they’ll be challenged is in Europe. Been like that for Celtic when Rangers weren’t challenging.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The point of the thread, you know, the football stuff.

Are you sure you’re not on a laptop, it’s harder to split quotes like that on a phone, though not impossible obviously. LOL

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

Except his team finished first. You can pick who you like Guardiola has won the official League manager of the year award in England.

Does that mean that you think the team that finishes first should always win manager of the year? Seems contrary to your opinions elsewhere...

And I will pick who I like... that's, like, the point of the thread, right?

I always like to go for my patented 'start of the season' method for this one - If we jumped back to the start of the season, all the pieces set but a ball not yet been kicked. We know where the teams are, where they're coming from. And then you tell me the table, what's my instant gut reaction to some of the results. Sometimes ya need a bit more nuance on top, but to be honest that usually tells you all ya really need to know.

Looking at some of the key ones coming up along it'd go-
Bottom 3 - *solemn nod*.
Bielsa in 9th - *smile* Fair play to him, christ he's some man!
David Moyes in 6th - *burst of laughter* Are ya serious?! Fuckin' hell! Wow.
Rodgers in 5th - Ah good on him, keeping them up there.
Pep in 1st - *shrug - and that lip thing we all do when you nod to a stranger on the footpath* Now, if you add a caveat here like "with 100 points" you'll get a bigger reaction - maybe some eye widening, and a 'jeysus'. But none of that this year.

Tied in with having watched far too many of the games, the above still pretty much sums up my standout reactions. Moysey pullin' off the totally unexpected.

(oh, and i'm on a laptop at work... since that seems to be a thing we're saying)

Guy:Incognito

Other

TheCitizen wrote: »

In reality It’s not expected.

Does anyone outside of a few city fans that want to downplay a result of a particular year/competition not expect city to be winning the league at the beginning of the season? Plenty will say certain teams have a shot, but it's in relation to city being the ones they need to finish above to win it.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Are you sure you’re not on a laptop, it’s harder to split quotes like that on a phone, though not impossible obviously. LOL

Not sure what phone you have but Android has had copy and paste for years now. In fact I used it in this very post.

TheCitizen

Ole

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does anyone outside of a few city fans that want to downplay a result of a particular year/competition not expect city to be winning the league at the beginning of the season? Plenty will say certain teams have a shot, but it's in relation to city being the ones they need to finish above to win it.

.

Next season in England as a complete neutral I think Liverpool will come back strong and obviously Chelsea will have a good chance. They won’t be long shots.

You’re comparing that to Scotland. Right now Celtic are in disarray and have a huge rebuild on their hands but with a board in a state of flux not in a position to implement the necessary rebuild. In that scenario Rangers will win the league unopposed. There’s no comparison at all.

CSF

Ole

TheCitizen wrote: »

Next season in England as a complete neutral I think Liverpool will come back strong and obviously Chelsea will have a good chance. They won’t be long shots.

You’re comparing that to Scotland. Right now Celtic are in disarray and have a huge rebuild on their hands but with a board in a state of flux not in a position to implement the necessary rebuild. In that scenario Rangers will win the league unopposed. There’s no comparison at all.

You'll know this one better than me, so I'll defer to yourself on this, but will Celtic not be favourites next year?

~Rebel~

CSF wrote: »

You'll know this one better than me, so I'll defer to yourself on this, but will Celtic not be favourites next year?

And if they're not, I'd be pretty confident that the odds won't reflect them being some total outside shot that Rangers 'running unopposed' would imply.

I'd expect Rangers to be slight favourites alright though, given just how hugely impressive they were this year.

TheCitizen

Ole

CSF wrote: »

You'll know this one better than me, so I'll defer to yourself on this, but will Celtic not be favourites next year?

No. Oddschecker has Rangers 8/13 Celtic 6/4. I’d never back Rangers not even with your money LOL but that’s actually a good bet if you can find it. Would be better to wait a bit and see if Celtic can get their act together and appoint even a decent stop gap manager who could do a decent short term job. Apparently they’re going to appoint some Greek born Aussie bloke, if they do that 8/13 is buying money for that other lot.

TheCitizen

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

And if they're not, I'd be pretty confident that the odds won't reflect them being some total outside shot that Rangers 'running unopposed' would imply.

I'd expect Rangers to be slight favourites alright though, given just how hugely impressive they were this year.

They ran unopposed last season and will be running unopposed next season if Celtic continue to flounder about the place.

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

They ran unopposed last season and will be running unopposed next season if Celtic continue to flounder about the place.

To be honest, I find both opinions that you're holding to be totally fair and valid.

What's really interesting though is holding them together... playing down the achievement of Rangers unbeaten 100+ point season because their rivals struggled with their own internal problems - while firmly calling Pep manager of the year for (far less impressively) winning a league in which their rivals struggled with their own internal problems.

adaminho

Smith

I would have Callum Davidson up with Gerrard as manager of the season in Scotland. Won the the double in his first season in management up With St. Johnstone up against Celtic and Rangers.

TheCitizen

Ole

~Rebel~ wrote: »

To be honest, I find both opinions that you're holding to be totally fair and valid.

What's really interesting though is holding them together... playing down the achievement of Rangers unbeaten 100+ point season because their rivals struggled with their own internal problems - while firmly calling Pep manager of the year for (far less impressively) winning a league in which their rivals struggled with their own internal problems.

I’m not playing down the achievement of Rangers we’ve already been over this. I’m talking about the contrast in competitiveness of both leagues.

To be honest it’s hilarious that some here are trying to argue against the fact that there’s no comparison at all in terms of competitiveness between SPL and EPL. Must be havin a laughLOL.

TheCitizen

Ole

adaminho wrote: »

I would have Callum Davidson up with Gerrard as manager of the season in Scotland. Won the the double in his first season in management up With St. Johnstone up against Celtic and Rangers.

Good shout. Double Cup wins for St Johnstone, now that is a remarkable achievement.

~Rebel~

TheCitizen wrote: »

I’m not playing down the achievement of Rangers we’ve already been over this. I’m talking about the contrast in competitiveness of both leagues.

To be honest it’s hilarious that some here are trying to argue against the fact that there’s no comparison at all in terms of competitiveness between SPL and EPL. Must be havin a laughLOL.

I would say there's a fairly strong comparison between Liverpool winning the league last season, and Rangers winning it this.

In both cases, they really had one rival to beat - a rival that was utterly dominant in previous years, with greater resources.

In both cases they gee'd themselves up to deliver an absolutely phenomenal league performance - the type of performance that would be needed to challenge their rival at their best.

And in both instances, their rival dropped way off because of their own struggles (Man City dropped off 17 points, Celtic dropped off 10 points from the last full season - potentially more from last seasons projections before the halt).

IMO the rival's drop-off doesn't undermine what the two winners accomplished over the 38 games - in both cases they got higher points totals than their rivals had won the league with the preceding full season (caveated with 'full' since last season was halted in scotland - though they were still on course to fall just short of Ranger's 102).

One interesting stat that shows what Bielsa has done. Of the 16 players that featured in his first Leeds matchday squad 2 years ago, 10 played in the final game of the EPL season. He has transformed players who were written off as mid Championship level, Ayling, Harrison, Dallas, Bamford, Alioski, Cooper, Klich and others.

But for league manager of the season, I'd head into the Championship. And give it to Thomas Frank at Brentford. If Bielsa showed that you can keep players and make them better, Frank wasn't even really allowed to keep players. When you think of who he's had to sell, Maupay, Watkins, Benrahma, Konsa, Mepham etc., taking a side with a tight budget out of the hardest division playing good football is remarkable.

CSF

Ole

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One interesting stat that shows what Bielsa has done. Of the 16 players that featured in his first Leeds matchday squad 2 years ago, 10 played in the final game of the EPL season. He has transformed players who were written off as mid Championship level, Ayling, Harrison, Dallas, Bamford, Alioski, Cooper, Klich and others.

But for league manager of the season, I'd head into the Championship. And give it to Thomas Frank at Brentford. If Bielsa showed that you can keep players and make them better, Frank wasn't even really allowed to keep players. When you think of who he's had to sell, Maupay, Watkins, Benrahma, Konsa, Mepham etc., taking a side with a tight budget out of the hardest division playing good football is remarkable.

The only thing with Frank though is that he doesn’t have to step into the recruitment side of it at all. Maupay seems like an awful loss, until he’s replaced by Watkins, Watkins until he’s replaced by Toney etc.

Wonderful job being done across the club there and Frank clearly playing his role in that very well.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

The only thing with Frank though is that he doesn’t have to step into the recruitment side of it at all. Maupay seems like an awful loss, until he’s replaced by Watkins, Watkins until he’s replaced by Toney etc.

Think Leeds have something like that as well, don't think Bielsa identifies players, his team of assistants identify the stats and the Director of Football than looks for players that can generate those stats. Though think it's more fluid at Leeds,.even more analytical at Brentford.

Bleating Lamb

Not on the poll but Sean Dyche has once more had a good Season with Burnley.....he has a tiny budget to work with every year but just gets on with it.

CSF

Ole

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Think Leeds have something like that as well, don't think Bielsa identifies players, his team of assistants identify the stats and the Director of Football than looks for players that can generate those stats. Though think it's more fluid at Leeds,.even more analytical at Brentford.

Think Leeds is more of a coaching job than a recruitment job though, whereas I’d say Brentford is on the other side of that line. That isn’t to negate the job that Frank has done, just pointing out that I think it’s a really good spot for a coach to land. Setup for success and the project just kept rolling when Smith left.

bucketybuck

Bielsa

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So because rangers played well all season, they were unopposed, even though the team in 2nd got more points than the team that finished behind city?

I don't think this refutes what the other poster was saying.

In a situation where one of the teams in a two horse race is having a bad season, I would still fully expect them to beat all the other teams and easily finish second. Thats just a consequence of the two big teams being so far ahead of everybody else.

So Celtic being so poor as to leave Rangers effectively unopposed, but still being better than the other Scottish clubs, that all sounds plausible to me.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

Think Leeds is more of a coaching job than a recruitment job though, whereas I’d say Brentford is on the other side of that line. That isn’t to negate the job that Frank has done, just pointing out that I think it’s a really good spot for a coach to land. Setup for success and the project just kept rolling when Smith left.

True, Bielsa is all about coaching whereas Frank has qualifications in sports psychology.. In fact maybe they are the reverse of each other, the similarity is more in the division of functions and breaking down the game analytically rather than saying they do the exact same thing.

Brendan Flowers

So 25 votes for Klopp and 17 votes for Ole now. Has anyone who has voted for these managers actually given a reason why they think either of them are manager of the season? The only obvious reason to me is that people are selecting them is because they manage the teams that these voters support. Which is the kind of stuff you'd expect in the schoolyard. So I'd be interested to hear some logical reasons for these votes.

jebidiah

Tuchel

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

So 25 votes for Klopp and 17 votes for Ole now. Has anyone who has voted for these managers actually given a reason why they think either of them are manager of the season? The only obvious reason to me is that people are selecting them is because they manage the teams that these voters support. Which is the kind of stuff you'd expect in the schoolyard. So I'd be interested to hear some logical reasons for these votes.

I am one who voted for Klopp and support Liverpool. Pep was written off at the start of the season, but brought City back to win the league. Incredible stuff really, but he has the resources and manpower to do that.

Liverpool suffered a few key injuries, but remained top around Christmas. They then suffered a 'few' more injuries, complete collapse in form, losing 6 at home and dropping to 8th. The last ten games of the season saw the team, still riddled with injuries and out of form players climb not to 4th, but to 3rd.

Heads dropped, fans sputtered, but Klopp somehow kept them going. With a 19 year old CB and a lad who was probably gone out of Liverpool putting in incredible performances and demonstrations of resilience (they both made a few howlers but came back from them).

It shows Klopp is able to get the absolute max out of players, and keep them going to absolute very end.