Deplorable Conditions at Halting Site

Gunmonkey

Mike Murdock wrote: »

It baffles me that people will make excuse after excuse after excuse about something as simple as Travellers keeping their living spaces clean and habitable.

I've never seen anything like it.

It is ludicrous. To me it was one of the 3 main reasons for negativity towards Travellers/failure to integrating, alongside pulling their kids from school and feuds, that is purely self imposed. No touch from the "Settled" community in these three things, its all negative elements the Traveller community hoists onto itself...

....but no.....now its not their fault anymore, its someone else's fault! Its that evil racist Local Authority not coming and cleaning up after them, like a carer for an incontinent adult who spits and derides the carer as they clean up after them.

:rolleyes:

suicide_circus

whisky_galore wrote: »

Tink of de childers bass.

But it's utterly ridiculous. A shortcut by definition is an optional route. If it's perpetually muddy then don't use it. The person writing the report must know this. Is this inclusion a coded cry for help?

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Do you think leaving children on an unsafe filthy site crawling with vermin is appropriate? And need I remind you that these conditions were created by the adults that are supposed to be minding them

You don't need a fetac level 5 qualification to know that it's a completely inappropriate setting for animals, let alone children

Maybe Tusla should have my input, because they seem unable to recognise and act in a real child welfare case staring them right in the face.

Again, how do you know they haven't investigated and involved? What information do you have other than this 1 report?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Love to see you at the scene of an accident.
"Should we maybe try and pull that conscious person screaming in the burning wreckage of that car?"
"What makes you think you're qualified to make such a suggestion?"

Been there, because I am qualified however your little scenario is completely off target.

Again, you have no inside information and have absolutely zero idea what actions tusla have taken.

eviltwin

suicide_circus wrote: »

But it's utterly ridiculous. A shortcut by definition is an optional route. If it's perpetually muddy then don't use it. The person writing the report must know this. Is this inclusion a coded cry for help?

I think its code for the complete inertia of the people in this site to do anything to better themselves.

I appreciate that its not always the case that they can do the improvements themselves but surely anyone living on a site with rubbish would at the very least tidy it up. If someone dumps rubbish in my garden I'll clean it up, why are travellers held to a lower bar than the rest of us?

MrMusician18

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Again, how do you know they haven't investigated and involved? What information do you have other than this 1 report?

Based on the ombudsman report we can infer that Tusla have either done an investigation and not acted or not done an investigation at all. Which is worse??

Do you think the above is an appropriate setting for children?
Leaving children to be raised in filth, what are Tusla at?

suicide_circus

eviltwin wrote: »

I think its code for the complete inertia of the people in this site to do anything to better themselves.

I appreciate that its not always the case that they can do the improvements themselves but surely anyone living on a site with rubbish would at the very least tidy it up. If someone dumps rubbish in my garden I'll clean it up, why are travellers held to a lower bar than the rest of us?

Bigotry of low expectations.

jmreire

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Based on the ombudsman report we can infer that Tusla have either done an investigation and not acted or not done an investigation at all. Which is worse??

Do you think the above is an appropriate setting for children?
Leaving children to be raised in filth, what are Tusla at?

Its a problem OK, but what would you like to see Tusla actually doing? Visiting halting sites, declaring some of them unfit for children, and taking the children into care? What else could they do?

Jerry Attrick

jmreire wrote: »

Its a problem OK, but what would you like to see Tusla actually doing? Visiting halting sites, declaring some of them unfit for children, and taking the children into care? What else could they do?

Pick up some of the rubbish?

Mad_maxx

Nuke the entire thing from orbit

jmreire

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Pick up some of the rubbish?

No, its not in the job description , (as far as i'm aware )I think that particular job falls on the local councils.....unfortunately.

MrMusician18

jmreire wrote: »

Its a problem OK, but what would you like to see Tusla actually doing? Visiting halting sites, declaring some of them unfit for children, and taking the children into care? What else could they do?

If that's what's necessary that's what they should do. And it's what they'd do for anyone else tbh.

It's a disgrace that Tusla discriminate against these children, preventing them getting a decent start in life.

joseywhales

Im not sure if I can ask someone to do something that I wouldn't be willing to do myself. Could you imagine trying to get into a halting site to take their children? I would feel like a colonizer rounding up aboriginal kids, to brain wash them in state schools, where they will be abused, if history tells me anything. While I ponder this in the middle of a police traveller battle with dogs and God knows what else, to earn some social workers salary. It's just lose lose for everyone.

Murph85

Lads I take all responsibility for the deplorable conditions, never stepped foot in the place. But it sure as hell isn't the travellers creating the problem...

jmreire

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If that's what's necessary that's what they should do. And it's what they'd do for anyone else tbh.

It's a disgrace that Tusla discriminate against these children, preventing them getting a decent start in life.

Unfortunately, Travellers are treated differently than the settled community ( call it racist if you wish, and for sure at least some of it is) But another reason is that if they have a habit of behaving agressively towards anyone trying to "police" the site, Council workers, watchmen, CCTV etc. Imagine Tusla trying to take some of their children away from there......not going to happen. If the same kids have a checquered school attendance record, and Tusla ( or anyone else ) has great difficulty in enforcing it, image what would be like for Tusla to do their job?

1874

Gunmonkey wrote: »

It is ludicrous. To me it was one of the 3 main reasons for negativity towards Travellers/failure to integrating, alongside pulling their kids from school and feuds, that is purely self imposed. No touch from the "Settled" community in these three things, its all negative elements the Traveller community hoists onto itself...

....but no.....now its not their fault anymore, its someone else's fault! Its that evil racist Local Authority not coming and cleaning up after them, like a carer for an incontinent adult who spits and derides the carer as they clean up after them.

:rolleyes:

Well, I agree with what you are saying, except it is no comparison... to an incontinent adult, because an incontinent adult, you could reasonably conclude doesn't have control over their own actions or some other capacity to understand,
whats going on here is ingrained ignorance, backed up by weak politics and policy.

jmreire wrote: »

Unfortunately, Travellers are treated differently than the settled community ( call it racist if you wish, and for sure at least some of it is) But another reason is that if they have a habit of behaving agressively towards anyone trying to "police" the site, Council workers, watchmen, CCTV etc. Imagine Tusla trying to take some of their children away from there......not going to happen. If the same kids have a checquered school attendance record, and Tusla ( or anyone else ) has great difficulty in enforcing it, image what would be like for Tusla to do their job?

I dont think anyone is expecting them to go in alone, public order unit,
Children should be removed from that environment (toxic parenting and culture).

Gunmonkey

1874 wrote: »

Well, I agree with what you are saying, except it is no comparison... to an incontinent adult, because an incontinent adult, you could reasonably conclude doesn't have control over their own actions or some other capacity to understand,
whats going on here is ingrained ignorance, backed up by weak politics and policy.

True, not the greatest metaphor ever.

I dont think anyone is expecting them to go in alone, public order unit,
Children should be removed from that environment (toxic parenting and culture).

No matter who backed up Tusla, would still turn into a s**tshow. You know that phone cameras would be whipped out the instant they rocked up and the footage on the 6:01 that evening, being described as "....harrowing footage as children are ripped from their mothers arms...". Even though every time this report has been mentioned in the media its been through the prism of "but the childrens"....but any attempt to remove them from a third-world environment (that gobsheen Collins from Pavee Points words, not mine) would not go well or face massive resistance.

jmreire

Gunmonkey wrote: »

True, not the greatest metaphor ever.



No matter who backed up Tusla, would still turn into a s**tshow. You know that phone cameras would be whipped out the instant they rocked up and the footage on the 6:01 that evening, being described as "....harrowing footage as children are ripped from their mothers arms...". Even though every time this report has been mentioned in the media its been through the prism of "but the childrens"....but any attempt to remove them from a third-world environment (that gobsheen Collins from Pavee Points words, not mine) would not go well or face massive resistance.

And not to mention the legal end of things.... claims and compensations etc. The Childer ( and their parents ) would be set up for life. Best thing that could possibly happen to them. Only way to change this has to come from themselves,,,,,Senator Eileen Flynn ( and Pavee Point )should be visiting halting sites and actively encouraging travellers to at least attend school and get a leaving or vocational cert. Blaming everyone else is not the answer, producing expensive reports which fail to mention traveller responsibility for the situation is a waste of time and money.

1874

Gunmonkey wrote: »

True, not the greatest metaphor ever.

No matter who backed up Tusla, would still turn into a s**tshow. You know that phone cameras would be whipped out the instant they rocked up and the footage on the 6:01 that evening, being described as "....harrowing footage as children are ripped from their mothers arms...". Even though every time this report has been mentioned in the media its been through the prism of "but the childrens"....but any attempt to remove them from a third-world environment (that gobsheen Collins from Pavee Points words, not mine) would not go well or face massive resistance.

Im not even criticising that part of the post, its just the travelling community themselves seem to think they have no ownership in taking care of themself, their children or their surroundings (certainly in this example and others that have been mentioned, some Ive seen myself).
They actually have the capacity to keep their situation tidy and dealt with but refuse, it appears to me they expect tp be waited on hand and foot.


As for it not getting dealt with, I also agree, it would be a farce, so the alternative is they end up living in a worse situation mostly if not completely generated by themselves and they perpetuate that down through the generations and foist it upon their children.
Someone mentioned it a longtime ago in boards, there is a German word for those that want to live outside society, my understanding is that it is allowed and accepted (although I dont think it would be tolerated that you could cause such a mess literally), but that being outside society by choice, doesn't enable you to access every service provided by the state.

I've no doubt there are settled people who have a similar mentality, but what these people are doing is worse imo, because not only are they taking from the state, the levels of support that are required seems to point a certain sense of entitlement to have an entire system behind them to support and clean up after them, it's outrageous and ridiculous.

Omackeral

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Pick up some of the rubbish?

Why bother, the Maori will be along probably 5 minutes later to tip their trash again.

MrMusician18

Gunmonkey wrote: »

True, not the greatest metaphor ever.



No matter who backed up Tusla, would still turn into a s**tshow. You know that phone cameras would be whipped out the instant they rocked up and the footage on the 6:01 that evening, being described as "....harrowing footage as children are ripped from their mothers arms...". Even though every time this report has been mentioned in the media its been through the prism of "but the childrens"....but any attempt to remove them from a third-world environment (that gobsheen Collins from Pavee Points words, not mine) would not go well or face massive resistance.

So the answer is for the state to stand idly by while these children are subject to neglect because they've been intimidated off the site? Because they fear some opinion writers in the Irish times, writers who wouldn't be seen within an asses roar of a halting site?

A good acid test for any of these bleeding hearts is if they would send their child into a halting site trick or treating at Halloween.

Any resistance could easily be countered by facts. Explain that the items in the report were under the control of the travellers themselves and that until they could provide a safe clean environment, Tusla would be stepping in.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If that's what's necessary that's what they should do. And it's what they'd do for anyone else tbh.

It's a disgrace that Tusla discriminate against these children, preventing them getting a decent start in life.

Foster care, because that's a great track record.

You know what assume does?

deandean

Look, if the people living on that halting site got together and hired a few Skips and spent one weekend clearing up all the rubbish they would have a pristine site.
So why don't they do it?
It's nothing to do with the cost. They can spend 10 grand on a marquee and facilities for a wedding.
They have a vans, grab trucks and other equipment that would help them do the job. but they don't make use of them.
I can only conclude that they have made a conscious decision to live in this mess that they are in.
I do feel bad for their kids who are stuck in these living conditions. But their parents will not take responsibility and clean up the site.
So they sit there whinging and waiting for the council to come and clean up their mess.
And the report that is the subject of this thread is a complete whitewash in that it does not direct one ounce of responsibility onto the residents of this halting site. This report should be thrown in a skip. If you can find one!
Residents of that halting site, please clean up your mess, and you will have a really nice site to live in, courtesy of the State..

deandean

deandean wrote: »

Look, if the people living on that halting site got together and hired a few Skips and spent one weekend clearing up all the rubbish they would have a pristine site.
So why don't they do it?
It's nothing to do with the cost. They can spend 10 grand on a marquee and facilities for a wedding.
They have a vans, grab trucks and other equipment that would help them do the job. but they don't make use of them.
I can only conclude that they have made a conscious decision to live in this mess that they are in.
I do feel bad for their kids who are stuck in these living conditions. But their parents will not take responsibility and clean up the site.
So they sit there whinging and waiting for the council to come and clean up their mess.
And the report that is the subject of this thread is a complete whitewash in that it does not direct one ounce of responsibility onto the residents of this halting site. This report should be thrown in a skip. If you can find one!
Residents of that halting site, please clean up your mess, and you will have a really nice site to live in, courtesy of the State..

They did, but settled people come at night and dump more rubbish

punisher5112

Why wasn't a proper report done on how they conduct themselves, destroy the environment, burn all sorts of rubbish, tyres, cables to get copper, animal cruelty which seems to never be discussed, much much higher proportion into all sorts of crime and drug crime too, it just seems nuts all these reports coming out and never any blame on their own personal responsibility.


I see absolutely no reason for their status and how it was given.

Why have they more rights then those that actually fund their lifestyles.

1874

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why wasn't a proper report done on how they conduct themselves, destroy the environment, burn all sorts of rubbish, tyres, cables to get copper, animal cruelty which seems to never be discussed, much much higher proportion into all sorts of crime and drug crime too, it just seems nuts all these reports coming out and never any blame on their own personal responsibility.


I see absolutely no reason for their status and how it was given.

Why have they more rights then those that actually fund their lifestyles.

Because our politicians are self serving idiots

1874

deandean wrote: »

Look, if the people living on that halting site got together and hired a few Skips and spent one weekend clearing up all the rubbish they would have a pristine site.
So why don't they do it?
It's nothing to do with the cost. They can spend 10 grand on a marquee and facilities for a wedding.
They have a vans, grab trucks and other equipment that would help them do the job. but they don't make use of them.
I can only conclude that they have made a conscious decision to live in this mess that they are in.
I do feel bad for their kids who are stuck in these living conditions. But their parents will not take responsibility and clean up the site.
So they sit there whinging and waiting for the council to come and clean up their mess.
And the report that is the subject of this thread is a complete whitewash in that it does not direct one ounce of responsibility onto the residents of this halting site. This report should be thrown in a skip. If you can find one!
Residents of that halting site, please clean up your mess, and you will have a really nice site to live in, courtesy of the State..

Dont make use of them?
You have to look at the silver lining, at least the council can go and collect the rubbish in one spot rather than in ditches halfway across the county :rolleyes:

edit, Ive witnessed this happening, rubbish being tipped by them, I've no doubt they are not the only ones at it, but I've seen confirmation they are up to it to a greater extent and they have the time and means to do so.
As for a horse being whipped, which I saw an animal subjected to, I knew where it would go if I challenged it.
There is a need for some hard truths

Does anyone have a link to the comment, or thread at least, where the infamous settled people dump their rubbish on halting sites comment was made. I need a good laugh.

JP Liz V1

Paul Byrne for VM1 news visited and interviewed some, sewage **** water was coming back up that is disgusting, I suppose some things they cannot rectify themselves

punisher5112

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Paul Byrne for VM1 news visited and interviewed some, sewage **** water was coming back up that is disgusting, I suppose some things they cannot rectify themselves

You would think one could find someone in there able to throw a few roads down the man hole, they near all have plenty of nice vans and cars, stuff I couldn't afford anyway.....

We have a blocked sewer we go at it unless it's so serious the call in the drain guys

eeepaulo

Probably ask us to pay for the gutters to be cleaned out, roof to be fixed and maybe a nice new drive way.