The Eternals (MCU)

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118531682#Comment_118531682

No I just don't want to upset you snowflakes (or the fanboys) any longer

johnny_ultimate

Mod note: Enough trolling. Don’t post in this thread again, mrcheez.

BruteStock

Can't say its the lowest point in the MCU when generally the MCU is a low point in itself. Crud such as The Dark World , Age Of Ultron and even End Game I thought flopped harder than The Eternals. #MartinScorsese

While the film itself wasn't woke , the casting choices certainly gave a platform to the stars to signal their virtue to the press , and that's exactly what they did. When you have to rub-it-in it kinda ruins whatever good intent you tried to portray initially and you end up coming off like a phoney.

Likewise for the leftist progressives on social media who applaud the inclusivity and believe they contribute to a societal change for the better.

Statistically only 9% of kids watch the MCU. Grown adults watch these films and TV shows mostly.

Personally I feel there's a great deal of overreach starting to happen and just like all of the progressives are out with their pitchforks looking to stab anything that moves that they deem racist, sexist, misogynistic, bigoted etc.. rightfully or wrongfully. Usually they just make stuff up after awhile. They see fascism and injustice everywhere.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532177#Comment_118532177

End Game was the biggest grossing movie in history and rated highly by critics - how is that possibly a flop on any metrics?

Not sure what your issue is with actors saying a good thing is good - if anyone sees casting non-white actors in roles is 'overreach' it says a hell of a lot more about them.

Where do you get your 9% of kids stat from? Google isn't showing anything and the wording raises a red flags of one of those manipulated stats and ignores the knock on children's tv show and toys.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532177#Comment_118532177

Statistically 15% of "adults" watch things they already know they wont like so that they can be edgy and post buzzword bingo crap about "woke" everywhere.

pixelburp

A bizarre segue all round, trying to flimsily rationalise why a positive engagement and representation of deaf people is somehow, in fact, dreadful and should be booed.

Just let us have nice things. It doesn't always have to be PC Gone Mad. Nor does it need saying either.

All fiction is contrived; it's all made up from somebody's head. Especially the Jack Kirby acid trips.

FunLover18

Imagine thinking someone's mere existence as a deaf person or POC is a virtue to be signalled 🙄

Useless Lump

I’m a fan of the Marvel movies but know nothing of the comics.

why is it that the character with the best superpower was missing for the whole movie? They only brought her out when her speed was needed?

The Eternals are androids, right? I don’t understand the purpose of a deaf android or one that looks like a child.

before anyone has a panic attack I have nothing against deaf or child superheroes but if they are being create to fight then shouldn’t they be able to hear danger?

I think the actress was wasted in this. She is is good in The Walking Dead and could have been the lead in her own MCU show instead of being an afterthought in this.

flazio

Just so your aware, we are going to get a deaf lead D+ show. Alaqua Cox is continuing the story of Maya Lopez in "Echo" sometime soon. I know Alaqua got some unfairly harsh criticism for her performance in Hawkeye but it's forgivable as it was her first major television role. People can grow into acting. Lauren Ridloffs husband, Douglas Ridloff was the liaison between the director and the deaf talent for both his wife and Alaqua on Hawkeye.

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532811#Comment_118532811

I watched that at Christmas

I thought Echo was great but wasn’t sure if she was really deaf as the sign language was clearly shown

it seems to like they were hiding it just out of shot

and nothing wrong with having two deaf heroes in two shows ;) - I’m saying you meant that just voicing my opinion

flazio

I even know of a third one, Natasha Ofili performed the motion capture and physical likeness for a deaf girl called Gloria in last year's spin off of Insomniacs Spider-man games focusing on Miles Morales. Natasha, Alaqua and Laura are all deaf mutes in real life.

Both my late grandparents on my dads side were deaf so you certainly won't hear or read any complaints about their representation on screen from me.

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532878#Comment_118532878

I’m not complaining either

the dead woman in this film was by far the highlight - she wasn’t in it enough

but I don’t understand the purpose of her creator making her deaf

I was assume

I was assuming she is in the comics and is deaf. I know these pre-date the whole equality and diversity so I had assumed this role was nothing to do with “representation”

so there must be a reason for creating her deaf in the comic

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532864#Comment_118532864

It's an extremely narrow minded view that means anyone who doesn't conform with the holders views of normal (presumably white and straight) is seen a tokenistic gesture of virtue.

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532918#Comment_118532918

I haven’t seen those comments but there certainly have been token gestures in movies throughout the years and several in these more recent times

i just wish someone would answer my question though - I assume the speedster is from the original comic which would be fin before all the diversity and equality stuff. So why was she created deaf? The leader was programmed to be their leader. The fighters were programmed to fight. So there must be a purpose to her being deaf.

johnny_ultimate

Why does there have to be a ‘reason’ for a character to be deaf? There are deaf people in the world - they don’t have to justify their existence, and are every bit as entitled to be represented on screen as anyone else.

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533106#Comment_118533106

Here we go

my question has nothing to do with all that - I’m talking about a character in a fantasy movie based on a fantasy comic book - that is what the thread in The entertainment section is about right?

I have no interest in discussing diversity, representation, social justice, etc. etc.

thisbis a question about the characters, the story and the comic book - nothing else

She is a robot warrior created by an alien being to fight a certain type of monster

others of her kind were programmed to be fighters or engineers - so she must have been created deaf for a reason and the other one must have been made to look like a child for a reason

im asking what the reason was - what advantage did it give them in their mission?

Useless Lump

Okay, she wasn’t deaf in the comics and wasn’t a woman either

does this mean they will gender swap other heroes? I’d support that idea

so since she was created for the movie and there is no reason given in the movie then she is just deaf because their creator wanted her to be deaf - so that is the reason

she barely features in the movie until the plot requires someone to move fast - she does seem to be a “token” character and that is a shame as she had the best power and the most likeable personality

her fight will the budget superman was the best part of the movie

pity they weren’t interested in more than representation

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533168#Comment_118533168

I think someone previously suggested it was so that she wouldn't be deafened by her own sonic booms. We also don't know if she was created deaf, maybe she was deafened over time by her powers. We also don't know the Eternal creation process. Maybe it's as glitchy as our own. But I'm kinda with Johnny on this in that I don't think there has to be a reason.

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533238#Comment_118533238

And here is another one not interested in discussing a fantasy film

I’m not the one here in disguise

I am interested in character and plot

you just want to rant about some “issue”

so please do tell how deaf people would make me uncomfortable?

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533245#Comment_118533245

okay so to protect her “health” could be a good reason as could damage over time

the fact it isn’t brought up in the film just highlights even more that the character was severely underused

The film wasn’t great - there was just too many characters. The actor’s butler had more development than the speedster.

ans I read that when the director joined the film she actually had a few other Eternals taken out of the story

Good grief

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533311#Comment_118533311

What is weird is that this is thread about a superhero movie and your here flapping your fingers about “social justice” rubbish

your out? At least I can get back to discussing the movie

Useless Lump

Does this “representation” stuff happen a lot in the entertainment section?

pjohnson

Makkari was sidestepped for the same reason most speedsters are in all mediums too OP and would solve most issues while the other Eternals are striking a pose.

ShaneU

Watched the first half hour and it bored the life out of me. Here's the colours of Benetton heroes fighting the most generic looking aliens ever. You don't even know their names let alone have any reason to care about them. When they introduced the love story after 30 minutes between two characters I have zero investment in I had enough. Are the other two hours any better?

BruteStock

Ill have a go since nobody wants to answer Lumps question.

So ... if I had guess why a deaf person was cast as an Eternal , its because there exists a slightly prolific actor that stars in The Walking Dead who is deaf. If the casting directors wanted to cast a range of diverse people to fill the roles , then Lauren Ridloff is a logical casting choice. The seasons she features in TWD are some of the best in the series. In fact season 11 is as good as the show ever was in its heyday. She brought charm to the Eternals and I don't see the issue despite some mewling slander thats been thrown around.

The issue about isn't about Ridloff and always about people to latch onto a cause to perch themselves upon a nice peachy pedestal. Hate to burst their bubbles but The Eternals isn't reinventing the wheel. Early Edition got their 20 years ago with Marrisa who was just a good character who everybody enjoyed. But that was a simpler time when the world was more happier and colorful and when there was no political interest from the youth

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533329#Comment_118533329

In fairness mrcheez was the one who brought up wokeness and social issues.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533335#Comment_118533335

Because a certain group of posters come into threads with tired old complaints (or 'questions') every time someone that isn't a straight white male is cast in a major role - apparently that is now extended to actors with disabilities.

The topic wouldn't be spoken about otherwise as the majority of posters don't care about the gender, race, orientation, or disability.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533329#Comment_118533329

This started because a user was moaning about PC / woke / blah blah 'cos the cast is diverse. People were discussing the movie in of itself, but as Foxtrol already said, as usual in 2020+ online discussion, it got bogged down by a small minority whinging because - oh my gosh - the casting was intentionally inclusive.

As you say, it's a Fantasy Film. That genre rarely holds up to intense scrutiny and anyway: it doesn't always have to make logical sense; trying to parse some hidden meaning or narrative justification for "it might be nice to have a deaf person play a superhero" is pointless. Just let it be. Turns out it had a positive net benefit for (American) Sign Language and deaf awareness - and that's a good thing. That really shouldn't need explaining.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533106#Comment_118533106

You'd think that, but here we are. Hearing problems seem to remain a depressingly common issue among people to this day: the idea deaf children might watch a film, with a deaf superhero kicking áss and gain a warm, inclusive feeling that their health issue isn't a disability is fantastic. Kids like seeing heroes that are like them, doing their thing. Fúck the bad faith haters TBH. Maybe that's just my recent parental gene kicking into overdrive, but this entire segue is coated with a dismal, rotten cynicism masquerading as intellectual rigour.

I'm still chuckling at the idea a MCU film with a predominantly Asian cast (Chinese? AKA the most populous country on Earth) might still be accused of "diversity" though. That's hilarious - and telling.

Penn

I thought the diversity of the cast (in terms of the characters within the story rather than the casting) was to help them blend in with society and appear less threatening when not fighting Deviants. That's why half of them had fighting-based powers, and half had powers to help advance or protect humanity. Being diverse or showing that some of them have disabilities just like normal humans would make people more likely to trust them wherever in the world they needed to go.

Their role wasn't just to fight Deviants, but to help the population advance and grow so the Celestial could be born. With there being 10 Eternals, diversity among them would help them move humanity along quicker.

SouthWesterly

I watched it over 2 nights recently and after all the hype was looking forward to it.

That I took 2 days to watch it says everything for me. It was mediocre at best.

Doctor DooM

Once again, I will point out the promo material states Makkari is deaf because she'd destroy her ears anyway from the sonic booms she creates. There is an in universe explanation. Ignoring that for the sake of discussion doesn't make it untrue.

As for Sprite, half the Eternals are made to physically defend humanity, the other half are to inspire and help humanity grow. I would assume Sprite's appearance is designed to put people at ease. It's not stated directly in the film but like... that's clearly the reason.

Honestly I'm getting really tired of people screaming woke when anything that isn't just white men are on the screen. To paraphrase the producer of Spider-Man when asked about multi racial casting "the inspiration is reality".

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533865#Comment_118533865

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'all the hype'?

This movie had one of the lowest levels of hype I can remember for an MCU movie before it was released with opening weekend box office expectations were lower than nearly any other MCU movie. If you're only watching it now then the hype is even lower given that it was relatively panned by critics, and the majority of fans were at best 'meh' about it after watching.

There was intrigue by some before the movie came out based on the director, cast, and the mostly unknown characters but compared to most MCU movies the 'hype' for this one was in the toilet.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536059#Comment_118536059

It even got a feature on rte news. That's what caught my attention

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536121#Comment_118536121

Didn't see that at all. What was the story?

Only thing I see online from googling is the connection with a Trinity academic - not what I'd call 'hype', more the usual reach to connect anything to Ireland.

Potential-Monke

I thought it was pants. It felt pointless and feels like there's so many issues it should create in the other films, but it won't... It feels like they're constantly trying to out-catastrophe the last film, and it's getting ridiculous. I'm on board with the Dimension stuff, even time travel to an extent, but I feel they've gone too far too soon with this plot, and some film will badly need to address the giant hand and head sticking out of the ocean, that alone should have caused tsunamis if not some effect on the core of the Earth itself?!

I dunno, seems like it has created far more problems than it intended, or maybe it did intend it, time will tell. Still, didn't save it for being a film that really wasn't needed, or at least I don't see the need for it yet (non-comic person here, so no spoilers directed towards me please! I can skim over posts, but I'll read one directed at me!). I just don't see how they're going to integrate going forward, or put to the "probably doing something else while this current world ending event is happening", like Captain Marvel. But Endgame set such a high bar, it's impossible to stay there imo. Spiderman worked because it not only was a great standalone story, it didn't feel world ending so didn't require more avenger types, which makes it believable. Also had the nostalgia, and was just an amazing film overall. Best part of Eternals was the introduction of Blade (kinda).

Re: the speedster, once you find out they're created, I genuinely wondered why she was deaf then, not out of whatever crap ye are debating above, but from a genuine "I wonder why" angle. Because the speed could damage her hearing is a good one, so I'll go with that until/if they flesh her out more. One of the better ones, but as said earlier speedsters can be OP so get little screen time.

So yeah, I'd have no issue if they just brushed this under the rug and continued on, because I think trying to integrate them into the MCU as a whole (other than a deus ex machina for an Endgame event) will be problematic.

Bacchus

Ended up watching in it two parts (it's long and the other half isn't in to the MCU stuff). I really enjoyed it. One of the better new entries to the MCU in recent years, particularly stands out as one of those ensemble superhero movies that manages to get the balance right between the characters (despite the long run-time). I give credit too that, while it's light on action (only final fights, in particular the Makkerie - Ikarus fight stand out for me. The attack on Druig's community was decent too) it more than makes up for it in terms of being quite an engaging movie. I enjoyed the different personalities and perspectives of the Eternals. They're all just goodie goodies, they had their own layers to them and that doesn't come through often enough in superhero movies IMO. Visually, it was great and again stands out when compared to the standard MCU flick. They even gave the Deviants decent screentime and context. Alright they weren't particularly interesting, but their inclusion was purposeful and their origins even gave them some sympathy.

I don't think I've much negative to say about it TBH except maybe it's a bit long, but then if they cut out stuff it'd feel rushed and disjointed. The 'giant beam in the sky' ending is a bit done by now but having Ikarus oppose the others added some spice to the finale.

So... in the MCU, is the Earth just going to have this giant Celestial sticking out it, poking in to the upper atmosphere? I assume the rest of it's body in still in the Earth's crust... that can't be good.

Final thing - Go on Barry Keoghan. Druig was a small enough role in the grand scheme of things but he was great in all his scenes.

Mickeroo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544994#Comment_118544994

My wife is a geologist and had serious issues with the celestial birthing 😂

flazio

I wonder if the Haiti eruption had happened shortly before the movie was due to come out if that might have delayed it.

The White Wolf

Dane Whitman, Makkari, Druig, Sersi, Ikaris.... I think they did enough to make the audience want to see these characters again. That in itself is a success. The clever thing to do though might be to scatter them in other films as opposed to a direct sequel.

kerplun k

Caught this tonight and have to say I was very pleasantly surprised. It looked gorgeous, even on my TV at home. It’s probably MCUs best looking film, and was a nice deviation from the standard filter they use over the other films. I also enjoyed how disconnected this was from the MCU, sure they had a few lines connecting it, but it really could exist outside the MCU. I found the story asked some intriguing questions, and I really could see the conflicting perspectives from each of the Eternals.

I had the usual Marvel gripes with the lazy deviants CGI fight scenes, and the team was a little of over stuffed, but overall, I enjoyed this much more than I expected. Definitely my favourite of the post endgame films. I’d like to see Marvel make more films like this one. It had unique print on it, an interesting story, and very nice visuals.

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118661464#Comment_118661464

What was the “unique print” you saw?

I was just reading an interview with Zhao and the writer called the film “a mix of indie filmmaking and Marvel blockbuster”.

it isn’t the first comment like that and I honestly don’t get this or the “divisiveness” or how it was “Marvel’s risky left turn”.

It was an enjoyable Marvel movie - it didn’t look any different to any other superhero film or other MCU movie. I didn’t really take to the characters and the ones I did like were sidelined. I don’t care whether character are are straight or gay, etc. and I get that makes releasing the film in some countries a problem but if you know in advance the film wound get released in Saudi Arabia then it isn’t a risk. I don’t see how there being a gay superhero is divisive among fans.

kerplun k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799838#Comment_118799838

By unique print, I meant that I felt this was an outlier of the MCU. It was the least generic, from the the story, to the colour palette, the characters, it was just nice to sit down and watch an MCU film that looked like the director had some influence on.

plastic glass

I have to say I really liked this. It was definitely interesting and has its problems Gemma Chan is woeful in this, Nanjiani’s character is utterly pointless (both plot and power) and just randomly trots off near the end, the deviants are uninteresting but to be fair are not the main enemies really.

however they do a good job exploring the lore and mythology, I like the flashback scenes and though I’m not a fan of jolie I really enjoyed her performance and the character. Plus druig was pretty cool also

do I want a sequel? Meh, I wouldn’t be adverse to one. But I also think it really worked as an interesting stand alone film that totally works in the current MCU without impacting on any of the already complex storylines (the multiverse is gonna get very convoluted very quickly)

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118800642#Comment_118800642

I didn’t see it as detached from the MCU but it did feel like it out of place in the MCU. Just suddenly a race of super beings are here the whole time. I can’t quite get it in words but it just doesn’t fit.

I don’t know about generic but the story was not very interesting and was completely predictable (with the exception of Nanjina’s decision to leave). It was obvious Madden was the “villain” and that Chan was going to be passed the torch of leadership, that the Deviants were going to turn out to not be the big bad, that the creator was the real big bad, etc.

The characters are paper thin. Hardly surprising since so many are stuffed into a film not long enough to develop them.

The film is certainly less colourful than other MCU movies - however I didn’t see that as either good or bad.

The action scenes and fights are great. Especially Makari (actress and character criminally underused) battering Ikarus.

I can’t see any signs here of how a director having more control than any other Marvel movie.

It was not a bad movie but I was expecting something different, even usual, because of Zhao and all the various chatter how this film was a turning point. However, it was surprisingly lacklustre.

kerplun k

I disagree, I thought idea of a necessary genocide in order to continue, create and grow new life was an interesting concept and the idea that the Celestials were gods and weren’t capable of understanding the ethics of the process and to them this was just the circle of life. The Enterals essentially being supervisors in this process was an interesting story.

it’s only natural that after spending so much time on earth that you might grow an attachment, much like an undercover cop would with a gang they’ve infiltrated. To me there was no villains here, just different perspectives. Not only did this film look and feel different to other MCU films, but it was very nuanced as well and you have to credit Zhao with this.

johnny_ultimate

It’s simultaneously the most visually accomplished Marvel movie by a country mile (I’d go as far as saying it’s the only one that’s remotely visually interesting or appealing in any way) and the most turgid, sluggish mess from the studio yet.

I like Chloe Zhao and her style. It did not work at all here - her humanist style of storytelling clashing violently with the extraordinarily uninteresting lore and action. Felt like it was ten hours long, without any of the momentum or artistic intent that has seen me through actual ten hour long films.

fitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118801430#Comment_118801430

Some parts looked gorgeous, no doubt, but it was worse than early JJ Abrams lens-flare overuse for constantly doing character close-ups with the sun backlighting their head. Yeah, we get it, the light poking out looks cool. Took me out of the movie every time as it went on, and seemed amateurish tbh.

Useless Lump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118801399#Comment_118801399

I found the story very predictable.

I agree that after so much time on Earth there would be attachment but it didn’t happen in this film.

Five of them removed themselves from contact with human beings (I included Druig because although he took humans with him they were forced to and had their minds altered as were their descendants). Those that remained did nothing with their abilities to help people.

The Celestial destroys people by the billions - Ikarus murdered the mother figure and was willing to murder all of them and the entire human race. That makes them villains.

That they a different perspectives doesn’t make them not villains - Zemo, Red Skull, Ultron, Emperor Palpatine, etc - they all had perspectives too.

Can you explain how the film looked looked and felt different to other MCU films? And how it was nuanced? I really don’t see the influence of an indie film maker on it.

I really do want you to explain it because I am interested to know what you see that I don’t.

It is the same for The Batman. There are people on that thread that dislike the movie for various reasons and one or two who have the opposite opinion of me but I can’t understand how and would have like to hear why so that I can’t understand it.

I can normally understand why people like/dislike a film whether I I agree with them or not but in the case of Eternals and the new Batman I just can’t - and no one seems to be able to explain why they think Eternals is different, that the film has Zhao’s influence more that directors on other MCU movies.

Sugarlumps

I watched 20 or so minutes, really camp. How the fudge people call these films entertaining I'll never understand.

poppysee

I felt like critics were too harsh on the Eternals. It definitely wasn't the best or even among the top few MCU films but I didn't think it was that bad. There's definitely a lot of potential and the main issue was that there were just too many characters squeezed into such a short film.